RE: ouch- USA people hated (Full Version)

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KyttynTheMynx -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 6:02:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: utterlybutterfli


I read somewhere that over 80% of Americans don't have a passport. If that IS true, then I'm a bit curious about the lack of desire/motivation to see the world outside.


Perhaps there is no lack of desire/motivation.  Perhaps there is a lack in funds?  Personally, I'd love to travel, but due to the fact that I make enough to cover bills, and a few frills every other weekend, America is as far as I will go.  Atleast until I hit the Bahamas this summer...




kittinSol -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 6:13:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Are you saying you are the only innovators on the planet? Cos, you ain't. Far from it.


There was nothing in her post that suggested any such thing. She was defending her country against the remark:
quote:

The US is pretty much a bunch of under-educated people that are trained to wave the flag and self-righteously believe that God loves them more than the rest of the world.  The country has some of the highest obesity rates because of sugar, tobacco and junk food marketing. A country of sedentary yahoos glued to the TV.


Where did you get the idea that she believes that the US is the only innovators on the planet? [8|]



Oh for godsake... first of all, lusciouslips was wrong, for as others have pointed out the English invented the Web - and nobody attacked 'her country', we were peacefully discussing things as they were posted by an (American, I believe, pahunkboy?) poster; secondly, I didn't make the comment above. I'd be grateful if you didn't attribute to me things I haven't said.

Ta!




PrizedPosession -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 6:16:49 PM)

quote:

Touché, well kinda your aways away from 3 billion but I will concede you've topped 300 million.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Foititis

You're right, sorry it's been a long day and i spazzed. Memory recollection sucks.




lusciouslips19 -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 6:17:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Are you saying you are the only innovators on the planet? Cos, you ain't. Far from it.


There was nothing in her post that suggested any such thing. She was defending her country against the remark:
quote:

The US is pretty much a bunch of under-educated people that are trained to wave the flag and self-righteously believe that God loves them more than the rest of the world.  The country has some of the highest obesity rates because of sugar, tobacco and junk food marketing. A country of sedentary yahoos glued to the TV.


Where did you get the idea that she believes that the US is the only innovators on the planet? [8|]



Oh for godsake... first of all, lusciouslips was wrong, for as others have pointed out the English invented the Web - and nobody attacked 'her country', we were peacefully discussing things as they were posted by an (American, I believe, pahunkboy?) poster; secondly, I didn't make the comment above. I'd be grateful if you didn't attribute to me things I haven't said.

Ta!


Well give me your sources that the English invented the web? My research indicates otherwise. Concepts go back to WW2 but actual invention of hypertext happened in the 60's




slaveboyforyou -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 6:32:23 PM)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_inventions

We invented all of this.  Yeah, some of them were invented by immigrants.  But that is a tired old argument.  The U.S. is a nation of immigrants.  Since, the U.S. is only 231 years old, I think that's a lot to be proud of.  Honestly, think about that.  We have become the most powerful country in 231 years.  Not too shabby, IMO.

I won't get into an argument about who is the best.  That is just stupid.  We all have our good qualities.  But America has always been ridiculed by the rest of the West.  We started off as a backwater, and most nations predicted our quick downfall.  So I don't see anything wrong with being proud of the fact that we defied the odds and we did it alone.   




lusciouslips19 -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 6:43:22 PM)

quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_inventions We invented all of this.  Yeah, some of them were invented by immigrants.  But that is a tired old argument.  The U.S. is a nation of immigrants.


facinating read!




Gwynvyd -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 7:15:26 PM)

*sighs and knows she will prob. be flamed on this*

I keep decent track of politics here, and abroad. As well as Social Issues. I am odd that way.

Just as America had it's renaissance (IMO a bad one) of conservativism. Oz is about as far Left as a country as we have become as far Right.

When you look at thier political parties vs. American political parties and what they each stand for.... you can see why they would think we are a bunch of *goes back and reviews the article again* "extreme right wing nutters" set on a "manifest destiny" fetish

Mind you these lovely people... and mind you I am about as Liberial as they come.. I hug trees, I have a female other half, I home schooled our son for the first 2 years, I am just about everything Bushco is scared shitless of....

well these lovely people ~at least the ( to use thier term) nutters in the mass news outlets make me look down right as Conservative as Rush.

These are the very same people who Durring Chirstmas told the Santas in training they didnt want them to say "ho ho ho" because it was offensive to women. The company of course changed thier tune once the public thought it was stupid too. http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22737250-5006301,00.html    I did read articles back then that some womens groups thought it was "about time" LOL

Now even the Lesbian Auzzies are at it with wanting to call Lesbians Gayelles.. because Lesbian has "bad conotations" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian 
Due to the perceived derogatory tone of the word lesbian, a group of women in Australia is seeking to update the term to gayelle (for "gay female", elle meaning she in French)
You can also see them at www.gayelle.org
I will be damned if a bunch of twinks change the name from Lesbian to something as fruity sounding as Gayelle.

So... you have an ultra Progressive Liberal Nation that dislikes a Nation that is lead on by Good ol boy Conservative politics... Gee golly who'da thunk it.


I think the phrase "Temperance in all things" is a good one. *shrugs*

Gwyn




Gwynvyd -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 7:22:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Foititis

Yeah I know, I guess the fact i know is a testament to America's influence. The rest of the world watches the presidential race with baited breath any yet i would expect a large portion of Americans don't know or care who Australia's prime minister is (not that I would think less of them for it).


Kevin Rudd, of the Labor Party. *smiles*

Some of us pay attention...

Gwyn,
and yes.. I *do* rock on Jeopardy!




bipolarber -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 8:23:53 PM)

I suppose that if the United States has defining characteristics, it's probably split among the following:

1) We came up with the idea of self rule. No kings, no Popes, no fudal lords or emperors. Just people deciding among themselves how to best hash out their difficulties for the common good. (It's a chaotic process at best, but it's amazing how we can change representation every 4 to 8 years with virtually no bloodshed.)

2) On an individual level, we can (and often do) walk away from all convention, and live our lives as we see fit. Virtually everyone on this board is living proof of that. I myself, walked away from my parents' Catholosicism, and over 100 years of my family living in the center of the country, simply because I wanted to see a little something of the planet before I cack.
No one can force us to believe in a particular way, live in a particular place, or work at a particular vocation, if we don't want to. (With the exception of military service in the time of war.)

3. We DO get arrogant at times. That much personal freedom in life, and of thought, tends to throw off arrogance the same way an atomic pile thows off free neutrons. It's not something we're particularly proud of, frankly, but we're working on it.

4. We're about as chaotic as a hornet's nest that's been hit with a stick. Everyone has their own idea of Utopia, and is busily trying to create their own version of Shangri-La somewhere. And are willing to beat someone over their head with stupid legislation, trying to force people down a certain path. So you have stupid, but well meaning, people doing embarassing things, like trying to force creationsim down people's throats, or tell women how to run their own procreation systems, or who get freaked out because they think that we're being overrun by folks from south of the boarder... 

So those are some of the major attirbutes of being American, in my view. Now, as to how we view the rest of the world:

Canada: we tend to think of it as America's attic. We know it's up there, but we just don't think about it much.

England: Our best pal. We've had our differences, but so much of who we are came from the U.K., hating them would be like hating your 1st cousin. (the one who's good in history)

France: we have a love /hate relationship with the French. They have helped us many times in our history, and we've repaid them as often as we could. The recent hulabaloo betwixt our two countries basically added up to an international version of them saying, "Hey, America, you're not acting like yourself. You've gotten a bit drunk after that pipsqueak nation bloodied your nose. You might start a fight you'll regret. Here, you'd better let me have your car keys..." And America replied, "Fuck you! I can hold my liquor! I never liked hanging with you anyway, France!" And we promptly drove off intoxicated, and made a wrong turn onto the railroad tracks... (and if you've watched the news this week, we all know how THAT works out!)

Austrailia: Okay... we love Aussies. Gotta admit it. These folks remind us so much of ourselves in the early days, it ain't even funny. We're both nations made up of the people that no one else wanted. And we've both become something fantastic once we were away from the yokes of tradition.

The rest of the world: Well, for the most part, we look on it as a long and difficult reconstruction project. It's a paradox: we want people to keep their own identity, but we also want to make sure everyone has the food, water, sanitation, and freedom that they need to survive and flourish. It aint an easy task. And we fuck up... a lot.

The solar system: Well, so far, it's been pretty much us. But that's okay, we don't look on it as our territory (yet) It's all pretty much for everyone. Also, despite what a bunch of stuffy european astronomers think, Pluto's a friggin planet. It's round, it has three moons, it circles the sun, it has an atmosphere... it's a planet. And when Far Horizions arrives in 12 years, you're going to have a hard time convincing the world otherwise. (We defend it, because it was the only planet we had discovered at the time... now of course, we've added two more in system, and 250 + outside the system.) Chew on that! :P




PrizedPosession -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 9:19:43 PM)

Gwynvyd...you're amazing.
Teach me please
bobcat




Gwynvyd -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 9:45:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PrizedPosession

Gwynvyd...you're amazing.
Teach me please
bobcat



*smiles* Um.. thanks?

The world as a whole has gotten a hell of a lot smaller. In my life and interactions it pays to understand where folks are "comming from" who are from different places in the world. Be they English, French, Pakistani, Indian ( dot not feather ) Asian, Aussie, Russian ~what have yous...

If you study any groups socioeconomics, diveristy, political parties ( in fair detail of what they say thier beliefs are.. and how they carry them out in real life), religons, social views.. ect. you get a good feel for them. So when news items come up between one country and another it is like having a huge Ah ha! moment. You can see a bit of inner workings behind it.

It is kinda geeky to study and keep up to date.. and no one person could possibly keep track of it all. But it is a fun hobby even if it does piss you off some times.

Another reason why Auzzies prob. hate us so much is we bungled our last 2 elections so badly and some how voted that idiot into power. ( I say we didnt vote him in.. but those are my own theorys ) They have compulsory voting laws. If you are enroled to vote at 18 (which is again you guessed it.. compulsory~ except in the south) you *have* to vote. In each and every State, Territory, and Federal level.

Most Americans ~as it would apear to them I am sure~ do not give two shits about thier voting rights.. and didnt care enough to keep that asshat out of office.

Just another thought..

Gwyn




Hippiekinkster -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 10:13:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Okay, quick straw poll -

Regardless of our origin, how many of us have visited more than two foreign countries?

Read my profile, I think I got them all. I might have missed Gibraltar.

Oh, OK,  that sounds too much like an advert for meself, so...

Canada, Mexico (umpteen times)(love Oaxaca), Costa Rica, England, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Germany (rented a flat in Munich for a month in 2003; great time), Austria, Hungary, Spain, Gibraltar, Morocco.

I try to avoid Amis when I travel. I try to blend in a bit. In Munich I carried a copy of Suddeutsche Zeitung; Berlin I didn't bother 'cause not that many Ami tourists there. I don't travel to talk to Amis, anyway. I do it to meet locals.

I have to say, I really haven't had very many negative experiences with people. Nasty cabbie in Paris (N. African). Asshole security at Charles de Gaulle. Getting slammed into by a psycho woman in Berlin. That's really all I can think of. People have been nice and decent everywhere. Learning how to say Gracias, Merci, Vielen Dank, Shokran, Dank je, Grazie, etc. made things quite pleasant for me.




greyangelus -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (1/31/2008 11:14:10 PM)

Italy, croatia, greece, crete (I know crete isn't a country, but I can't remember which one it belongs too), Turky, Bahrain, The UAE, Spain; mind though, I was in the Navy, so my time in each of those countries was limited and controlled.  I do very much want to go back to Venice.

Unfortunately, the pass most American got overseas when it comes to our governmental stupidity has been worn over the last 8 years.  My last overseas experience was in 2004, but even then the people I meet were decidely less warm than just a few years earlier in 2002 (still polite and courteous mind, but far less willing to engage in casual conversation).

Too much meddling, too much hubris on Bush and Co's part.  One thing that is little commented on here but has done a huge amount of damage is our relationship with Israel.  Anything less than 'ra, ra, go israel' is political suicide, despite the fact it is as a bad an Apartheid nation as south africa was in the 80's (along different lines, but utilizing the same methods).

If I should mention one thing though, is I don't think europeans and other realize just how much different a bi-party political system and what its effects are than the multi-party parliementary style which is the norm across the world.  It is the most significant reason for voter apathy in this country.

Pick any candidate you want, and I'll tell you what will happen in the next 4 years in regards to any significant issue or problem (with the exception of Ron Paul).  The Global War on terror will continue, the occupation of Iraq and afghanistan will continue, the devaluation of the dollar will continue along with its host of other effects,  our policy towards Israel will continue, our policy with Iran will continue, overspending by the federal government and the growth of the national debt will continue.  Clinton, McCain, Obama, Guilliani, Huckabee, Romney; all of these candidates represent one party; the party of big buisness and bankers, the party of corruption, the war party, the israel party. 

In effect, the US is ruled by one party, the War & Fear party. We may haven chosen a different path of capitalism over socialism, but we are ruled by a single party as effectively as the Russians were ruled by the Communist party.  Means may differ, but the ends are the same.  The american people long lost the power to choose who leads us and it went to the party elite.  Deep down in a lot of americans heart's they subconciously know this.  That is the reason for voter apathy.

Our country may be republican in name, but in the end its merely the faces that change on voting day.




Owner59 -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/1/2008 12:05:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

As an American who considers myself a patriot (yes, I was raised on the Pledge of Allegience, hand on heart, salute the flag), I think that this country, as a whole, has gotten a bit too big for our britches in many ways.  Call it hubris.  The fact that so many people were screaming "HOW DARE THEY" after 9/11, to me, only illustrates just how cocky we've (generic) gotten.
But what's GOOD about America?
Take a road trip...criss cross the country.  We have plains, mountains, deserts, tropical, tundra..name it, and we've got almost every kind of climate and landscape all wrapped up within our borders.
Visit the small towns. Where people still greet strangers with a hello and a smile (ok, you can find that in the big cities too, but I think it's mostly people who've moved there from the small towns that do it..LOL) and no ulterior motive. 
I could go on, but I would like to see other Americans say what THEY think is good....


Andrea - Proud to be an American (which isn'tpreventing me from moving to the UK..LOL)


Well said ,Andrea.




Alumbrado -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/1/2008 12:15:26 AM)

quote:

Pick any candidate you want, and I'll tell you what will happen in the next 4 years in regards to any significant issue or problem (with the exception of Ron Paul).  The Global War on terror will continue, the occupation of Iraq and afghanistan will continue, the devaluation of the dollar will continue along with its host of other effects,  our policy towards Israel will continue, our policy with Iran will continue, overspending by the federal government and the growth of the national debt will continue.  Clinton, McCain, Obama, Guilliani, Huckabee, Romney; all of these candidates represent one party; the party of big buisness and bankers, the party of corruption, the war party, the israel party. 

In effect, the US is ruled by one party, the War & Fear party. We may haven chosen a different path of capitalism over socialism, but we are ruled by a single party as effectively as the Russians were ruled by the Communist party.  Means may differ, but the ends are the same.  The american people long lost the power to choose who leads us and it went to the party elite.  Deep down in a lot of americans heart's they subconciously know this.... 



And here I thought that I was the only one paying attention....[;)]




MissMorrigan -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/1/2008 12:23:36 AM)

How right you are, Alumbrado. I cannot say I am extensively travelled, I lived for a year in Texas - Austin/Dallas, and have travelled extensively throughout Europe (I would love to do a Steinbeck's Travels with Charley). The arrogance/Intolerance I have met with in America has also largely been faced in other countries, including my own. I have also met some great people who have left imprints on my life in ways that are immeasurable.

The brits complain about the 'We Will Conquer' attitude of the Americans... However, the majority of Brits still have that imperialistic mentality that we are somehow 'better' than anyone else... You'd have thought joining the EU would have been cured that disease.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
And the very things that have annoyed me everyplace in the world that I have encountered them.

So far nothing listed as an American attribute (self centeredness, jingoism, violence, bible thumping, sloth, lumpen fashion and  taste, intolerance etc.) is in fact uniquely American at all. 

It would seem that wearing blinders while pointing fingers is also a trait that transcends lines on a map.




meatcleaver -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/1/2008 12:31:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

That's nothing new...

Everyone beats up the super power. Just like everyone hates the Patriots and Yankees.



Another good example of why the English and some Americans are only superficial allies. The great nation means a lot to you; with regard to us, we have the self-confidence to not give a flying one about the nation. This could be an interesting topic, if you were to provide an opinion on what it means to be an American.


The English don't exist as a nation in any way other than in people's heads and on the sports fields. It is not recognized as a entity in any international forum or any institution in Britain. The EU recognizes Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland but not England, England being recognized as several different areas of Britain. Maybe that is the price we pay for being easy going about nationalism. Even fascists call themselve the British National Party (a contradiction in terms) and use the Union flag.




cyberdude611 -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/1/2008 12:31:31 AM)

The US has always been hated by someone at any given time. First the Brits hated us. Then the French, the Germans, the Mexicans, the Italians, the Japanese, the Koreas, the communists, the Muslims, the Russians, and so on and so forth.....

Like I said....it's nothing new.

Part of it is because America's loyalties and poltiics change practically with every administration in power. And we change the political climate faster than any other country (every 4-8 years). We dont seem to have any permanent friends or permanent enemies...just permanent interests.




meatcleaver -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/1/2008 12:53:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

The US has always been hated by someone at any given time. First the Brits hated us. Then the French, the Germans, the Mexicans, the Italians, the Japanese, the Koreas, the communists, the Muslims, the Russians, and so on and so forth.....



If you read your history this is not true. The British never fully engaged in the revolutionary war because they considered the colonists to be the same as them. It was many of the colonists that hated the Brits and later sent many of their fellow colonists fleeing to Canada after the war of Independence. It was the US that invaded Canada and started the 1812 war. All the conflicts between the US and Britain were started by the US.




Aneirin -> RE: ouch- USA people hated (2/1/2008 2:54:01 AM)

I like Americans, on the whole I see them as a more relaxed version of us in their daily lives, but a bit OTT with the national security bit.

One thing I do suppose that does not paint a rosy picture of you is your movie industry, it is plain to see though it be fiction, you do not trust your rulers, and what you do in the world, intervening in other countries affairs. Something which makes me think though it may be a movie, but why, you are not painting a nice picture for the rest of the world to see.

And the world does see your movies, most think of America from what they have seen on the big screen,(or tv these days)

oh, and all the UFO's land in America.




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