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A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 8:23:43 AM   
Shammon5


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Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Ohio
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I am hoping that this is in the correct forum. I didn't want to post it in the sub/slave forum because I realize that there are tops and Dom/mes who might also call themselves "masochists." Although I have never met any myself, one thing I have come to learn in this lifestyle is that variety runs rampant. So I pose this question to anyone. I apologize if this is the incorrect area.

That being said, I will move on to my question.

I believe that I am a masochist, and recently I have been trying to determine what exactly "makes me" this way, as in what qualities in myself would I call "masochistic." I have heard masochism described by other people here and on other sites that masochism means that you enjoy pain, or specifically that "pain feels good." This is the part where I am confused. You see, when Ian-sama and I play, it offen incorporates elements of pain. I am caned, whipped, flogges, strapped, etc, all of which are "painful." When I am being whipped, though, I don't think "oh that feels so good" as each hit falls. The blows always hurt. Even so, I always get very, very wet, and when it is over I eagerly look forward to the next time.

I'll try to give an example (I won't be graphic, I promise). We've recently had a break in playing due to the fact that we moved houses recently and school started back up after winter break. The other day we got to play for the first time in several weeks, and Ian-sama used the belt on me as a warm-up (we like to warm up pretty hard sometimes). Since it had been such a long time, it was a little overwhelming, and halfway through I was thinking "oh no, I don't know if I can take this this hard today." However, when he stopped and went to get another toy, I reached under me and found that I was really wet, even though I was experiencing sensations that I thought of as pain. This bolstered me somewhat, and we had a great time with the single-tail whip afterward.

When we spoke about this yesterday, I told Ian-sama that I think he could whip me to tears cold, with no warm up, and I'd probably get wet just thinking about the next time. But I still feel the sensations as "pain." Afterward I am very happy and cuddly, and I love watching my marks fade over the next few days, and I revel in my sore bum as I squirm in my seat in Japanese class. It's kind of a paradox, and leaves me at a loss.

So, I guess my question to the other masochists is this: (1) When you are subjected to sensations that could be described as "painful," do you feel them as "pain" or as "pleasure." Does it "hurt" or does it feel good like a massage or something? (2) To the submissives/slaves, does the fact that you are submitting make pain an enjoyable experience, or the sensations themselves?

I know this is not very well written, but it is very hard to pose a question when I, myself, am confused about what I'm asking. Please feel free to ask any questions. I look forward to your responses.

Respectfully,
Shawna
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 8:28:28 AM   
Bamslilgirl


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When I myself am subjected to pain like that, it comes across to me as both pain & pleasure. I'm not sure what the technical definition of a masochist is, but the pain most likely affects each of U/us differently. As long as it's pleasurable to you, hell, go for it!!

(in reply to Shammon5)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 8:32:55 AM   
laurell3


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Masochism does not necessarily mean the ability to transfer all pain to erotic pain. I think most have a threshold where the pain is no longer erotic, however, bear in mind nonmasochists may not find any pain erotic.  I certainly don't translate all pain into pleasure, although that has increased over time dramatically, however, some of  the pain that I experience as pain is arousing to me even when extreme and I always mentally enjoy the challenge and find it pleasurable as well as the service.  On the rare occasion it's not pleasurable (which does happen with some types of stimulation that I have a low tolerance for) my body still betrays me and is aroused even if my mind isn't and the service is pleasurable.

I'm not sure that a) made sense or b) answered your question, but it's how I find myself reacting to pain.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 8:36:51 AM   
gypsygrl


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For the most part, the pain hurts...if it doesn't I don't call it pain.  There's alot of things Master does that others would consider painful but they don't feel  that way to me: they feel more like massages.  But, pain hurts, and if something's hurting, I call it pain.

That having been said, if it hurts just enough and in the right way, I have an orgasm.  Master knows how to do it.  I don't really get off on what most people consider pleasure.  I don't even really feel those sensations.  I get off on pain and pain hurts.  And its usually in that moment when I think I cant stand the pain anymore that I have an orgasm.  Also, if I can't orgasm for some reason (I'm bottomming for someone I don't know or I'm at a party and don't feel comfortable) everything goes to hell--it stops being fun and I get pissed or have a panic attack or something like that. 

It is confusing to try to explain it:  I'm just not happy unless I'm miserable.

_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to Shammon5)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 8:39:17 AM   
kyraofMists


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shammon5
(1) When you are subjected to sensations that could be described as "painful," do you feel them as "pain" or as "pleasure." Does it "hurt" or does it feel good like a massage or something?


Yes  *g*

Some sensations just hurt and I do not like the way it feels.  Other sensations hurt and I love the way it feels.  Then there are sensations that others would percieve as painful but are not for me (clothespins/zippers).

The type of sensation, the place on my body, the time of month and my mental state all play a part in it.  As a note, I don't like massages unless they are very light; mostly they just annoy me.

quote:

(2) To the submissives/slaves, does the fact that you are submitting make pain an enjoyable experience, or the sensations themselves?


Yes.  Sometimes what makes the experience fun is that I know he is enjoying it.  I detest having my nipples flicked, but he loves it so I can't help but laugh when he does it.  It doesn't make the pain enjoyable, but it makes the interaction with him enjoyable, subtle but distinct difference. 

These are my perspectives.  I don't consider myself to be much of a masochists, but others have disagreed with me on that.  I am much more of a sensation slut  *g*

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 8:39:59 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

(1) When you are subjected to sensations that could be described as "painful," do you feel them as "pain" or as "pleasure." Does it "hurt" or does it feel good like a massage or something?


both.  sometimes it hurts so good this slave is brought to orgasm.

quote:

(2) To the submissives/slaves, does the fact that you are submitting make pain an enjoyable experience, or the sensations themselves?


both...and it is incredibly fun for Master that His slave is wired that way.

(in reply to Shammon5)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 8:43:50 AM   
MollyTroubletail


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I'm like yourself, the painful sensations do hurt. The arousal that comes with it helps me to take more pain than if I'm unaroused. I think the eroticism of it comes from the idea that I'm being used for his pleasure, that I am submitting to this difficult thing, and other reasons related to these ones which I'm having trouble findig words for right now. The pain, in and of itself and out of context of power exchange, is not arousing for me at all.

(in reply to Shammon5)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 8:43:56 AM   
LadyLynx


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I find it to be mostly cathartic myself.  Though an erotic spanking mmmmmmmmm, oh yeah even the thought of that can make me wet.  OP don't worry about it, hon. just enjoy it! **winks**

_____________________________

Our community maybe openminded as a whole, but it is still made up of individuals who bring in their own opinions,baggage and agendas!

Known as SwitchWitch in my local community,and on IRC Bondage.

I also go by the nic SwitchWitch on MDS.

(in reply to laurell3)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 8:58:59 AM   
soul2share


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Your timing is impeccable....just last night, I had my first experience with a caning.....it was totally unbelieveable!  Up until the experience, I would have never identified as a Masochist, but apparently, I am one!

Yes, the pain was present, but it put my head in a totally different place than my body...not subspace as I've heard it described, but rather capable of separating each sensation.  There was very little warm up at all, I know I was thinking "OMG!!!!  He has to STOP NOW!!!!", but i didn't have any intention of safewording.....and each time he stopped, i begged for more.....I have welts, deep welts all over my ass, some minor skin breakage, and I couldn't roll over in my sleep without waking up....not even trying to sit today!  The pain....well, it sweeps me off in waves...i get used to the intensity,then he ups it....and it starts all over again.  He varied from his hand, to a flogger, then the cane....somewhere in the mix was a crop.....when it was all over, I couldn't move......it was like I was suspended someplace, just floating along...and I haven't slept that good in months! 

What makes the experience different for me is the location of the blows.....on my ass, I can take pretty much anything, but move down 1/2 an inch to my thighs, or try to use anything BUT a flogger on my back, and it's a whole different story!  While I can handle say a 14 on my ass, I can't handle much beyond a 1 on any other part of my lower body.  On my back, with the flogger, I'd say maybe a 5 or 6. 

Pain and pleasure meld together until one is almost impossible to distinguish from the other.  But it seems that I crave both.....but i also must have both......pain without pleasure simply pisses me off, and it has already cost me one set of soft restraints! 

I so understand your "confusion"...right now, I'm trying to sort through the same thing.....last night's session truly opened my eyes about the levels of pain vs. pleasure.  I'm just going to ride along and let it take me to wherever I end up.....gonna be one hell of a ride! 

_____________________________

I have to stop saying "How stupid can you be?"...people are starting to take it as a challenge!

*Not a fuck was given.*

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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 8:59:21 AM   
Shammon5


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From: Ohio
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Thank you everyone who has replied so far. I love reading everyone's replies, and it's good to hear that I'm not totally weird!  I do think that since it is difficult submitting to it does play a factor, like it's a challenge. Ian-sama's single tail whip scares the **** out of me, but I get through the scariness and the pain because I know that after every dozen or so blows, he gently strokes the welts and caresses me. I think that looking forward to this opposite sensation really turns me on, and helps associate the pain with a pleasurable experience. 

(in reply to LadyLynx)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 9:10:11 AM   
soul2share


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Shammon.....

I was terrified of the cane also.....I still couldn't tell you why I bought the damn thing, other than some sick sense of curiousity.  Now, I can't wait to have it used on me again.....maybe not TODAY....but again.....and again!   You're braver than I am tho....whips are something that I don't think I could take on.....

_____________________________

I have to stop saying "How stupid can you be?"...people are starting to take it as a challenge!

*Not a fuck was given.*

(in reply to Shammon5)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 9:36:44 AM   
chellekitty


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i don't know off the top of my head what the text book definition of a masochist is, however i do know that in this lifestyle we do not often use the text book, or dictionary definition for many things...i know that i identify as a masochist and i enjoy both types of play...

1) "typical" pain play that you hear people talk aobut, see at play parties...where, what would be described as pain input sensations - flogging, paddling, spanking, canning, etc. - feel good to the bottom and don't go past the pain threshold of the bottom, the goal of this type of play is usually to get an endorphin rush (that floaty feeling), and nothing more...that doesn't mean anything bad, it just is what it is...

2) the not-so-"typical" pain play, i've heard called "playing with pain for pain's sake"...there is usually no conversion of pain to erotic pain to pleasure in this type of play...it just fucking hurts....the thing about this type of play for me, is it is a lot more mental than almost every other kind of play out there...the person doing this kind of pain play on me has to make me hurt without it being pleasureable (physical), make me not want them to stop (mental) and i have to be able to trust them not to abuse this situation (emotional)...oh on top of that, with me, it usually opens up this spiritual link, that people may or may not believe in, that is very intense and must remain open through out the experience for it to be a good one (spiritual).....it is not a simple experience, playing with pain for pain's sake...but it is very fulfilling when it is done right...

chelle


_____________________________

One thing I know: the only ones among you who will be really happy are those who will have sought and found how to serve. ~Albert Schweitzer

(in reply to soul2share)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 9:47:43 AM   
littlebitxxx


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Pain is pain is pain is pain is pain....and it all freakin hurts!   lol    That said, for me there are different types and levels of pain and when put together with mindset and emotions at the time, produce varying levels of reaction.  And yes, the masochism/pain tolerance/whatever you call it can become quite addictive I think because of the chemical changes in the body.  When the endorphins release and you fly away, it triggers all the feel-goods that you want to happen again and again.  Sometimes it is the pain, sometimes it is the euphoria that you crave.

Mindset has quite a bit to do with it I think.  Talking with my man last night about this I tried to explain.  He is just learning the flogger (and doing quite well at it too :) so going into a scene with him I know I will expect straight pain, I may or may not go into subspace with it, but I don't care.  I like the pain, he likes to practice, it's all good.  Now, if it were another Dom with whom I've played and I know has many years of experience, I will go into the scene in the mindset of flying.  I will expect different results.  And that's where the pain becomes pleasurable and the tolerance threshhold drastically increases.  I find I can't take as much if I'm not able to fly too.

Technique has a lot to do with it.  If it is just an out and out flogging (or caning or cropping), it will be just out and out pain, sometimes with flying sometimes not.  If he turns it into a pleasure experience along with touches and gropes and fingers and toys and vibs and and and stuff <wink>, it can help equate the pain with pleasure.  That's how I learned in the beginning, it was all done together.  Methinks that is where the craving or addiction comes in.  No human (personal opinion) really likes pain just by itself, it's all the other stuff that is associated with it...the arousal, the orgasms, the endorphins.

As others have said, it's hard to explain unless ya been there.  And now, need more caffeine!

_____________________________

There is no such thing as can't unless it is followed by yet

It is the meaningless little acts that become meaningful in the doing.

The people that mind don't matter and the people that matter don't mind.

(in reply to soul2share)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 10:14:42 AM   
DominaRapport


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I register pain as just that, pain, what attracts me is the intensity that comes with it. There is pain but there is a great deal more. Suspense and fear and the release of being pushed past your own self control; those are the things I enjoy most, not the pain itself. The context in which the pain is given is also a factor on if it is enjoyed or not. For this reason I don't think I qualify as a pain slut or hardcore masochist. It's the chemical release the brain produces that I get off on, from fear, pain, intense experience or emotion period. Maybe that is the essence of masochists, but for me I still seem to distinguish between my skin breaking, and the release of adrenaline into my body, they don't blend really, the adrenaline will help mask the pain, but it still hurts once the adrenaline is gone.

(in reply to littlebitxxx)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 12:39:41 PM   
lateralist1


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I think I may well have been a masochist.
I have always hurt myself in various ways.
Pleasure/pain but not sexual pleasure.
I don't have anything to numb the pain at the dentist.
I can seperate and box the painful sensations in my mind.
When I found out about BDSM I became a bottom. I called myself a sub I knew no better.
I experienced quite a lot of pain over a period of time.
The culmination was the experience of a single tail.
Six strokes during which I vowed I would never put myself in that position again.
Twenty mins later I asked for more. After which I vowed the same.
Later I was told by the top that in twenty years it was the most significant/painful thing he had dealt out.
Six very deep wealts the last drew blood.
Since becoming a Domme because of my natural feelings of authority and discovering I am a sexual sadist the need for painful experiences has diminished.
I can still stand pain but have little need to inflict it on myself.
I give this information because it may be useful to someone.
I repeat my masochism was not sexual at all.
I know that because my sadism is.

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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 12:41:46 PM   
collaredncontent


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From: GA, USA.
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I consider myself a masochist but that doesn't mean I enjoy all types of pain. A good example would be the headache I am having today. I don't spare the pain pills just because I label myself as a masochist, nor do I jump for joy when I get the flu. I believe it is a personal label and not one you should try and 'fit'. My meaning is that I wont pretend to be enjoying this splitting headache for fear that someone will call me out as not being a 'true' masochist for not enjoying it. When my Master gets out the rod I get excited and enjoy the marks left by it, though there are times DURING where I'd rather not be in so much pain but the end result is always worth it. 

(in reply to DominaRapport)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 1:04:03 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shammon5









So, I guess my question to the other masochists is this: (1) When you are subjected to sensations that could be described as "painful," do you feel them as "pain" or as "pleasure." Does it "hurt" or does it feel good like a massage or something? (2) To the submissives/slaves, does the fact that you are submitting make pain an enjoyable experience, or the sensations themselves?


1 ........of course i feel it as pain and i agree with your experience that when there has been a gap in play, tolerance of pain decreses and sensitivity returns and so does craving....all the same terms as used for addiction. i have an addiction to pain.


2 there are many many types of pain: hot, burning, sharp, abrasive, cutting, scalding, bruising, hard, soft, recursive, dull, throbbing, breaking, sticking, twisted, pulled, pinched, pushed, needled, stretched, and of course electro (mmmm). For me one type of pain can be made null and void by another and if two or three or more types of pain are present at the same time then my awareness switches from one to the next making my tolerance of one type of pain increase....

3....i do not submit to pain very well and yet i love the take down, i love having my psychological arrogance curtailed by 'controlled pain' and what i mean by that is that the control is within the deverer and i am very acutely aware of the difference between abuse and domination.

4.....interestingly i have a pathetically low pain threshold for my own aches and pains like toothache, or joint pain or ear ache and headaches i absolutely hate. But pain inflicted from another is the same as attention, is the same as love for me. There are no doubts for me that pain and love were co-existent and associated always together during childhood.....and mixed messaging also meant that as a child i never knew which i was going to get. Comments like: ooh i just love you you little devil whilst pulling and twisting my cheeks, slapping my face out of the blue and caning and the threat of the cane as a child...there is no doubt that all of that and many more acts pf depravity experienced as a child form part of my repertoire of pleasure....


(in reply to Shammon5)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 1:05:14 PM   
slavesunshine


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I agree with the other posting, "pain is pain is pain." We all have different tolerances. 
I love to feel the pain of Master's singletail, canes, floggers, etc... Yes it is painful, but there is something about the pain that puts me into a different place. I can say though when I am feeling the pain of punishment it is different for me, that is a pain I never look forward to or enjoy getting. I think that it is a mind thing.



_____________________________

slavesunshine

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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 1:06:29 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lateralist1


I repeat my masochism was not sexual at all.
I know that because my sadism is.

got it and thank you......

(in reply to lateralist1)
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RE: A Question for Masochists - 1/24/2008 1:14:54 PM   
Shawn1066


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Joined: 10/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shammon5

So, I guess my question to the other masochists is this: (1) When you are subjected to sensations that could be described as "painful," do you feel them as "pain" or as "pleasure." Does it "hurt" or does it feel good like a massage or something?

(2) To the submissives/slaves, does the fact that you are submitting make pain an enjoyable experience, or the sensations themselves?




1.  Pain is pain.  It's painful.  It hurts.  It's also erotic and sexually arousing.  The pain has to be in the right context for it to be erotic, of course.  I don't get aroused when I stub my toe getting out of bed or anything.

2.  It's the submission moreso than the pain, but the sensations certainly play a big part.  I'm just saying the connection has to be there.  I couldn't really be masochistic at all if I was being played with by a random person.  It has to be somebody, like my Owner, that I love.



(in reply to Shammon5)
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