RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (Full Version)

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CuriousLord -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 1:44:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

No - abortion is a constitutional right when the health of the mother is threatened by the pregnancy - mental health or otherwise.


When the health of the mother is threatened, sure.  Have no worries.. if I were able to set any law I'd like, I'd still never make one against abortion when it'd save the mother.  I value life.. both the mother's and the baby's.  While I'm against killing the baby for convinience, saving the mother's is very important.

Mental health, though?  You mean if the baby even just causes stress?  That's taking it way too far to me.  I can understand if killing the baby saves the mother's life, but killing it to avoid stress?


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Therefore, it does qualify as a medical act. Regardless of your personal feelings a propos abortion, it is a legal medical procedure.


Only when the mother's life is in danger. Otherwise, assuming it's legal, it's a medical procedure legally, as was putting leaches on a flu victim's skin.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

As to call the women monsters, I beg you to reconsider your choice of vocabulary: there are a lot of women on this site who have had abortions - your comment was nothing short of offensive.


I'm assuming you read my statement knowing my distaste for those who have abortions.  In this instance, I was referring to them as "monsters" for the sake of having been in prison in the first place, not specifically for the abortion.



kittinSol -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 1:50:10 PM)

Woah... you're judging an entire contigent of women for being 'monsters' because they are in prison? Isn't that stretching it a little? Seriously? Nearly half of all female prisonners are in jail because of fraud and other non-violent crimes . To label all of them 'monsters' is pretty extreme, CuriousLord.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/wopris.pdf



slaveboyforyou -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 2:24:47 PM)

quote:

Woah... you're judging an entire contigent of women for being 'monsters' because they are in prison? Isn't that stretching it a little? Seriously? Nearly half of all female prisonners are in jail because of fraud and other non-violent crimes . To label all of them 'monsters' is pretty extreme, CuriousLord. 


Have you ever been defrauded by someone?  I won't exactly call them monsters, but it isn't fun to have someone write you hot checks, or steal your personal info and ruin your credit.  It is a crime, and people should face a penalty for do it.  When you go to prison, it's not supposed to be a way for you to have an easy life.  It's for punishment, and to seperate criminals from those of us who play by the rules. 



kittinSol -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 2:26:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I won't exactly call them monsters (...).



So we agree [;)] .



laurell3 -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 2:28:38 PM)

LOL @ those of us that play by the rules.....wow....it's suprising how people here judge so much....do most of us play by the rules?  Do you know the difference between running a stop sign and getting an infraction ticket and running a stop sign and killing someone?  Bad luck.  Want to talk about assault and wiitwd?  Come on people, sometimes when people make stupid mistakes they learn from them, stereotypes about people with convictions aren't any more compelling than any other stereotype.  People in glass houses.....



CuriousLord -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 2:39:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Woah... you're judging an entire contigent of women for being 'monsters' because they are in prison? Isn't that stretching it a little? Seriously? Nearly half of all female prisonners are in jail because of fraud and other non-violent crimes . To label all of them 'monsters' is pretty extreme, CuriousLord.


Nearly half?  So you mean most of them have commited violent crimes?  Others have recklessly hurt others in non-violent manners?  Is stealing money really such a minor offense when people work so hard for it?

I mean, sure.  I'm sure there's a lot of people in prison who have done rather minor things, or even those who are entirely innocent.  Or guilty of things I wouldn't actually be upset with them for.

But a lot of them have.  So, while I'd hear an individual's story before judging them in specific, the general term works for me.



CuriousLord -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 2:44:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

LOL @ those of us that play by the rules.....wow....it's suprising how people here judge so much....do most of us play by the rules?  Do you know the difference between running a stop sign and getting an infraction ticket and running a stop sign and killing someone?  Bad luck.  Want to talk about assault and wiitwd?  Come on people, sometimes when people make stupid mistakes they learn from them, stereotypes about people with convictions aren't any more compelling than any other stereotype.  People in glass houses.....


Com'n, now.  You're confusing sterotypes with absolutes.



kittinSol -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 2:51:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

So, while I'd hear an individual's story before judging them in specific, the general term works for me.



You're happy to label a group of individuals with a derogatory term: to me, it's prejudice. If it works for you, fair enough; but expect others to call you up on it.



CuriousLord -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 2:56:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You're happy to label a group of individuals with a derogatory term: to me, it's prejudice. If it works for you, fair enough; but expect others to call you up on it.


It is a prejustice.  The human mind works off prejustices and generalizations.  This one will serve me well in life; why should I regret it?

The funny part is that, if I were born into a world where everyone's a child molester, I'd call them monsters, too.. and it'd be probably even more illy received, people talking of glass houses and the evils of sterotypes.

So, in the end, one must find their values and work off them.. not being controlled by what others think of their opinions.



laurell3 -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 3:08:33 PM)

Nah part of growing as a human being is questioning the validity of your beliefs and adapting them to reality.  Saying so it's a stereotype but it's what I think isn't compelling, it's silly.



CuriousLord -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 3:11:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Saying so it's a stereotype but it's what I think isn't compelling, it's silly.


Again, you're confusing sterotypes with absolutes.

I think people in prison are, generally, more likely to perform crimes (many of which I don't want done) than those who are around me.  We can debate if this is true or not, but I believe I can make my case pretty damn quickly. ;)

But, point being.. you're acting like I'm saying everyone in prison is a monster.  This is why I say you're confusing sterotypes and absolutes.



kittinSol -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 3:12:00 PM)

My human mind works by trying to figure things out after I have the information to process my understanding of them. If I have a pre-conceived idea over something, what is the point of reflection? My mind's already made up.

It's really quite something to argue in favour of prejudice [:D] .




laurell3 -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 3:12:46 PM)

I'm not confused at all CL.  I've actually encountered many people with felony convictions.  I know of what I speak.  Do you?   By the way call it a "prejustice" or whatever term makes you feel better Bill Clinton, it's still close-minded and judgemental and doesn't come close to applying to many people with felony convictions or people in prison.



CuriousLord -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 3:14:53 PM)

Have experience with felons?  No.  But I'm still pretty sure I can make my case with ease.  Would you like to give it a go?



laurell3 -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 3:16:03 PM)

Nah you're pretty convinced that your opinions don't bear examining.  The person that suffers for that is you, not me.



CuriousLord -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 3:17:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

Nah you're pretty convinced that your opinions don't bear examining.  The person that suffers for that is you, not me.


So I just offered to examine our respective opinions.  And you turned it down.  Then said I was the one who doesn't want to examine opinions?

Alright then.  Peace.



laurell3 -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 3:18:59 PM)

I'm a masochist, but beating my head against a brick wall ain't all that appealing to me [;)]



CuriousLord -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 3:20:02 PM)

However you excuse it, I suppose.

PS-  Actually, sorry.  I'm pretty quick to disregard stupidity. It's my ego.  But I would like to tell you something serious.

Sometimes, growing and examining your prejustices does feel like banging your head against a wall.  It's quite necessary if you hope to grow.  Please don't think you're necessarily right due to your age and time.  You still may be wrong, and I still may have a point.  And it may still feel like banging your head against a wall, because all of your reasons for believing you what do may not work.. they may just be in error, and that really does feel like banging your head against a wall.



laurell3 -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 3:22:17 PM)

I'm not a guy or fool CL, trying to taunt me into a debate doesn't work.  I'm fairly adept at picking my battles when it will only achieve results.



CuriousLord -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 3:24:45 PM)

A "battle" is a poor way of looking at it.  Examining one's views in earnest is a process of making points and such.

Forgive me, I normally don't make such a point of it.. it's just I'm taken by the irony of you telling me I'm the one who didn't want to examine his views.

I'll let it be.



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