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Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 5:30:59 AM   
Veryleggyredhead


Posts: 27
Joined: 2/5/2006
From: Tampa
Status: offline 		Emotional Sadists
This term describes a type of abuser who blends well and easily into the fabric of the lifestyle. He in a top role can appear, at least initially to be in sync with others in his or her role. Many of these pseudo tops are proficent at manipulating others to believe that they are on the level. The most dangerous among them are charming, charismatic, confident and very convincing in their portrayal of themselves as a genuine top. The majority will seek out a bottom who is a distance way because their longterm objective, abusing a bottom emotionally will require that the bottom leave their own community and join the top in her or hers, limiting the bottom's support system. This type of individual will (until they have gained a significant degree of control) appear to be loving, nurturing, protective, and everything we bottoms seek in a sane, safe, responsible, and caring top. The other shoe drops later, and drops hard. The emotional sadist will employ any number of strategies, and not just those I will list here, to undermine the bottoms self esteem and establish absolute contol, ie: projection, (they do something insensitive or cruel, then attack you when you attempt to address it) periodic and ongoing abandonment, continual critisism, attacks on the state of your mental stability (attempts to lead you to question whether you are perceiving reality accurately or are unbalanced), and questioning on a continuim your commitment to them. I have read here and elsewhere comments from both subs and slaves who avow that their top is always right and that they as a bottom have no choice or say so in how they are viewed or treated. Individuals with this mindset are an easy and ongoing targets for the emotional sadist. Am posting this here as this is an educational forum and I suspect there are bottoms who have encountered this type of abuser, who may well be able to add something of substance to my description here which will further educate a novice on alt and prevent him or her from falling prey to such an individual.
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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 5:34:04 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		we teach people how to treat us.


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This is him

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(in reply to Veryleggyredhead)
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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 5:35:43 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Personally, I enjoy emotional abuse.
What's more; safe sane consensual...not really my bag of tricks

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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 5:49:49 AM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline 		I think the opening quote is a he said/she said complaint, at best.  I've certainly had subs reject me because I was "too nice."  These were not whacked out crack hoes, but sensible women with professional jobs.  I've also had a sub making ever-increasing demands on me once she thought she had landed me.  Incomplete example: "tell me what to wear for the date next week."  I did.  Next day, "tell me what to wear, a different outfit."  Uh, ok, but I did.  This happened twice more, so I cancelled the date.  Some subs really are mentally unstable.  It's not always the Dom's fault, or the man's fault.

And PS, Mist: I'm glad to see you posting.

(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 5:51:36 AM   
IrishMist


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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

And PS, Mist: I'm glad to see you posting.

I am a glutton for punishment; what can I say

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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 5:55:06 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		You do know that there are people who enjoy the craft of emotional sadism right?  It's their kink.  It's what they do.  You may consider it abuse, they may consider it who they are.

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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 6:00:19 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veryleggyredhead

Emotional Sadists
This term describes a type of abuser who blends well and easily into the fabric of the lifestyle.


Why are emotional sadists all abusers?  Are physical sadists all abusers?  Don't you think this is an uninformed stereotype?

quote:


He in a top role can appear, at least initially to be in sync with others in his or her role. Many of these pseudo tops are proficent at manipulating others to believe that they are on the level. The most dangerous among them are charming, charismatic, confident and very convincing in their portrayal of themselves as a genuine top.


Why aren't they "genuine" Tops?  What makes them "pseudo-Tops"?  Is that anything like triceritops?  Are all sadists "pseudo-Tops" and not "genuine", or just the emotional sadists?

quote:


The majority will seek out a bottom who is a distance way because their longterm objective, abusing a bottom emotionally will require that the bottom leave their own community and join the top in her or hers, limiting the bottom's support system.


And this is based upon what study?  Is there any evidence to support this other than a fertile imagination?  There very well may be, but it would be important to know about it in order to put this claim into context.

quote:


This type of individual will (until they have gained a significant degree of control) appear to be loving, nurturing, protective, and everything we bottoms seek in a sane, safe, responsible, and caring top. The other shoe drops later, and drops hard.


There are plenty of emotional masochists out there who would be grateful to find an emotional sadist for a consensual relationship (just as physical sadists find consensual physical masochists).  Why is it assumed that emotional sadists uniquely obtain partners via subterfuge and deceit?

quote:


The emotional sadist will employ any number of strategies, and not just those I will list here, to undermine the bottoms self esteem and establish absolute contol, ie: projection, (they do something insensitive or cruel, then attack you when you attempt to address it) periodic and ongoing abandonment, continual critisism, attacks on the state of your mental stability (attempts to lead you to question whether you are perceiving reality accurately or are unbalanced), and questioning on a continuim your commitment to them.


Gee, now here is someone who personally dislikes emotional sadism passing judgment on it for the entirety of BDSM.  You might as well have Jerry Falwell or the National Organization of Women pass judgment on physical sadism, and pawn it off here as if it objective.  This is a well written article, proving that even well written articles can be full of crap.

quote:


I have read here and elsewhere comments from both subs and slaves who avow that their top is always right and that they as a bottom have no choice or say so in how they are viewed or treated. Individuals with this mindset are an easy and ongoing targets for the emotional sadist.


I'm not aware of anyone that is "always right", but if their relationship isn't working for them then they always have the right to end it.  Statements like this portray slaves/submissives as mindless, irresponsible automatons who must be protected from themselves and their own bad decisions.

quote:


Am posting this here as this is an educational forum and I suspect there are bottoms who have encountered this type of abuser, who may well be able to add something of substance to my description here which will further educate a novice on alt and prevent him or her from falling prey to such an individual.


Ah, the predictable educational and protection disclaimer.  What would we do if such learned minds were not out there protecting all the poor little subbie wubbies who are all just victims in waiting? 
 
Where's the puke icon?
 
John

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(in reply to Veryleggyredhead)
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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 6:00:21 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		why is the "emotional sadist" part of your post a link to the login page of alt?

just curious....

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 6:10:33 AM   
MsLadySue


Posts: 2254
Joined: 12/18/2004
Status: offline 		"may well be able to add something of substance to my description here which will further educate a novice on alt and prevent him or her from falling prey to such an individual."

Why do you post this information on collarme then go on to mention "further educate a novice on alt"?

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I love it when someone insults me. That means I don't have to be nice anymore.

(in reply to Veryleggyredhead)
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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 7:05:40 AM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline 		1.  Their longterm objective . . . will require that the bottom leave their own community and join the top in her or hers, limiting the bottom's support system. 

2.   The emotional sadist will employ any number of strategies ... to undermine the bottoms self esteem and establish absolute contol, ie: projection, (they do something insensitive or cruel, then attack you when you attempt to address it) periodic and ongoing abandonment, continual critisism, attacks on the state of your mental stability (attempts to lead you to question whether you are perceiving reality accurately or are unbalanced), and questioning on a continuim your commitment to them.

reworded:

1.  Will isolate the victim

2.  Will refuse to take responsibility for own actions; try to convince victim that he/she cannot trust his/her own judgement; try to gain complete control over the victim, including his/her ability to leave; displays extreme possessiveness and jealousy.

These are just the characteristics of an abuser and not specific to D&s.

quote:

I have read here and elsewhere comments from both subs and slaves who avow that their top is always right and that they as a bottom have no choice or say so in how they are viewed or treated. Individuals with this mindset are an easy and ongoing targets for the emotional sadist.


Yes.  If it's a bad idea to get involved with an abuser in the vanilla world, it's no better an idea in the world of D/s.

But I take that "no choice" thing with a grain of salt.  The critical point may be:  Can you safely leave the relationship?  If so, you have a choice.  If not, it is not safe, sane or consentual.  Beyond that, I'm not sure there is a line you could draw - that this relationship is abusive and that one is not; that this Dom is abusive and that one is not.  It becomes a matter of personal preference and perception.

(in reply to Veryleggyredhead)
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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 7:10:17 AM   
lauren0221


Posts: 681
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline 		Emotional sadism, in skilled hands, can be an amazing and wonderful thing. Perhaps you are confusing it with emotional abuse?

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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 7:16:11 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lauren0221

Emotional sadism, in skilled hands, can be an amazing and wonderful thing. Perhaps you are confusing it with emotional abuse?

Ahh but see, that is where things can actually become confusing. Who defines abuse? Who defines sadism?

I know what abuse is; and in my own relationships...I perfer abuse over sadism; sadism does not take me as far as I need to go. But whose place is it to say whether its healthy for me or not? Yours? The person next to you? Or the person down the street? Each individual has to decide for themselves what they are capable of handling; no one can do it for them.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 7:18:06 AM   
Dari


Posts: 192
Joined: 10/8/2007
Status: offline 		So how would humiliation play feature in your interesting (though mostly stereotypical and bordering on the absurd) view of the world?  I mean - isn't a lot of humiliation play emotional sadism - manipulating another's emotions in a way that causes them pain, or humiliation, or any number of negative feelings (though if you're into it, it's hot - much the same way pain is for physical masochists, right?)?  So then all those Dom/mes who engage in humiliation play - and/or emotional sadism - are pseudo-Tops and abusers?

It's Saturday - don't you have someone you can play with instead of making absurd stereotypes? 

Emotional abuse of the unwilling makes me angry - it's wrong, it's cruel, it's evil, and it's so difficult to help someone who has been emotionally abused get better, because the scars are on the inside.  (Kitten, if you're reading this - yes, I'm thinking about you right now)

That being said - a little emotional sadism between friends can be a lot of fun, and leave nothing behind but a deep emotional attachment brought on by two people who really understand what makes the other person tick.

(edited to take in IrishMist's latest post - if you're into it, go for it - but it's the non-consensual that I have problems with)


< Message edited by Dari -- 2/2/2008 7:19:15 AM >

(in reply to lauren0221)
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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 7:20:32 AM   
lauren0221


Posts: 681
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

ORIGINAL: lauren0221

Emotional sadism, in skilled hands, can be an amazing and wonderful thing. Perhaps you are confusing it with emotional abuse?

Ahh but see, that is where things can actually become confusing. Who defines abuse? Who defines sadism?

I know what abuse is; and in my own relationships...I perfer abuse over sadism; sadism does not take me as far as I need to go. But whose place is it to say whether its healthy for me or not? Yours? The person next to you? Or the person down the street? Each individual has to decide for themselves what they are capable of handling; no one can do it for them.


I agree, Irish. May be one of those many thangs that only we can define for ourselves.

Edited to add - I have experienced both emotional sadism and emotional abuse, and knew the difference when I saw it. It may be related to intent?

< Message edited by lauren0221 -- 2/2/2008 7:25:27 AM >

(in reply to IrishMist)
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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 7:24:19 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		I think a lot of people who like to "educate" all the submissives about all the different types of bad men out there are just trying to project their own bad experiences into some psychological profile.

Nothing wrong with sharing experiences and recounting bad times for people to learn from, but writings like these make me sicks. It does nothing but create some kind of "fear of the boogeyman behind every bush" mentality.

Much like the all too face "A true sadist is a psychopath" articles that pop up every once in and awhile, this one is making one hell of a stretch from  the simple definition of emotional sadism to this fictional abstract character.

Kind of like some predictable animal on the Crocidile Hunter...

"Crike! Those emotional sadists sure do like to bite when cornered! Watch out ladies! Don't you mention their insensitvity or cruelness! They will rattle their tails, pull back their heads and attack!"


< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 2/2/2008 7:28:10 AM >

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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 8:12:34 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
Emotional S&M is just as valid as the physical when it is practiced with consent
Perhaps this person you are trying to educate (protect? warn?) would better benefit from a discussion on taking time to learn what they want/ don’t want in a relationship and standing firm regarding their emotional needs.

< Message edited by catize -- 2/2/2008 8:14:34 AM >

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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 8:14:03 AM   
batshalom


Posts: 1990
Joined: 9/17/2007
Status: offline 		Thank GOD I read this topic. I feel much safer now. Buncha psychos.

(in reply to MadRabbit)
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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 8:16:42 AM   
MadRabbit


Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: batshalom

Thank GOD I read this topic. I feel much safer now. Buncha psychos.


The best way to stay safe is not to pick cauliflower on a Wednesday. Crike! The fresh smell of those heads drives those emotional sadists wild!

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to batshalom)
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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 8:22:31 AM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veryleggyredhead

I have read here and elsewhere comments from both subs and slaves who avow that their top is always right and that they as a bottom have no choice or say so in how they are viewed or treated. Individuals with this mindset are an easy and ongoing targets for the emotional sadist..


The link did not work for me, so you might want to post a snippet of what it's about.  In reference to your comment above, there's nothing wrong with having a service oriented belief that the D or M controls the majority of decisions, however, obviously it implies that one has the sense to not escalate the relationship to that point until they are sure that the trust is warranted and clearly the line stops where true abuse begins (and of course abuse is defined by the person in the relationship, not us or an article).  Sadly, too often that is not the case.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

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RE: Emotional Sadists - 2/2/2008 8:28:38 AM   
DisenchantedLife


Posts: 193
Status: offline 		I think you are all wacked, but luckily so is 99.9% of the human race

quote:

Ahh but see, that is where things can actually become confusing. Who defines abuse? Who defines sadism?


I'll go ahead and nominate myself. 

Abuse - something that begins to destroy the inside of you and the outside of you.  Instead of becoming "all that you can be", you become less than you can be.  It knocks you down and eventually starts to suffocate you.  Your life becomes unhealthy.  You stop moving forward.  You go down hill.

I would also add that the difference between sadism and abuse is the honesty involved.  Abusers tend to lie, hide, deny what they are doing.  Sadists tend to be honest, up front, and are concerned that what is happening is consensual.  They also tend to care that you are thriving with it. 

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