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Rover -> RE: Political orientation of D/s practitioners ? (2/3/2008 6:21:18 AM)
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Do not dismiss my reply as politically slanted. It is purely factual.
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ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd
I am with you on both points.. both the reps and the dems have been far removed from what the partys once were.
The dems need to grow a pair and stop being such pussies. ( sorry for all those who have one, and are offended.) Stand up and fight. Stand up for something. If seven years of bungled opression unlawful wiretaps, lies, and numerous other horrific shit doesnt invigorate you to get off your bloody asses and make some changes then I have no use for the lot of ya.
"Bungled oppression" is certainly a debatable point, but legitimately debatable. "Unlawful wiretaps" is political rhetoric. "Lies" as in "Bush lied, people died" is also political rhetoric unless you want to redefine the term "lie". "Other horrific shit" simply stimulates the imagination, without even so much as an allegation much less a fact.
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Stop pandering freaking do something. Social change and equality with out all of the judgement and imposing on others would be nice.
Social change is not (supposed to be) a function of government. Society is supposed to foment social change, and government is not the tool for part of society to force it upon everyone else. If you validate government as the agent for social change, then you also validate government sponsored social change with which you do not agree.
And if you would would not like to have government mandated prayer (in school or anywhere else), criminalization of premarital sex, or government mandated language restrictions (not as an "official" language, but as a social requirement), then you will understand how a majority control of the government can impact the kind of social change being sponsored. It's not made "right" because you like the social change taking place. It's fundamentally wrong for the government to be in the social change business at all.
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Getting us out of the recession would be lovely as well. Usualy a war does that.. oops.. well that wont work.. and we are well past pulling it up from a project like another "Hoover Dam"
We are not in a recession. A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of negative growth. It's factually untrue to call the current economy a recession. And by comparison to previous recessions (I can recall three of them vividly in my adult life), the current economy is wildly successful (low unemployment, low rate of inflation, low interest rates). Perhaps you do not recall the days of stagflation with 20 % inflation, 18 % interest rates (imagine trying to buy a home at that rate) and an 8 % unemployment rate.
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As much as People spew about Dems just want to raise your taxes and spend spend spend.. um.. last time I checked when we had a dem in office there was a surplice, I was doing a hell of a lot better... I wasnt paying so many bloody taxes.. and the govt was a hell of a lot smaller and not encroaching on every aspect of my life *including* my sexuality, my sex life, and my family. WTF?
In those days the Republicans ran both the house and senate. Congress does the spending, not the President. Congress raises or lowers taxes, not the President (though the President can veto a tax increase, or any bill). So what you're saying is that you liked it better when there was a Republican congress.
There are many pundits who claim the Republicans were voted out in 2006 because they had lost the very fiscal restraint you (and many others) enjoyed during the 1990's. And I believe that claim has merit.
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The republican party got hijacked by a bunch of bible thumping wack jobs...
As I mentioned in a previous thread, the use of stereotypes doesn't do either party any good.
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...who want to control and ban abortion, the right to birth control access, anything having to do with sex...
See, this is what you get when you validate the government as the agent for social change. Sometimes you won't like what they want to change, and how they want to change it. Better that they not be allowed to be in the social change business at all.
And for the record, Republicans (and many Democrats) consider the Roe v. Wade to be one of those cases of governmental social engineering, the creation of legislation by the judiciary, and founded upon poorly considered reasoning. Overturning Roe v. Wade is admittedly something that many Republicans would like to see, but it's hardly at the top of their agenda. After all, they've controlled the Congress and the White House and have made no effort to do so. And remember, overturning Roe v. Wade would not outlaw abortion. It would simply remove the authority to regulate abortion from the federal government by way of the US Constitution ("The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.") and return that authority to the states.
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...lower taxes for the rich~ not the middle class...
Perhaps you missed my earlier post about federal taxes. The middle class aren't paying very much of them. In fact, 75 % of Americans (which surely includes the middle class) pay only 14 % of the fedaral taxes. You are sorely misinformed if you think the middle class is over taxed.
And if you think the rich are under taxed, consider that the top 1 % of wage earners pay 40 % of all federal income taxes. The top 5 % pay 60 % of all federal income taxes. The top 10 % pay 70 % of all federal income taxes. And the top 25 % pay 86 % of all federal income taxes. I do not believe you can credibly claim that the rich do not pay their fair share and a few other people's shares.
And lest you believe that the less fortunate amongst us are over burdened, consider that the bottom 50 % of wage earners pay only 3 % of all federal income taxes (that includes individuals making up to $ 31,000 per year).
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...drag us back to the dark ages with creationism in the schools...
Intelligent design is a theory, much as is Darwinian evolution. Evolution cannot be proven, and neither can intelligent design. On what basis do you conclude that one should be taught in schools, and not the other?
Besides, the federal government does not have the Constitutional right to determine what is and isn't taught in public schools. That right resides with the states and local school boards. The federal government does have the right to attach certain educational requirements to the funds it contributes to ensure that standardized test scores reflect acceptable achievement.
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...borrow and spend more money from the fed. reserve...
The government does not borrow or spend money from the Federal Reserve. In fact, the government has no control over the Federal Reserve or its policies. You do not understand basic economic functions in the US.
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...keep us indiffantly in a war we shouldnt have been in to bloody begin with...
That is a legitimately debatable issue. One that has been the subject of several previous election cycles. And one that continues to be debated within the Democrat party. It may or may not be a significant topic of debate in the current election cycle depending upon the status of the war at that time.
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...and be as intrusive as possible in everyones life (phone, cell and internet communication taps remember?)
The federal government has the Constitutional right to intercept foreign communications. The taps you're referring to involved at least one foreign participant who was a known or suspected terrorist. There's nothing illegal about that. Don't you find it odd that despite all the gnashing of teeth over this issue, not a single instance (not one) has ever been discovered in which US citizens were being listened to domestically?
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Does any of that sound fiscally responsible, small government, allow the states to rule, dont meddle to any of you?
Actually, much of what you posted isn't founded in fact. So it's no surprise that it isn't all that flattering (you seem predisposed to those things, true or not, that reflect poorly upon Republicans).
Though you do have a point, in that Republicans did lose their fiscal responsibility and small government commitment (think Medicare drug program) and that contributed greatly to their having been voted out of office in 2006.
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Personaly I want the Govt to stay the fuck out of making choices for me sexualy.. or about my family or spirituality.
Then surely you can understand why some people want the government not to be making decisions about the food we choose to eat, to stop using our schools for social engineering, and to stop playing Robin Hood. You think four years of war is long enough? How about a forty year war that has cost the American taxpayers (the half that pay taxes) over 7 trillion dollars with nothing to show for it. You're right, the war has been too costly and too long! End the war on poverty!!
Once you let the government start making decisions for you, you've opened Pandora's box. You can't have one without the other. Better that we have neither.
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...( there was this lovely bit about seperation of church and state some where back there... they forgot it.)
That lovely little bit was created in the 1940's and 1950's by a Supreme Court Justice named Hugo Black. Good ole Hugo was a racist KKK sympathizer, who (like most KKK members of the time) also hated the Catholic Church. And when presented with the opportunity, he created the theory of "separation of church and state" specifically to hinder Catholics in politics. Which is why someone like John F. Kennedy had to make speeches assuring people that he wouldn't be taking marching orders from the Pope. Sounds silly by today's standards, and it is.
So there's the origin of your separation of church and state. Are you proud of it?
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I want them to be responsible and not spend gobs of our money on silly shit and pork barrel projects.
Both parties are WAY too adept at that.
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I want the states to have more control over what happens in thier regions unless it is to discriminate against groups of people. ( discrimination should be banned period. All people should be equally protected.. even the fat ones for Crissakes! )
Gee, you sound like a Republican. Or at least a conservative. Welcome to the fold.
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< mutters about dumb rednecks in MS> I want smart, level headed people at the wheel who have enough experiance to get the jobs they are put in place done. ( FEMA comes to mind.. holy shit)
Don't ever rely upon the government to save you. That's the lesson of FEMA. Bill Clinton proved it in Florida, and George Bush proved it in Louisiana. And it will be proven time and again no matter who is in the White House or controls Congress.
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And our personaly liberties which this great nation of ours is built on should not be sold down the river because power hungry melgomanicas are at the bloody wheel.
They don't call those folks Republicans or Democrats. They call them politicians.
John
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