Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Missouri must allow inmates abortions


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Missouri must allow inmates abortions Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/22/2008 7:33:29 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		ST. LOUIS - The state of Missouri must provide transportation to clinics for inmates who want to have an abortion, a federal appeals panel ruled Tuesday.

In 2005, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the state had to allow a specific inmate, listed as Jane Roe, to have an abortion after the state tried to end the practice of driving prisoners to clinics for elective abortions.

The American Civil Liberties Union then sought a federal ruling making the high court's decision a class-action on behalf of all imprisoned pregnant women in the state.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22790110

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/22/2008 7:42:56 PM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline 		Prisoners should have access to healthcare, in a civilised society.

Surrendering your liberty to the state, for a set period, as punishment (besides satisfying antiquated notions of "justice" and being utterly useless to inmates and the public), does not include surrendering one's health for permanent damage.


Z.


_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/22/2008 7:56:12 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Good for Missouri! Really, they don't have that much of a choice. If they tried to tell someone if they should have a baby or not, it opens up a whole can of legal worms. If they force a woman to carry a baby to term, that means it becomes (at least in part) their responsibility. If they demand an abortion, they end up taking a defacto stance that the government has the right to commit "murder" in the eyes of the religious types...  It's best just to let the woman make the choice.

Too bad they don't take that stance for every other woman in the US.

(in reply to Zensee)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/22/2008 8:14:45 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I don't really care, as long as they are not making the public pay for it.  I have to assume that these women got pregnant before they were sentenced.  Otherwise, that's an entirely different problem. 

(in reply to Zensee)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/22/2008 8:22:57 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		An incarcerated person still has the right to health care in American society.



_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/22/2008 9:02:59 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I don't really care, as long as they are not making the public pay for it.  I have to assume that these women got pregnant before they were sentenced.  Otherwise, that's an entirely different problem. 


When out on bond or bail, becoming pregnant is poor tactic to avoid being behind bars. Who want's to send a pregnant woman to prison? After all, possible fights, nutritional questions, and prisoner labor come into question on weither or not a woman should really be in prison if pregnant. Not for her wellbeing, but for that of the unborn child.

So you wish for the female inmate to have to pay for her own abortion? Would you also want her to pay for her own medical treatment, ultra sounds, and various test for wanting to keep the baby and give birth in prison? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. What should and shouldn't a prison be responsible for medical treatment wise with its inmates?   

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/22/2008 10:17:38 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		 
Inmates don't pay for their own medical care and  I can't see that changing.  How would they pay for it? Health care in the US isn't exactly cheap and they don't really work unless you call prison labor and the measely salary they get from it work which might cover the cost of a bottle of aspirin.

You'd be suprised how many of them get pregnant IN prison.  Yeah, the guard system ain't all it's cracked up to be.

The wellbeing of the unborn child is a sticky ongoing debate.  Many women's prisons have a program wherein the child stays with the mother IN PRISON up until a certain age.  I've always been rather skeptical of those programs personally especially those that allow it until toddler ages.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/22/2008 11:12:52 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Interesting.

Can you imagine the psychological ramifications of spending the first, most formative years of your life in prison ?

T

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/23/2008 12:00:28 AM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

I don't really care, as long as they are not making the public pay for it.  I have to assume that these women got pregnant before they were sentenced.  Otherwise, that's an entirely different problem. 




That is a VERY nieve assumption.   There have been a frightening number of cases of female inmates getting knocked up by male gaurds.    AND, of course, there is those cases of interesting events during visitation and congical (sp?) visits.







As for me, I'm ALL for the State paying for it regardless of when conception occurred.   An abortion is a heck of a lot cheaper than an inmate with a newborn child.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/23/2008 12:06:55 AM   
Asherdelampyr


Posts: 9556
Joined: 11/14/2006
From: The Desert
Status: offline 		Maybe im an asshole for suggesting it... but what kind of parent is a prison inmate gonna be anyway? I mean if someone is in prison for, lets say knocking over a liquor store and killing 5 people, do you really think they might win "Mommy of the year"?

_____________________________

Pirate King,

The nicest man you'll ever bleed for

Posting Help

Vitam Piratae Eligo

The Rainmaker

(in reply to Muttling)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/23/2008 1:44:51 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Maybe im an asshole for suggesting it... but what kind of parent is a prison inmate gonna be anyway? I mean if someone is in prison for, lets say knocking over a liquor store and killing 5 people, do you really think they might win "Mommy of the year"?


I'm honestly of the opinion also that it's really not a great place to be raised, however, there are many studies out there that show that breaking an infant away from the mother during the first few months of life is much worse for them.  Keep in mind there are parameters, they have to have only so much time left on their sentence, otherwise establishing a bond may be irrelevant, they can't have certain convictions, etc.  The mothers/um are separated from others and supervised.  I still have issues with this as a concept, but there are quite a few of these programs out there suprisingly.

There are also people in prison (probably a larger majority than murderers) that make stupid mistakes and learn from them.  I can see some benefit in continuining/encouraging family ties for them and there are programs for that also.  However the whole inside the prison thing bugs me.  It seems like we are punishing the young. 

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 1/23/2008 1:46:39 AM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Asherdelampyr)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/23/2008 2:28:50 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Does the ruling also provide for aftercare for these women? Having known a few ladies who had abortions - wanted them even (so they said at the time), I've seen the psychological distress that can occur afterwards. Combined with a prison setting I would suggest such distress would be likely heightened a great deal, and leaving them to cogitate in a cell on the whole thing would not be for the best. After all, we do want them to come out as healthy members of society able to contribute?

To my mind (being the nazi fascist that I am) it would make far more sense to ensure the issue the contraceptive pill to all female inmates from the off - meaning that becoming pregnant whilst incarcerated should very rarely occur. It would also hopefully reduce problems within the prison as I believe that for many suffering PMS etc, it provides relief? Certainly did for my ex!

And what of the inmates who get pregnant whilst in prison? I would suggest that a quick end could be brought to possible fraternisation with male guards by way of paternity tests etc. A positive result indicating a guard did the deed would result in instant dismissal and criminal charges.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/23/2008 2:51:51 AM   
Muttling


Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Does the ruling also provide for aftercare for these women? Having known a few ladies who had abortions - wanted them even (so they said at the time), I've seen the psychological distress that can occur afterwards. Combined with a prison setting I would suggest such distress would be likely heightened a great deal, and leaving them to cogitate in a cell on the whole thing would not be for the best. After all, we do want them to come out as healthy members of society able to contribute?

To my mind (being the nazi fascist that I am) it would make far more sense to ensure the issue the contraceptive pill to all female inmates from the off - meaning that becoming pregnant whilst incarcerated should very rarely occur. It would also hopefully reduce problems within the prison as I believe that for many suffering PMS etc, it provides relief? Certainly did for my ex!

And what of the inmates who get pregnant whilst in prison? I would suggest that a quick end could be brought to possible fraternisation with male guards by way of paternity tests etc. A positive result indicating a guard did the deed would result in instant dismissal and criminal charges.

E



Lots of GREAT points there!!!


My favorite woman of all time is my therapist.   (She's a wonderful gal, but pure vanilla.    She gave the obligitory smile when I explained my masochism to her, but her eyes were definitely bulging.  hehe).....Anyway......She once commented to me that she thought all women who have an abortion should get psychological after care as well.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/23/2008 3:05:18 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr

Maybe im an asshole for suggesting it... but what kind of parent is a prison inmate gonna be anyway? I mean if someone is in prison for, lets say knocking over a liquor store and killing 5 people, do you really think they might win "Mommy of the year"?


I'm honestly of the opinion also that it's really not a great place to be raised, however, there are many studies out there that show that breaking an infant away from the mother during the first few months of life is much worse for them. 


Can't we just kill them both? Wouldn't that be cheaper and better for society?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/23/2008 4:02:31 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:


That is a VERY nieve assumption.   There have been a frightening number of cases of female inmates getting knocked up by male gaurds.    AND, of course, there is those cases of interesting events during visitation and congical (sp?) visits.


No it's not.  I know what guards in prisons do, probably better than you do.  I double majored in history and criminal justice in college, and I had to visit 3 prisons to pass a corrections course.  I also have 2 family members that have done time in maximum security prisons.  I know exactly what goes on in there.  Yeah guards do shit like that all the time, and when they get caught they tend to get prosecuted for it.  They do here anyway.  They should be the ones forking over the cash for abortions. 

If a woman wants an abortion, than that's fine.  That's the law, and that's the way it is.  But that is not a necessary medical procedure any more than having a sex change operation or a breast augmentation, both of which are procedures inamtes try to get in prison.  If you want those procedures, than you should have to pay for them.  If you don't have money because you are in prison, than maybe you'll think about that the next time you're out and think about breaking the law.  Life isn't fair, and it's especially not supposed to be when you break the law. 

We have lots of rights, but that doesn't mean everyone should pay for you to exercise them.  You and I have the right to bear arms.   But we shouldn't expect the government to buy us a new gun.  We have the right to free speech, but that doesn't mean everyone gets their own taxpayer funded radio station.    

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 1/23/2008 4:06:21 AM >

(in reply to Muttling)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/23/2008 4:33:18 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

But that is not a necessary medical procedure any more than having a sex change operation or a breast augmentation, both of which are procedures inamtes try to get in prison. 


Gender reassignment procedures can be life saving treatments, albeit the general attitude seems to be that the world is benefitted from the many suicides which occur due to its unavailability.

Having said that though there are many each year who dont need it but fantasise about it, get it (because they can pay - which is a fine means of discerning who is to be treated) and then commit suicide.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/23/2008 6:01:23 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Somehow I'm having a hard time picturing infanticide as every being "good" for humanity personally.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/23/2008 6:02:56 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		So when chester the molester gets a visit from Jessie and his big white friend Be'na'd, he sashays down to the infirmary for a quickie d and c?????


Drs. Mayo

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/23/2008 6:03:10 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		nm

< Message edited by laurell3 -- 1/23/2008 6:04:51 AM >

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions - 1/23/2008 7:09:30 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I don't understand why this item is making the news. Healthcare is healthcare, so if a prisonner needs a medical intervention, the state has a duty of care towards that prisonner.

What's the big debate?

_____________________________



(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Missouri must allow inmates abortions Page: [1] 2 3 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094