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RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 10:10:35 AM

verysweet

Posts: 128
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

And when we are told that the submissive/slave/pet would have no idea of this scenario and it isn't pre-agreed? You make assumptions when there is little or no information. Those are the words as they are written.

the.dark.

Yes, I did make quite a few 'assumptions'. I'll give you that. But my original response to the OP indicated that I had invisioned this type of scenario taking place within the confines of my own relationship. It's very rare we have any sort of pre-production meeting. But that is us. Once again, YMMV. It was, in fact, a fantasy which I liken to any work of fiction---open to interpretation.

Edited because the bold came out of nowhere. Yikes.
Have a great day...:)

< Message edited by verysweet -- 1/29/2008 10:12:11 AM >

_____________________________

Poetry in devotion.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 41

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 10:22:44 AM

rubberpet

Posts: 1743
Joined: 4/6/2006
From: The Land of Voodoo
Status: offline

I have no desire to ever see Mistress submit. It's not that I would lose respect for Her or that I'd look at Her differently afterwards. It difficult to explain. She's just too much of a control freak! LOL

I have noticed that when some dom/mes are asked whether they would submit, they respond as if they are insulted by the question and that being submissive (or submitting to someone) is just plain wrong. I find that curious...

_____________________________

Collared and devoted property of Mistress Lorelei (vampchick88) as of 3/26/08.

Rubberpet - The Resident Anti-Subby and mysterious shadowy figure known as Voodoo, proud hitman and wiseguy for the Subby Mafia.

(in reply to SireKane)

Post #: 42

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 10:30:17 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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To make sure that I understand, the scenario is that he will pretend to submit to another dominant while I am restrained and required to watch. The topping aspect is irrelevant compared to the pretense of submitting to another. In essence this is a mind fuck scene; is that correct?

As a note, we do not negotiate or discuss scenes or play before they happen. I may not even know that play is going to occur until right before it starts. Even if there are other people involved in the play, I will not have any knowledge of the negotiations between him and them or even if there are going to be other people. As a result, I have to be mentally prepared for just about anything at any time with the knowledge that he will not harm me.

Considering how well I know him, there would be little doubt that there was only a pretense of submitting. Because of that the mind fuck would not have as significant impact as might be expected and I would be focusing more on the topping aspect of the play. Depending on whether the play is sensation play or pain play, I think it might be hot as hell and I would become turned on. Seeing him in pain would not be a turn on; seeing him enjoy himself would be.

It wouldn't ruin the relationship. There may be some mental and emotional stress that would be resolved in the days following between he and I.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to RoughFN)

Post #: 43

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 10:38:06 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

My Master would never submit to another even a pretense of it.

Let's say in some other world he did. It was not discussed beforehand. I would be shocked, angry, upset, and deeply hurt. He said as long as i am his he would not be with another, we have that trust thing going on. It is also a hard limit for me that he does not be with another and he agreed. It would be breaking my limits and my trust. I love him more than life itself but not sure if the relationship could take such a blow.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 44

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 10:52:43 AM

xxblushesxx

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

Not to mention the fact that if somehow, the sub did get out of his/her restraints, they may seriously injure or kill the 'uber top' since he/she has no idea this is a game.
I don't think anyone would like to watch someone they love be hurt/abused against their will. (play excepted)
If the bottom doesn't know it's play, then it is just too traumatic of an experience.
I don't think OP has really considered the implications for the sub/slave's state of mind. Then and later.
It's probably best left as a fantasy.

(in reply to littleone35)

Post #: 45

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 10:58:20 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

It's very rare we have any sort of pre-production meeting.

We do not have preproduction meetings either, but he does pick my brain as to how I would feel if he did XY or Z. What he does with that information is up to him. In my opinion, for me, it would be abusive to put me in the decribed scenario with no prior warning that such may one day happen to me.

Example: My Daddy wants to use knives and whips on me one day. He asked me how I felt about these things, I told him I thought it sounded hot. Now he knows how I feel about it, I would enjoy these things... I trust him to make this happen in as safe a way as he can without damaging me emotionally.

So whilst I am not in on the actual planning of what will happen, he is responsible enough with me to see how I feel about certain sorts of play before he just jumps in and does it. This fantasy scenario is almost like having a rape scenario with strangers involved and the submissive not being given any idea that her dominant planned such a thing... such a scenario could permanently damage someone.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to verysweet)

Post #: 46

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 11:03:07 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I couldn't handle it. It would damage our relationship.

If he needed sensation play, then the only way I could handle it would be if he hired a pro domme, which would mean no sexual contact. I suppose I could handle him prearranging a public scene at a dungeon with a well known top to do just prearranged activities ie florentine flogging, needle play, singlewhip. A particular sensation play.

But doing this to me would mean he was making me submit to this other person, and that in and of itself would break the bounds of our relationship. Monogamy for us means sex and play and power. All of which you would be taking from the sub without consent.

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(in reply to SireKane)

Post #: 47

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 11:05:00 AM

OmegaG

Posts: 1474
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

It's very rare we have any sort of pre-production meeting.

We do not have preproduction meetings either, but he does pick my brain as to how I would feel if he did XY or Z. What he does with that information is up to him. In my opinion, for me, it would be abusive to put me in the decribed scenario with no prior warning that such may one day happen to me.

Example: My Daddy wants to use knives and whips on me one day. He asked me how I felt about these things, I told him I thought it sounded hot. Now he knows how I feel about it, I would enjoy these things... I trust him to make this happen in as safe a way as he can without damaging me emotionally.

So whilst I am not in on the actual planning of what will happen, he is responsible enough with me to see how I feel about certain sorts of play before he just jumps in and does it. This fantasy scenario is almost like having a rape scenario with strangers involved and the submissive not being given any idea that her dominant planned such a thing... such a scenario could permanently damage someone.

He and I have had abstract conversations about "what if" scenarios. I know that I file away pertinent information and I suspect he does as well so that he can use it later for pleasure or punishment.

Had a conversation happened like this so that the middle Dom knew how the slave felt and visa versa (as in Kyra's case) then this scenario might be plausible, but from the majority of the posts, I'd say that it is not an idea to manifest in reality generally.

_____________________________

Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable. Sydney J. Harris

Sex without pain is like food without taste.
- de Sade

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 48

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 11:10:09 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OmegaG

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

It's very rare we have any sort of pre-production meeting.

We do not have preproduction meetings either, but he does pick my brain as to how I would feel if he did XY or Z. What he does with that information is up to him. In my opinion, for me, it would be abusive to put me in the decribed scenario with no prior warning that such may one day happen to me.

Example: My Daddy wants to use knives and whips on me one day. He asked me how I felt about these things, I told him I thought it sounded hot. Now he knows how I feel about it, I would enjoy these things... I trust him to make this happen in as safe a way as he can without damaging me emotionally.

So whilst I am not in on the actual planning of what will happen, he is responsible enough with me to see how I feel about certain sorts of play before he just jumps in and does it. This fantasy scenario is almost like having a rape scenario with strangers involved and the submissive not being given any idea that her dominant planned such a thing... such a scenario could permanently damage someone.

He and I have had abstract conversations about "what if" scenarios. I know that I file away pertinent information and I suspect he does as well so that he can use it later for pleasure or punishment.

Had a conversation happened like this so that the middle Dom knew how the slave felt and visa versa (as in Kyra's case) then this scenario might be plausible, but from the majority of the posts, I'd say that it is not an idea to manifest in reality generally.

Darcy and I have these what if conversations also - It's pretty regular. And as I do top, seeing Darcy in that position wouldn't cause me to have less respect for him or ruin our relationship. And as for after care - I wouldn't have any concerns that he would deal with anything inthe following days etc.
And I don't see the scenario depicted as plausible either.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to OmegaG)

Post #: 49

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 11:38:17 AM

darchChylde

Posts: 5279
Joined: 9/28/2006
From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
Status: offline

As Ma'am is submissive to Her Husband, this is almost like a scenario i've had to wonder about for some time. So far, i haven't seen Her in a serious scene; generally woke up to hear Her in the other room getting spanked as a prelude to other things. But i don't know how i'd handle it if/when i have to watch Her bottoming. It's something i'm nervous abou because i have strong issues about men hitting women, even consentually (yes, i know it's a double-standard) where my response is almost instinctual. Watching other women being topped is difficult, but i have learned to just turn and walk away; but if it were Ma'am and i were forced to watch? That might be an issue, i hope not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RoughFN
To complete the effect, I'll make sure to leave her lying facedown on the bed as I go and have her not get up or move for at least a few minutes. Again, just so the slave can stare at her lying limp and broken (or maybe just relaxed) on the bed.

Here is where i'd have major issues, and it is something i could never consent to; and would thus never happen. But, if this were to happen? No, it wouldn't ruin the relationship; i knew She was a switch going in. Yes, it would be horribly disturbing. But be sure that i am securely tied and hope Ma'am is able to comfort and calm me down, else i would hunt you down. To make a submissive think that their dominant has been injured in such a way is cruel and irresponsible beyond words; and i don't think any dominant woman would allow such an ending before their submissive, the mind-fuck is too dangerous.

< Message edited by darchChylde -- 1/29/2008 11:48:36 AM >

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

(in reply to RoughFN)

Post #: 50

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 11:40:22 AM

cautiousiasub

Posts: 199
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline

~FR~

This would likely damage our relationship beyond repair for various reasons. If he is being topped by another, how is he able to keep me safe? It all comes down to that. Whether it's a mindfuck or not, in that particular moment, he isn't the one in control of the situation (in my mind anyway) and therefore couldn't guarantee my safety. It would be a huge loss of trust that would not be regained.

_____________________________

"If variety is the spice of life, marriage is the big can of leftover Spam." - Johnny Carson

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 51

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 11:47:05 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

And as I do top, seeing Darcy in that position wouldn't cause me to have less respect for him or ruin our relationship.

Seeing my Daddy being topped wouldn't ruin our relationship nor cause me to disrespect him. I bottom when we play, I respect myself. It is the scenario of being put in a position where we both lacked control over our positions without any prior warning that would be destructive to our dynamic for me. Now he could do this scenario, we share the same limits basically, but it would cause me to freak out if we were both tied up and he could not get to me if he needed to for any reason and abdicated that responsibility to a top... especially one I had never met before or knew.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 52

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 11:51:03 AM

verysweet

Posts: 128
Status: offline

Maybe I did not read the entire OP thoughtfully enough, but when I saw this....

RoughFN: To complete the effect, I'll make sure to leave her lying facedown on the bed as I go and have her not get up or move for at least a few minutes. Again, just so the slave can stare at her lying limp and broken (or maybe just relaxed) on the bed

I was not thinking of him as a 'wounded bird', but simply spent and relaxed after having participated in the scene. Oh well.

_____________________________

Poetry in devotion.

(in reply to cautiousiasub)

Post #: 53

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 12:26:34 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

A couple other thougths about this scenario... My Lord is a horrible liar. Whenever he tries to lie, he laughs. It is something that we all find amusing and play with from time to time. In order for a mind fuck to work, he would have to be telling the truth and behaving in a manner that demonstrates his truth. Otherwise, he would just be laughing and so would I.

The other thought is that if the other top were to leave and not pretend to leave, then I most likely would not be bound in a way that I could not get out of. He will not bind us in a way that we cannot get out of if there is not someone else there to get us out of our bonds in the event that something happens to him. He does not want us to be unable to get to him if he needs assistance.

Knight's Kyra

< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 1/29/2008 12:27:55 PM >

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 54

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 12:28:57 PM

meticulousgirl

Posts: 969
Joined: 2/20/2007
Status: offline

i loved watching my previous Owners top each other, that was exceptionally hott.....

now with Sir....i would enjoy it infact the thought for some reason has been crossing my mind alot lately but i know it would NEVER happen. So, i just need to stop thinking about it.

~meticulous~

(in reply to SireKane)

Post #: 55

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 3:23:41 PM

Shawn1066

Posts: 987
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline

My Owner wouldn't submit to anybody under any pretexts, really...so I can't answer. It's something entirely out of the relm of possibility.

Now, if it happened it crazyland, I'd hate it. I'd get sick, and I'd be extremely upset. It would be cheating, for one. It'd wouldn't be consentual, for two...

< Message edited by Shawn1066 -- 1/29/2008 3:26:41 PM >

(in reply to meticulousgirl)

Post #: 56

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 4:48:13 PM

breatheasone

Posts: 4004
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

I know how I would react....after I got out of the restraints I'd Bitch slap my then FORMER Master...and hunt down the bitch that topped Him and bitch slap her. Twice actually.

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candy posts in pink font

(in reply to Shawn1066)

Post #: 57

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 5:01:09 PM

Evility

Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline

While I have always wanted to top a Dommé (not someone who is a switch) my interest is purely about the interaction between she and I. I have no interest in topping a Dommé as a means to and end, i.e. :

I'm much more interested in messing with the slave.

If I had arranged to top a Dommé and she wished for her submissive to be a spectator in the fashion that you described she and I would have a long heart to heart about this scenario with me asking many questions before I would agree to it. I question that I would be interested if she stated plainly that she wasn't sure what the outcome might be. Adding that variable that I might not be totally comfortable with would spoil the whole reason I wanted to do it in the first place.

Honestly, I am really not comfortable with the "messing with the slave" angle although I feel that the Dommé in question would bear the brunt of responsibility for the outcome. I really can't understand how someone could subject their submissive to this if they knew it might cost them the relationship. I make the decisions in our relationship and I draw the lines but I also have common sense and a sense of compassion and I do love her dearly despite any of the nasty shit I subject her to.

On the flipside, if we were trading opportunities to top one another (and this is clearly the only reason I would agree to bottom to her) and she wished my submissive be present and bound in the manner described while she topped me I'd have no qualms about it. When it comes to this realm I know her almost as well as I know myself. My submissive could also be the one present while I topped the Dommé. No worries. We could do either arrangement without any prior knowledge or consent from my submissive. That is the nature of our relationship and we both really enjoy it. I am quite certain she would dig it.

This a very interesting post/thread. It highlights how important it is to really know your partner... to be able to get inside their head.

(in reply to RoughFN)

Post #: 58

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 5:22:12 PM

angelslave77

Posts: 478
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

The scene you described would be one that would kill my relationship for two main reasons, firstly being dragged into it without consent and secondly the whole sexual part. Like others have said, if the D/s couple invovled had discussed such scenes then I guess that is different (kinda strikes me as similar to the whole cuckold thing).

I know within my realationship with my Sir I have seen him flogged by a Domme but she is a friend and it was hot, so a negotiated botttoming scene that I was aware of (and geez if I was tied all the better, rope makes me hot) would be ok as long as I was aware in advance that at some point it was going to happen, and secondly there was nothing remotely sexual about it.

I think the key thing missing in the OP was that the sub was totally unaware and that is the "unkind" part, you just so wouldnt risk fucking with someone like that unless you were intentionally trying to hurt them and that to me is just wrong and a totally vilolation of trust and certainly any Dom that would risk putting their s type through that wouldnt be worth having. So hot fantasy maybe if all come through it unscathed (which of course in a fantasy they would) but in reality it would nedd a hell of a lot of negotiation between all parties.

(in reply to venusinblu)

Post #: 59

RE: watching your master/mistress submit - 1/29/2008 5:37:58 PM

denika

Posts: 619
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline

I am a slave to a Switch and that scenerio probably would never be done, we had a lot of conversations before I ever saw him submit to somone (we never switch roles in our relationship, just wouldn't work) watching him bottom to his wife (who is one hell of a wicked Sadist, wow) was actually a really good experience and we had a lot of fun, seeing him bottom to another man isn't something I've seen yet, at least not up close and personal. It's a part of who he is, he takes me for all of me and I do the same for him.

It might be something I just don't watch, I'm not sure or something I really like to watch, I can't really say but I know I would not be comfortable if it was just sprung on me like that, it would probably put me in an ugly head space and that wouldn't make it much fun for anyone.

Wolf's denika

(in reply to RoughFN)

Post #: 60

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