LadyEllen
Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: farglebargle
quote:
ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Universal health care is great - but by our experience its very, very expensive,
I'm in Upstate NY. Have Group Health Coverage via the local Chamber of Commerce for our Sole-Prop LLC.
I'm paying $14,400 USD/year to cover my family through a HMO.
More expensive than that?
I'm not sure its possible to make a fair comparison FB - the environments are very different after all. Over here, whilst there is National Insurance which all workers and employers pay towards healthcare, welfare, pensions etc, this is topped up by general taxation too, and I believe our taxes are set generally higher on a much wider range of situations than you have. Over there, from what I understand at least, fewer people have healthcare so the cost isnt split over so many sources as here. Also you seem to have a lot more litigation for medical mistakes with far higher settlements than over here - and this must affect costs too. And finally, the general cost of living being different the salaries will be different and so the relative cost will vary too.
I can provide a microcosm view of UK taxation if you like?
My company employs three full time including me. The annual salaries amount to around $200,000-00. Taxes on that are
Employers National Insurance 11% $22,000-00 ($7333-00 each average)
Employees National Insurance 9% $18,000-00 ($6000-00 each average)
Income Tax (variable but use 20%) $36,400-00 ($12,133-00 each average)
(income tax is deducted after National Insurance)
So our contribution to National Insurance is $13,333-00 each average - but this goes towards health, welfare and pensions. This isnt enough to meet the bills, so some of our $12,133-00 income tax each (maybe all, because its very obscure) goes into this pot too.
This leaves $145,600-00 as net income ($48,533-00 each average)
But there is then 17.5% VAT (like a sales tax) on almost everything apart from food. "Gas" costs almost $10-00 a gallon, of which around 70% is tax. We pay tax on almost everything! I did make a reasonable guesstimate once that of our gross salaries, something like 60-70% finds its way to the government in one way or another.
Then there is the company. My company remits around $400,000-00 in net VAT taxation to the goverment every year. And if we make a profit then we pay more taxes on that - its variable according to the level of profit.
The problem of universal health care is that it is very expensive, and the money has to come from somewhere. The costs rise year on year above inflation - new drugs, new treatments, demographic changes as we're experiencing now - yet its very difficult to make the pot grow to match. The result is that some treatments, some drugs etc are deemed not cost effective, some people are deemed not cost effective to treat. So one ends up with a similar situation to that which you have now in the US, where some people are more equal than others, albeit on different grounds perhaps. We also suffer from excess costs for an overabundance of management.
Yet the US ought to have universal health care. But it should take time to look at how it works all over the world and engineer a system that will be resilient, and it must look at its priorities, because the money is there for this, but it might need to be freed up from being spent on other things. Its the same for us with our existing system - it needs to be reorganised and funds used for other things put into it.
And why is it important? Well, I refer to my post on page 1 (I think it was). I would be dead without our health service. Treating me costs a bit of course, but not a huge amount - and certainly a microscopic amount compared to the net economic and social result of me being alive and well enough to work for the last twenty years to pay in hundreds of thousands of pounds in taxes, provide employment for others and raise a family. Yes, universal health care costs a lot of money, but it also saves a lot of money and social problems and improves the country.
And for those who say "your illness isnt my problem" and subscribe to a "the weak must perish" philosophy; you know, its great to have your health - will you feel the same when you become ill and in inconceivable pain? I fancy not - in fact I know not.
E
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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.
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RE: a rant: goodbye universal health care - 
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