Missouri must allow inmates abortions

Missouri must allow inmates abortions (Full Version)

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Level -> Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/22/2008 7:33:29 PM)
ST. LOUIS - The state of Missouri must provide transportation to clinics for inmates who want to have an abortion, a federal appeals panel ruled Tuesday. In 2005, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the state had to allow a specific inmate, listed as Jane Roe, to have an abortion after the state tried to end the practice of driving prisoners to clinics for elective abortions. The American Civil Liberties Union then sought a federal ruling making the high court's decision a class-action on behalf of all imprisoned pregnant women in the state. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22790110

Zensee -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/22/2008 7:42:56 PM)
Prisoners should have access to healthcare, in a civilised society. Surrendering your liberty to the state, for a set period, as punishment (besides satisfying antiquated notions of "justice" and being utterly useless to inmates and the public), does not include surrendering one's health for permanent damage. Z.

bipolarber -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/22/2008 7:56:12 PM)
Good for Missouri! Really, they don't have that much of a choice. If they tried to tell someone if they should have a baby or not, it opens up a whole can of legal worms. If they force a woman to carry a baby to term, that means it becomes (at least in part) their responsibility. If they demand an abortion, they end up taking a defacto stance that the government has the right to commit "murder" in the eyes of the religious types... It's best just to let the woman make the choice. Too bad they don't take that stance for every other woman in the US.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/22/2008 8:14:45 PM)
I don't really care, as long as they are not making the public pay for it. I have to assume that these women got pregnant before they were sentenced. Otherwise, that's an entirely different problem.

Vendaval -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/22/2008 8:22:57 PM)
An incarcerated person still has the right to health care in American society.

FangsNfeet -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/22/2008 9:02:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I don't really care, as long as they are not making the public pay for it. I have to assume that these women got pregnant before they were sentenced. Otherwise, that's an entirely different problem. When out on bond or bail, becoming pregnant is poor tactic to avoid being behind bars. Who want's to send a pregnant woman to prison? After all, possible fights, nutritional questions, and prisoner labor come into question on weither or not a woman should really be in prison if pregnant. Not for her wellbeing, but for that of the unborn child. So you wish for the female inmate to have to pay for her own abortion? Would you also want her to pay for her own medical treatment, ultra sounds, and various test for wanting to keep the baby and give birth in prison? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. What should and shouldn't a prison be responsible for medical treatment wise with its inmates?

laurell3 -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/22/2008 10:17:38 PM)
Inmates don't pay for their own medical care and I can't see that changing. How would they pay for it? Health care in the US isn't exactly cheap and they don't really work unless you call prison labor and the measely salary they get from it work which might cover the cost of a bottle of aspirin. You'd be suprised how many of them get pregnant IN prison. Yeah, the guard system ain't all it's cracked up to be. The wellbeing of the unborn child is a sticky ongoing debate. Many women's prisons have a program wherein the child stays with the mother IN PRISON up until a certain age. I've always been rather skeptical of those programs personally especially those that allow it until toddler ages.

Termyn8or -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/22/2008 11:12:52 PM)
Interesting. Can you imagine the psychological ramifications of spending the first, most formative years of your life in prison ? T

Muttling -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 12:00:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou I don't really care, as long as they are not making the public pay for it. I have to assume that these women got pregnant before they were sentenced. Otherwise, that's an entirely different problem. That is a VERY nieve assumption. There have been a frightening number of cases of female inmates getting knocked up by male gaurds. AND, of course, there is those cases of interesting events during visitation and congical (sp?) visits. As for me, I'm ALL for the State paying for it regardless of when conception occurred. An abortion is a heck of a lot cheaper than an inmate with a newborn child.

Asherdelampyr -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 12:06:55 AM)
Maybe im an asshole for suggesting it... but what kind of parent is a prison inmate gonna be anyway? I mean if someone is in prison for, lets say knocking over a liquor store and killing 5 people, do you really think they might win "Mommy of the year"?

laurell3 -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 1:44:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr Maybe im an asshole for suggesting it... but what kind of parent is a prison inmate gonna be anyway? I mean if someone is in prison for, lets say knocking over a liquor store and killing 5 people, do you really think they might win "Mommy of the year"? I'm honestly of the opinion also that it's really not a great place to be raised, however, there are many studies out there that show that breaking an infant away from the mother during the first few months of life is much worse for them. Keep in mind there are parameters, they have to have only so much time left on their sentence, otherwise establishing a bond may be irrelevant, they can't have certain convictions, etc. The mothers/um are separated from others and supervised. I still have issues with this as a concept, but there are quite a few of these programs out there suprisingly. There are also people in prison (probably a larger majority than murderers) that make stupid mistakes and learn from them. I can see some benefit in continuining/encouraging family ties for them and there are programs for that also. However the whole inside the prison thing bugs me. It seems like we are punishing the young.

LadyEllen -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 2:28:50 AM)
Does the ruling also provide for aftercare for these women? Having known a few ladies who had abortions - wanted them even (so they said at the time), I've seen the psychological distress that can occur afterwards. Combined with a prison setting I would suggest such distress would be likely heightened a great deal, and leaving them to cogitate in a cell on the whole thing would not be for the best. After all, we do want them to come out as healthy members of society able to contribute? To my mind (being the nazi fascist that I am) it would make far more sense to ensure the issue the contraceptive pill to all female inmates from the off - meaning that becoming pregnant whilst incarcerated should very rarely occur. It would also hopefully reduce problems within the prison as I believe that for many suffering PMS etc, it provides relief? Certainly did for my ex! And what of the inmates who get pregnant whilst in prison? I would suggest that a quick end could be brought to possible fraternisation with male guards by way of paternity tests etc. A positive result indicating a guard did the deed would result in instant dismissal and criminal charges. E

Muttling -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 2:51:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Does the ruling also provide for aftercare for these women? Having known a few ladies who had abortions - wanted them even (so they said at the time), I've seen the psychological distress that can occur afterwards. Combined with a prison setting I would suggest such distress would be likely heightened a great deal, and leaving them to cogitate in a cell on the whole thing would not be for the best. After all, we do want them to come out as healthy members of society able to contribute? To my mind (being the nazi fascist that I am) it would make far more sense to ensure the issue the contraceptive pill to all female inmates from the off - meaning that becoming pregnant whilst incarcerated should very rarely occur. It would also hopefully reduce problems within the prison as I believe that for many suffering PMS etc, it provides relief? Certainly did for my ex! And what of the inmates who get pregnant whilst in prison? I would suggest that a quick end could be brought to possible fraternisation with male guards by way of paternity tests etc. A positive result indicating a guard did the deed would result in instant dismissal and criminal charges. E Lots of GREAT points there!!! My favorite woman of all time is my therapist. (She's a wonderful gal, but pure vanilla. She gave the obligitory smile when I explained my masochism to her, but her eyes were definitely bulging. hehe).....Anyway......She once commented to me that she thought all women who have an abortion should get psychological after care as well.

Level -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 3:05:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: laurell3 quote: ORIGINAL: Asherdelampyr Maybe im an asshole for suggesting it... but what kind of parent is a prison inmate gonna be anyway? I mean if someone is in prison for, lets say knocking over a liquor store and killing 5 people, do you really think they might win "Mommy of the year"? I'm honestly of the opinion also that it's really not a great place to be raised, however, there are many studies out there that show that breaking an infant away from the mother during the first few months of life is much worse for them. Can't we just kill them both? Wouldn't that be cheaper and better for society?

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 4:02:31 AM)
quote: That is a VERY nieve assumption. There have been a frightening number of cases of female inmates getting knocked up by male gaurds. AND, of course, there is those cases of interesting events during visitation and congical (sp?) visits. No it's not. I know what guards in prisons do, probably better than you do. I double majored in history and criminal justice in college, and I had to visit 3 prisons to pass a corrections course. I also have 2 family members that have done time in maximum security prisons. I know exactly what goes on in there. Yeah guards do shit like that all the time, and when they get caught they tend to get prosecuted for it. They do here anyway. They should be the ones forking over the cash for abortions. If a woman wants an abortion, than that's fine. That's the law, and that's the way it is. But that is not a necessary medical procedure any more than having a sex change operation or a breast augmentation, both of which are procedures inamtes try to get in prison. If you want those procedures, than you should have to pay for them. If you don't have money because you are in prison, than maybe you'll think about that the next time you're out and think about breaking the law. Life isn't fair, and it's especially not supposed to be when you break the law. We have lots of rights, but that doesn't mean everyone should pay for you to exercise them. You and I have the right to bear arms. But we shouldn't expect the government to buy us a new gun. We have the right to free speech, but that doesn't mean everyone gets their own taxpayer funded radio station.

LadyEllen -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 4:33:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou But that is not a necessary medical procedure any more than having a sex change operation or a breast augmentation, both of which are procedures inamtes try to get in prison. Gender reassignment procedures can be life saving treatments, albeit the general attitude seems to be that the world is benefitted from the many suicides which occur due to its unavailability. Having said that though there are many each year who dont need it but fantasise about it, get it (because they can pay - which is a fine means of discerning who is to be treated) and then commit suicide. E

laurell3 -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 6:01:23 AM)
Somehow I'm having a hard time picturing infanticide as every being "good" for humanity personally.

mnottertail -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 6:02:56 AM)
So when chester the molester gets a visit from Jessie and his big white friend Be'na'd, he sashays down to the infirmary for a quickie d and c????? Drs. Mayo

laurell3 -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 6:03:10 AM)
nm

kittinSol -> RE: Missouri must allow inmates abortions (1/23/2008 7:09:30 AM)
I don't understand why this item is making the news. Healthcare is healthcare, so if a prisonner needs a medical intervention, the state has a duty of care towards that prisonner. What's the big debate?

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