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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 6:56:00 AM

RealityLicks

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan

We are gradually losing our identity and I personally feel it's that in which lies the shame.

Can't agree, I'm afraid. Never believed culture was set in aspic and wouldn't want to be part of one that was. If we remained stuck in the whimsical fable of the past, Lady Chatterly's Lover would be a banned book.

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 6:56:26 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I am not saying though to be racist, but if who ever comes here and tries to fit in to my country, I will give them every respect due another Englishman and call them the English they desire to be, race, religion, culture is irrelevant.

I have those of Asian descent in the family, and they drink Real Ale, in pubs and are very much English.

I would take the argument further and suggest that a person doesn't need to have lived here to be 'English'. I think Englishness is a choice bound by certain codes of behaviour that people living outside of this country can choose to take or leave. Englishness has everything to do with grooming, and nothing whatsoever to do with blood. You don't need to be living inside of our borders to be groomed; you simply need an appreciation of England and Englishness. There are plenty of people all over this world that aspire to the virtues that were once considered to be the hallmarks of the English gentleman (and ladies, too).

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 6:56:36 AM

Lucylastic

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Monty Python,
Morecambe and Wise
The Goodies,
UP Pompeii
Carry On movies
Young Ones,
Not the nine oclock news
Jasper Carrott
Ive got a lot of stuff on my hard drive, its just finding time to watch them all again
ok tv done im sure theres more tho

Food....
eccles cakes, spotted dick, chish n fips, jellied eels, cornish pasties, devon/cornwall clotted cream, ploughmans lunch, mushy peas, black puddin, faggots(mrs brains), yorkshire puddin, kendall mint cake, goosegogs,
Bitter lemon
Mayday celebrations around the maypole, yes St Georges day, you never hear of it outside of the uk (is my wedding anniversary tooo).
ok, Im gonna stop, Im wondering how much British airways flight is
slightly homesick
Lucy

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 6:59:57 AM

RCdc

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This is Darcy

It's true that some of us Englishfolk seem to be always moaning about the state of the country and how it's not as good as it used to be (yes, I'm looking at me too here

), but I do agree that we have much to be happy and celebratory about, so here's my little list of English sunshine......

> Real ale - how I love the fact that we seem to be the only country on earth that can produce a proper pint of ale. What can compare to a pint of Bombadier? Or the old Theakston's Old Peculiar (though not too much, mind, as it's strong stuff)? How about the wonderful but little know Brakspear brewery? I adore beer festivals, and coming from Nottingham have been lucky enough to visit one of the largest in the country many times (most recently last year).

> Comedy - yes, funny programmes (that's programs for our US viewers ;) ) that don't require a laugh track. I have yet to see anything to rival Python at its best, to beat Blackadder in the guffaw stakes, to satisfy my sci-fi chuckles like the early series (that's seasons for our US viewers ;) ) of Red Dwarf (except maybe for the so-bad-it's-hilarious US pilot of the show that missed the point by several light years), or send me off to the hernia specialist like the timeless Fawlty Towers.

> Music - for my personal tastes, I give you Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, Queen, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, Eric Clapton, Depeche Mode, and Gary Numan (it's my list, so he's in!). Fabulous Brits, all.

> The seaside! There's nothing, and I mean nothing, like a walk down the seafront at somewhere like Blackpool, Clacton, or Skegness, with a portion of cod and chips wrapped in last Sunday's newspaper, the hungry gulls swooping and squawking around your head, the wind threatening to induce mild hypothermia, and the sea crashing in on the beach where several dozen families cower behind windbreaks determined to have a good time, dammit!

> London - 'nuff said. Covent Garden, Trafalgar Square, Camden, Soho, all unique experiences. Plus, the Underground - I love the tube! (Though after seeing Creep I am a little more cautious around Charing Cross station ;) )

There we go, just a few of the things I love.

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 7:13:42 AM

Aneirin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I am not saying though to be racist, but if who ever comes here and tries to fit in to my country, I will give them every respect due another Englishman and call them the English they desire to be, race, religion, culture is irrelevant.

I have those of Asian descent in the family, and they drink Real Ale, in pubs and are very much English.

I would take the argument further and suggest that a person doesn't need to have lived here to be 'English'. I think Englishness is a choice bound by certain codes of behaviour that people living outside of this country can choose to take or leave. Englishness has everything to do with grooming, and nothing whatsoever to do with blood. You don't need to be living inside of our borders to be groomed; you simply need an appreciation of England and Englishness. There are plenty of people all over this world that aspire to the virtues that were once considered to be the hallmarks of the English gentleman (and ladies, too).

That, I am inclined to agree with, Englishness is not a blood line.

Recently I believe there was one of these 'Trace your Ancestors' programmes, where an Briton of Indian descent finally discovered he had family in the land of his fathers. He went there, and met this family to find they were pure British in the old sense of the word. Of largely Indian race, but with British names and wearing British Attire, speaking English and with an accent. Wow, impressive thinks I.

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 8:09:48 AM

kittinSol

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Northy - just wanted to make one thing clear. I am actually English. As well as French. I have dual nationalities, dual parentage, and I lived in England most of my adult life.

Next: England for the resilience and for the courage of the people, the self-deprecating humour, The League of Gentlemen ('This is a local shop, for local people. We'll have no trouble here'), the dance music, The Smiths and Radiohead.

More to follow...

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 8:12:35 AM

SL4V3M4YB3

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Feel them nipples, they are like bullets.

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 8:26:44 AM

LadyEllen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

With this in mind, where would you like to go? What are your hopes and aspirations for the future of our country? What are the hallmarks of Englishness that you wish to take into the future?

1) Britain is dead; perhaps, but even if the elements which make up Britain go their separate ways - which is by no means necessarily economically viable for some of those elements, the peoples of this island are irretrievably interconnected in such a way that British will be an appellation long used into the future.

2) Where to go?; The costas of Spain perhaps? (aka Little Britain On The Sea). No. We can and must sort ourselves out, because we made our country the way it is and so we can solve the less than ideal aspect of the results of that - there is also an argument that we are who we are, even if none can define that too well, and would only turn wherever we went into the same place - ie the costas of Spain.

3) Hopes & Aspirations;
a) that we can do away with our pretence to Empire - both the guilt we're meant to feel and the human and financial costs of trying to be a superpower when we're not - such costs are better expended here on our own, and our own includes all those living here.
b) that we can find something to unite our disparate cultures and develop a new common identity and role in the world. No more prejudice and discrimination based on the ridiculous notion that skin tone or the name one uses for God or whom one chooses to partner with (etc) is at all important as to character or validity. One people, a combine of all, drawing on all which is best.
c) that we are able to overcome two corrosive influences on us - the pursuit of the interests of global capital the expense of our people and the pursuit of a wrong headed form of socialism which relies on its perpetuation of exclusion of certain groups for its survival. This latter includes the wrong headed form of multi-culturalism that has been pursued here for decades - we must recognise and build on our commonalities and common interests, not promote that which divides us.
d) that we can regain our position as the innovation and manufacturing giant we once were - providing thereby a reduction in the influence of global capital on our economy and a reduction in exclusion of elements of our population. Through this to promote wealth for all and especially to ensure a wider access to wealth and reduce the wealth divide growing here for decades - and thereby generally improve society too.
e) an end to the CofE as part of the state - instead all religions to be represented (and I mean all). An end to our unrepresentative form of democracy so that more voices are heard and taken into account.
f) lots more, but I'd be here all day;

4) Hallmarks of Englishness for the future;
a) that which is useful and needful from all the cultures found here now towards realising the hopes and aspirations above.
b) certainly not just that which is indigenous to England, but we can probably all agree to cricket, curry, tea, driving on the left and being friendly and hospitable to all unless they start trouble.

The real question is whether the above has to come about by evolution, or whether it could be encouraged by artificial means. I'd like to think the latter might be possible - but mankind in general seems to have a poor record on that sort of thing and evolution may be the only way.

E

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 8:35:40 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Northy - just wanted to make one thing clear. I am actually English. As well as French. I have dual nationalities, dual parentage, and I lived in England most of my adult life.

Next: England for the resilience and for the courage of the people, the self-deprecating humour, The League of Gentlemen ('This is a local shop, for local people. We'll have no trouble here'), the dance music, The Smiths and Radiohead.

More to follow...

Ah, Radiohead.... We get to see them in June - it's be my fourth and Darcys' first... radiohead virgin that he is...

the.dark.

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 9:29:59 AM

Aneirin

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What with talk of real ale and food we all like, are we not just hobbits in reality?

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 9:32:40 AM

RealityLicks

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Well, they always say "old hobbits die hard."

Ba doom tish.

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 9:46:10 AM

kittinSol

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It's quite obvious that 'The Shire' is England, isn't it? A question: is England's insularity that created English eccentricity?

PS:

quote:

ORIGINAL RealityLicks

Well, they always say "old hobbits die hard."

Oh, man...

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 2/3/2008 9:47:33 AM >

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 10:23:22 AM

RealityLicks

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I often wondered the same thing: England as a nation of social marsupials!

I think there's less eccentricity than we'd like to believe but I put it down to a society that distrusts intellectuals - which forces the square pegs amongst us to strike out alone and thereby be seen as eccentric, when really they're just expressing themselves. That and the impact of people like Ruskin, which formed an effective counter-balance in a country under upheaval from the effects of it's early entry to industrialisation. There's a persistent strain of Romanticism in English (and in fact British) culture.

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 12:24:22 PM

Aneirin

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Romanticism eh, well thatl be the celt in us.

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 12:29:36 PM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Well, they always say "old hobbits die hard."

Ba doom tish.

*groans*

the.dark.

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/3/2008 5:36:44 PM

Aneirin

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That's it, England has gone to bed, I will switch off the light, goodnight.

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RE: For the attention of the English. - 2/4/2008 1:43:49 AM

meatcleaver

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England doesn't exist except in the head of the English and on the sports field. There is absolutly no legal entity call England and it is not recognized in by any international political institution as a country. Even Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are recognized in the EU as nations, England however, is recognized as a series of regions of Britain.

Perhaps the English have allowed themselves to be governed by the Scots too often.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 2/4/2008 1:45:00 AM >

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