RE: BDSM SNOBS

RE: BDSM SNOBS (Full Version)

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Justme696 -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 4:54:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist quote: IF people see this knowledge and you communicate it nicely, then you get the respect deserved. I believe we have tangled over this before. No one deserves respect. Respect is earned. that is an opinion....indeed we talked about it...but you mis the main point I am making..it is not about the definition of respect. btw is getting respect from some one, not earning it???

DesFIP -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 4:55:44 AM)
If I was interested in learning to play golf, I wouldn't show up on the golf course with a brand new set of clubs, dressed in the right outfit, and proceed to make everyone else's day misery by not knowing what I was doing. And if I did do such a thing, I would deserve all the comments I got about stupid newbies slowing up play. Instead I would take lessons with the pro and accept his advice as to when to play so as not to hold everyone else up. Here or at a public dungeon is no different. Do your homework, nobody else has the responsibility to ruining their evening to teach you. Because the truth is that those who want to learn, here or elsewhere, will quickly identify what they want to learn and from whom, and go ask that person for help. The ones who don't ask for help, won't accept it, and will get bitchy when you point out to them their mistakes. There have been many newbies who don't get put down simply because they don't come in swaggering, pretending they know everything, and proceed to tell everyone else the one twue way. In a nutshell, act like an idiot and people will treat you like one. Act like a modest person who is interested in others and they'll be interested in you. You get what you give in this world.

Kalista07 -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 4:56:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist No one *deserves* respect. Respect is earned. i'm just pretty grateful people aren't walking around all day giving me what i deserve.....shudders at the thought

IrishMist -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:00:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist No one *deserves* respect. Respect is earned. i'm just pretty grateful people aren't walking around all day giving me what i deserve.....shudders at the thought Kalista I will *gladly* give you anything you want; deserved or not LMAO[8D]

Kalista07 -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:02:42 AM)
HEH.....Really???? Promises.....promises.....promises......

IrishMist -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:03:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 HEH.....Really???? Promises.....promises.....promises...... Uh huh tassles and all [:D]

Dnomyar -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:04:11 AM)
Puts on my green pointy ears and joins all the other yoda's in here. To the op it is better to run across a snob once in a while that for us to be all clones.

CNJDom -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:05:21 AM)
Goodness! There can be (and SHOULD be) books written on this subject. Unfortunately for some, this is like an exercise in karaoke mentality. In karaoke, there are only those that CAN, those that CAN'T, and those that DON'T KNOW they can't... Before you come up on stage here, it would really be good to assess where you're at in all this. There are those who truly get it, very experienced and masterful either in their Dominance or submission and do not have the need to shove it in other's faces (there's some sin involved there somewhere for that), be rude or abusive to others wether they be novice or experienced to whatever degree. We'd all like to aspire to that standard I hope...maybe I'm being to optimistic. Then there are those who are new to the scene, looking to learn (optimistic yes!), and give an honest go of it...Bravo to y'all! It's an exciting time of discovery and we as a community have historically trained those new to the scene with the same desires as those more experienced to learn the proper way, the safe way, the logically consentual way (We have a code of conduct that is not only true to the BDSM world, but to the human-race as well...and if you can't be civil to your fellow man (There's a "Golden Rule" in there somewhere), then how can you be true to yourself as well? Now here's the sad part: There are those that believe that laurels have fallen from heaven to alight upon them. Oh yes, and you know who you are! Above mankind, humankind, above the very God's themselves...you know: it's good to have a high self-esteem of one's self, but megalomania is not really apart of that realm I hate to tell you. And it is this group of people that need to hear this message the most, and yet will hear the least. These people think they know it all, are secretly unhappy in their self-image and feel that if you force this other image on others, then it is true and others will accept it. Hmmmm...dictators, tyrants, and bullies all fall short of their self-image not being happy with one's station in life. Think about it...just once. Take a good look at those around you, and see in their shoes if your attitude is commendable or should be condemned. Will you really get it? We all can only hope (or sit through a few really AWFUL songs! ... karaoke world remember?) For those that are working on or are happy with their place in this lifestyle growing naturally, you people are fine and have nothing to worry about, you novices: learn from others and grow and be prosper! And for the pretentious, take a good look at how you affect others before you act rude and obtrusive towards others...it's not pretty and no one appreciates it.

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:07:05 AM)
i hate to tell you this, OP, but you're wasting your breath. why should the kink lifestyle be any different from the fashion, golf etc (the examples you used)? i'm a music/band critic and i guess that would make me a "snob" too since i berate (sometimes) bands/musicians about their music 2 to 3 nights a week ...telling them how bad (or good) their set was at the venue. it's my job and i get paid to review the good, bad, and downright ugly of the music scene - not every night is going to be A-list awesome in my notes. believe me, i have walked out on a number of bands because they were that terrible. so my question to you again - why should BDSM be any different or special from the rest of the world? some newbies don't have the time and patience in wanting to be coached especially if some of them are young dominants. from my pov - some want even in fact demand respect, "on your knees now, bitch" type of attitude claiming they had "years" of experience. despite discounting the "years" of experience in my mind but i wouldn't call spanking and/or tying a few x-girlfriends in HS qualifies. then again that's my opinion. if you haven't noticed, this is an adult website not kindergarten. you cannot hand hold every single newbie that graces this place. each of us had to grow our own thick skin and take the flames/punches head on. if you cannot take criticism well or don't like the opinions offered, then you should find a site where there other like-minded people. sheeesh - i need to turn off the brain now and find some coffee - STAT!

IrishMist -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:07:56 AM)
quote: And for the pretentious, take a good look at how you affect others before you act rude and obtrusive towards others...it's not pretty and no one appreciates it. It's a good thing then that I care little what others think about me. [:D] I'll say it again. If speaking honestly and not beating about the bush means that I am a snob by the definition of the op...then hell yea...I'll take being a snob anyday.

bipolarber -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:31:28 AM)
To the OP: Yes, there are BDSM snobs, as you have so eloquently written, there are also snobs in just about every feild. However, in BDSM, there are also "gateway" groups. These are organizations that are specifically geared to give a place for the newcomer. Some people look upon these gateway groups as "the kid's table" at Thanksgiving, but I feel that comparison is unfounded. I tend to prefer these groups simply because it isn't always the "same old thing" or "the same old people" from party to party. And if you don't enjoy showing off in front of a crowd of new folks, either by doing a demo, or just playing intensely, then you aren't much of an exhibitionist. Yes, there are snobs in BDSM. They're rather stolid, boring and uninteresting. (Just like everywhere else.)

thetammyjo -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:44:19 AM)
While helping out novices is a wonderful idea, I've done it many times in repayment for the advice and mentorship I got, it is something, once more, curbed by meatlife realities. Time and distance can seriously limits ones ability to be helpful. One's philosophy can as well. Personally if I can't meet a person regularly I don't feel like I can be a very useful mentor. I can offer generic advice and opinion via my book reviews for that. Money can be a concern for others. I've be privileged enough to meet several very experienced "experts" over the years. Some ask for fees to give talks to groups or conventions, some merely ask to have their expenses covered. Oddly the ones who only ask for expenses are denigrated as "doing it for the money". Sorry, but most of these people, most of us, are not independently wealthy. Expenses must be covered. On a personal level this likely means that someone you want to learn from will require you to come to them just as you would go to a school or a church or a clinic to get advice -- some of those places charge you money too. I also think that a general compatibility of philosophies is necessary for useful assistance. Someone who thought all women are naturally submissive or that only men who are cross-dressed can be submissive would not be someone I could mentor -- there would not be enough common ground to work with.

RCdc -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:48:16 AM)
I agree there are degrees of snobbery in any environment. BDSM is going to be no different from music, golf - etc - simply because people from everyday life exercise themselves in them, and BDSM is no different. People are people and much of the time there is this myth that BDSM is better than that, and it isn't. It's just another subsection of people. However, I do disagree with using the term 'snob' in the context of your post. Snobbery would suggest differing status, and you do not see the action you are speaking of reserved to status. It happens across the board. But then, your looking at words on a screen - another thing people tend to forget. Words are just words and time and again you see people second guessing others intentions - that they are picking on someone because if their orientation,or accusing people of being upset or 'bovvered'. There are no indications to emotions unless people put the emotion down. There is no face to look into. No voice to hear. Just flat words that say what is written and nothing more. People second guess an attack most of the time, usually when it referes to something they aren't wanting, or aren't ready to hear themselves. There is a fine example on the submissive board right now. Someone asked about 24-7. Now you can look at some of those posts and go - wow - harsh. But that poster is taking everything on board with the spirit that it is given and I say that is a person is at the sponge phase, soaking up all the info good and bad they can get. Another person could get upset and want to wipe the question away. It is purely subjective to how a persons reactions are and how they believe they will be treated. In the end, it comes down to personal responsiblity on how someone makes you feel. I could say 'I love you ' to someone in one way, and they may take it in an entirely different context. You could lie to someone and pretend to be something you are not, or be yourself and they can take what they want and discard the rest. And if they can't, they aren't willing to learn in the first place. Only when you are open to all emotions and viewpoints, can healing and learning take place. You don't have to agree, but you don;t have to take it as a personal slur either. That is up to the individual themselves to feel that emotion. the.dark.

Evility -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:51:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jimdandymagnum Our society is filled with snobbery. Yes, it is. It was when I started out in all of this, too... at that beginning that you allude to. I managed to navigate my way through it and acquire the knowledge and skills and experience that I now have. Which makes it all just that much more meaningful to me.

RoughFN -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:52:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP If I was interested in learning to play golf, I wouldn't show up on the golf course with a brand new set of clubs, dressed in the right outfit, and proceed to make everyone else's day misery by not knowing what I was doing. And if I did do such a thing, I would deserve all the comments I got about stupid newbies slowing up play. Instead I would take lessons with the pro and accept his advice as to when to play so as not to hold everyone else up. Here or at a public dungeon is no different. Do your homework, nobody else has the responsibility to ruining their evening to teach you. Because the truth is that those who want to learn, here or elsewhere, will quickly identify what they want to learn and from whom, and go ask that person for help. The ones who don't ask for help, won't accept it, and will get bitchy when you point out to them their mistakes. Your analogy is somewhat flawed. Look at the example as you presented it, and note the part that I put in bold. You say yourself that you'd seek out an expert and talk to them so as to figure out what you're doing before you try to jump into the middle of things. I would say, by extension, that asking on collarme for advise and suggestions before going to local clubs or doing your own play is the exact same thing. Seeking out an expert and asking them. Now, I will admit that one major difference is that your hypothetical golf pro is getting paid to offer up his insight and knowledge whereas we here are not (anyone that wants to pay me for advise is welcome!), but we're also not obligated to provide any help, so I think the two evens out. All volunteer. The next paragraph you go on about asking other people for help...which is what the new people are doing. So what's the problem with it? My complaint is with the canned replies that basically tell people to get out of the community and not come back until they actually know what they're talking about. Just go read all these books and attend all these classes and try subbing first (if you're old guard) and then you may come back and meekly request knowledge like the lowly worm you are. At that point, if they've read all the books and have all the experience and know all the stuff, then they wouldn't (shouldn't?) be asking silly novice questions anyway. The boards become just a place for self-styled "experts" to hang out and pat each other on the back about how clever they are. Again, I'm not specifically knocking BDSM or collarme, I'm talking about all closed communities like ours. It's also not necessarily the only reaction that the newbies get, but it's certainly there. And it will push people away. There's also a common refrain that if the people are really interested in the subject that they'll just go off and learn it anyway. If they don't go off and learn on their own, they weren't interested anyway. And this is true, but it's also missing the fact that there will be some certain percentage of people that will go off and learn it on their own, become skilled and knowledgeable, and not come back.. I've bolded that since it's important. If they think the community is peopled with assholes, they won't necessarily want to contribute back to it or participate and we lose out on what they've learned. Yes, I do fully think that someone can go off and learn all sorts of great useful things and master a craft in total isolation. If that wasn't the case, then people shouldn't be sent off to start all their learning in seclusion anyway. I don't care about the people that don't want to contribute back or teach or instruct new folks. There's nothing wrong with that. Teach if you want, don't teach if you don't. I'm not going to demand that those with experience must instruct new people. That's silly. But the people that go out of their way to be insulting to the new folks and drive them away? That I don't get. That's extremely damaging to the greater whole, and that's the behavior I'd like to see change.

Jeffff -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:54:56 AM)
I know what I want, I know what what I will listen too, I know pretentiousness when I see it. If that makes me a snob...ok...whatever. I will reserve the right to mock the dangerously stupid. It is not my job to make them feel good about themselves. Theses boards provide a wealth of good solid information to anyone with an open mind. Those that come with preconceived notions and an unwillingness to see any other view point......can go fuck themselves....:) Jeff

IrishMist -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 5:56:54 AM)
quote: But the people that go out of their way to be insulting to the new folks and drive them away? That I don't get. That's extremely damaging to the greater whole, and that's the behavior I'd like to see change. Ok...I guess it is time to be serious for a change. Yes, I am insulting. Yes, I am rude. Yes, I am harsh. Along with all that though, I am honest. If someone comes here and asks a serious question; I answer honestly, to the best of my ability and using my own experiences as an example. If someone comes here, asks a question that is so obviously off the wall and STUPID ( a good example is a 40 year old asking why a stranger they have never met and only conversed with once on the internet is suddenly ignoring them )...they are going to get the kind of answer that deserves such stupidity.

Jeffff -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 6:01:07 AM)
you forgot to add refreshing...... and funny! Jeff

soul2share -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 6:04:00 AM)
I still consider myself a relative newbie to the lifestyle. I have used these boards to learn quite a bit about the various aspects of the lifestyle. I'm not one for imparting what little knowledge I do have, unless it's something very simple. Non-lifestyle issues, on the other hand, I'll speak about. Yes, I have caught myself being slightly snarky, but hey, that's just who I am...I have a warped sense of humor, I call a spade a spade, and will fight to the death if I know I'm right about something. People are people, everyone has warts. People are going to get their feelings hurt, but life goes on. I don't really see too many folks here being a snob...well, maybe IrishMist, but she has so obviously EARNED that title....we can ALL be a little arrogant, or all have a bad day and respond to something in what can be considered rude or arrogant, but to let it bother you so much is really silly. This is the Internet.....big difference from real life....I take some of what is posted here with a grain of salt. There are a lot of quite experienced folks on here.....and they are readily willing to share their knowledge and advice to everyone. But again, we're all human, we are going to respond in a manner that fits our personality. Some are quite patient, and temper their remarks accordingly...then there are the ones who simply spell it out like it is. (trust me, it makes for lots of spewed pepsi on my monitor!) The pissing contests usually come to play when the person asking the question gets an answer that they don't like, or they think is rude, or just hits them the wrong way. Humor and sarcasm abound on these boards....one needs to develop a thick skin.....not for just here, but for life in general. I lurked a long time here before I posted a question...I learned a bit about the personalities thru reading their responses, so when I get popped in a post, I can usually go "well, DUH!", and have a chuckle at my own expense. I once had a serious question to ask, put it out there, and the responses I got really helped me put things together, see that what was occuring wasn't normal, and do what I basically knew was right for me. And that's the rub......some folks post a question KNOWING what they need to do, but seem to need the validation in order to follow through....well, no one here is going to hold anyone's hand and go "there, there, now...let's do this"......that's not what they are here for. Advice is offered, but ultimately, the action taken will only depend on the person with the question asked. Just my .05...take it for what it's worth!

Justme696 -> RE: BDSM SNOBS (1/25/2008 6:08:08 AM)
quote: Yes, I am insulting. Yes, I am rude. Yes, I am harsh. Along with all that though, I am honest. And why are you insulting, harsh and rude? With what goal?

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