RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (Full Version)

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AquaticSub -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/1/2008 3:38:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

It made me see clearly that they care more for animals than people, and their agenda has clouded their sense of reason and better judgement.


I'll believe that they care more for animals when I see them throwing red paint on the leather jackets of a bike gang. 
As long as they stick to little old ladies in fur coats, I will always have a sneaking doubt as to the courage of their convictions.


Thank you for giving me the best mental image of the day.



Rover -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/1/2008 4:35:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gorgeous1

The questions is, like the Titanic, is it too late to avoid the iceberg...or have we already crashed into it? Are we already sinking?


I don't subscribe to the "crisis" mentality, despite the special interests and politicians who make a career on developing and maintaining a societal crisis mentality.  You may recall that this has been a concern from the outset of our country's founding, and yet we continue onward (and I would even say upward, in spite of ourselves). 
 
Is that testimony to our Constitution?  Our freedom?  The sorry state of the rest of the world, by comparison?  I dunno... but we endure.
 
John



slavekal -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/1/2008 9:37:19 PM)

If you are into any un-mainstream lifestyle and are not Libertarian, you are truly masochistic.



greyangelus -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/1/2008 11:43:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd
Ohh.. sure.. but you only get to hand me things and watch... she is all mine.. *Evil Grin*

and of course clean up duties.. LOL and hold the camera.

Gwyn,
who gets those warm and fuzzy feelings every time she thinks about it... kinda like the ones from sliding down the rope in gym class. *chuckles*


What, clean up duties?!  That's her job.... now that you brought that part up and now that I think of it I really can't which one I'd like to watch more, you floggin the piss out of her or her cleaning it up.

Sigh, decisions, decisions....






Honsoku -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 1:37:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

If you are into any un-mainstream lifestyle and are not Libertarian, you are truly masochistic.


I second that. The left will want to intervene for your own safety and the right will want to interfere to uphold decency and preserve the "moral fabric" of society.



NorthernGent -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 6:46:12 AM)

I can see where you're coming from. When Liberalism and Conservatism began to develop out of the feudal societies of Europe, Conservatism was defined by an authoritarian approach to politics, e.g. Hobbes and Machiavelli, whereas Liberalism was defined by the pursuit of individual sovereignty and initiatives, e.g. Locke and de Spinoza. So, I take the point linking authoritarianism with dominance.

I, for one, agree with your point that we're all political, including those who say they have no interest in organised politics.

I place myself firmly in the liberal camp, although, of course, I do share some common ground with conservatives. I think the factors that lend me towards Liberalism are as follows: the belief in the spirit of voluntary over drilling, a sense of fair play, modest ambitions, looking to the future rather than the past, not placing great store in tradition, open to alternative ideas and change, a belief that the region is more important than the nation, a belief that you get the best out of people by empowering them.

In terms of the link with dominance, I place great faith in guidance and empowerment as tools to yield a maximum return. 



thetammyjo -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 8:30:14 AM)

Great post, NorthernGent.

I'll add that what is often called conservatism and liberalism today would surprise those people who originally created the philosophies behind the political movements and arguments. Even people who claimed such affiliation in the 1950s and 1960s would be surprised by what is being called conservative or liberal today.



slavekal -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 8:32:34 AM)

Libertarianism is the only philosophy that is based on individual freedom in almost all matters.  The others all want to punish you for doing things that other people disapprove of.  But it's for your own good.



laurell3 -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 9:11:18 AM)

FR:
I don't fit in one camp. I am liberal on many beliefs but rather conservative in others.  I don't ever vote any straight ticket politically.  I have actually changed my party a couple times merely to have a say in the local primaries as local politics have a big impact on my profession. 

From my experience with people in BDSM circles, I don't think you can assume that means anything about them politically.  There are some very conservative people here on these very forums which at first I found odd, but I've found one thing does not necessarily lead to the other.



thetammyjo -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 10:20:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

Libertarianism is the only philosophy that is based on individual freedom in almost all matters. The others all want to punish you for doing things that other people disapprove of. But it's for your own good.


Just a question.

If the point is individual freedom is there a need for any law then within that political philosophy?

If not, how does it differ from anarchy?

I've just have always wondered about that because the development of that particular political philosophy is very far removed from any history I've done.



sirguym -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 10:43:11 AM)

I have an 'Idiots Guide To Politics' that goes:

UK Conservatires (US Republicans) are moderate Fascists
UK Labour Party (US Democrats) are moderate Socialists
UK Liberals (US 'Libertarians?) are moderate Anarchists

That should upset most of you!

I suspect that many in the lifestyle who've actually got themselves involved enough to test the currents, rather than be bamboozled by the surface bullshit, actually find themselves somewhere so far out on the fringes that they are in the area where the various philosophies begin to meet again 'the other side'.

I define myself as extreme and secular Liberal, very much opposed to "Big Government" whether it's Socialist, Fascist, Religious or Capitalist.

In practise I often find myself allied on particular issues with the kind of libertarian conservatives who believe in a low-tax and low-government-interference state, and even the kind of ex-communists who want to see the state system really withered away, like Marx said it would, (though it never did!).



atursvcMaam -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 10:48:02 AM)

i tend to go conservative/republican.  they are more inclined, in my view, to stay out of my bedroom, and my lifesyle choices (at all levels).  however, i am a social liberal.  i would be pro-choice, as long as that choice included the thought that where there's life, there is hope.  outside of my immediate family (ex-wife-who did not agree-and children) i have no need or desire to enforce that philosophy, but it lives in my heart.
just a thought, which should still leave Y/you all wondering



Shawn1066 -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 10:50:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirguym

I have an 'Idiots Guide To Politics' that goes:

UK Conservatires (US Republicans) are moderate Fascists
UK Labour Party (US Democrats) are moderate Socialists
UK Liberals (US 'Libertarians?) are moderate Anarchists

That should upset most of you!

I suspect that many in the lifestyle who've actually got themselves involved enough to test the currents, rather than be bamboozled by the surface bullshit, actually find themselves somewhere so far out on the fringes that they are in the area where the various philosophies begin to meet again 'the other side'.

I define myself as extreme and secular Liberal, very much opposed to "Big Government" whether it's Socialist, Fascist, Religious or Capitalist.

In practise I often find myself allied on particular issues with the kind of libertarian conservatives who believe in a low-tax and low-government-interference state, and even the kind of ex-communists who want to see the state system really withered away, like Marx said it would, (though it never did!).


I tend to believe that myself...but I'm only lightly libertarian, when it comes to certain personal freedoms.  I just can't be a part of the more anarchistic side of it.



slavekal -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 10:51:49 AM)

Libertarian philosophy is basically this.  Every adult person has the right to his/her own life and liberty, and to do whatever he/she chooses, as long as the rights of others are not being infringed.

Anarchy is quite different.  With anarchy nobody really has rights.  You can murder, steal, rape, whatever, because there is no law.  Libertarianism is about having laws that protect people and property, but that do not enforce arbitrary ideas of morality such as sex acts between consenting adults, which drugs are legal versus illegal, etc.



AtlantisKing111 -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 10:57:39 AM)

*shrug* Politically I'm a Conservative. Usually Republican, but I'd back Zell Miller (D) over John McCain (Rhino) any day.  My slave girls have tended to be moderate Democrats.



sirguym -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 12:04:58 PM)

[quote slavekal]

Libertarian philosophy is basically this.  Every adult person has the right to his/her own life and liberty, and to do whatever he/she chooses, as long as the rights of others are not being infringed.

[/quote]

I would not disagree with that; 'pure Liberalism', as John Stuart Mill, et al.

[quote slavekal]
Anarchy is quite different.  With anarchy nobody really has rights.  You can murder, steal, rape, whatever, because there is no law.  Libertarianism is about having laws that protect people and property, but that do not enforce arbitrary ideas of morality such as sex acts between consenting adults, which drugs are legal versus illegal, etc.
[/quote]

With all due respect, I believe that is not a definition that many actual archists would recognise or accept as valid

Rather, it is the stereotype that authoritarians try to impose on them in order to discredit even consideration of their philosophy.

But I would not try to speak on behalf of a philosophy with which I have but little sympathy, though I have some for anarcho-syndicalism.

[edited to get the quoting correct!]



slavekal -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 12:43:48 PM)

The dictionary definition of anarchy includes confusion, chaos, and the absence of any law.  I don't know if the anarchists have some new definition, but the dictionary has the standard definition.  And I would say that is probably the way most people would define the word.

I have noticed that most prople believe in libertarian principles for themselves, but not for other people.



NorthernGent -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 12:59:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My Daddy is a liberal, I am a socialist  anarchist.



Julia, the term socialist anarchist is a contradiction in terms. Socialism is irretrievably bound up in coercion; Anarchism is infused with the spirit of voluntary.

Chomsky is a social anarchist - a few letters between the two, yet a vastly different meaning.

I like what Chomsky has to say; his knowledge is something to behold. His solution? Well, either he's a hopeless romantic, or he's far ahead of his time.



NorthernGent -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 1:09:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I'll add that what is often called conservatism and liberalism today would surprise those people who originally created the philosophies behind the political movements and arguments. Even people who claimed such affiliation in the 1950s and 1960s would be surprised by what is being called conservative or liberal today.



The political landscape in this country supports your view. The British Conservative Party is to all intents and purposes a liberal party.



thetammyjo -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/2/2008 1:15:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

I'll add that what is often called conservatism and liberalism today would surprise those people who originally created the philosophies behind the political movements and arguments. Even people who claimed such affiliation in the 1950s and 1960s would be surprised by what is being called conservative or liberal today.



The political landscape in this country supports your view. The British Conservative Party is to all intents and purposes a liberal party.


Here in the USA, in my opinion but also based on what little history I know, Republicans have become beyond conservative, and Democrats have become more conservative. When people claim that the Left = Democrats I'd laugh because I think the Left would be something like Communism in the Marxist sense.

Pure communism, people actually living together as a community, might be lovely but frankly not very realistic beyond a small group I think.



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