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Smith117 -> RE: I am a feminist. (2/7/2008 12:26:31 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
Perhaps it's because you say TOO MUCH? You seem to have this obsessive need to respond to every phrase, and never let a thing rest. I cannot imagine a situation where you would step down and say that you agree to disagree, you MUST have the last word, and prove that lady wrong matter what! Is it the arrogance of youth, or some cultural thing? Or are you just very obstreperous? I certainly have never sensed any kind of vindictiveness coming from you, just a know it all attitude and a pervasive smugness. There's another young dom on the boards that strikes me in much the same way.
I can't (and wouldn't presume to) speak for Aswad, but this paragraph strikes a chord with me. A descriptive one at that. I know full-well that I have a similar need to respond as thoroughly as possible. And there's a lot to be said for having the last word, especially in a debate in which you feel you are right. Thoroughness, for me, is often an attempt to leave no discussionary stone unturned, as it were. If I am as thorough as possible and as logical as possible, then there is little fault that can be found with what I say. In my mind, as with many men, this is the way to win a debate, argument, fight, etc. However, I once read an article about arguing with women wherein the writer said one of the key issues in arguments between a man and his significant other was that the man will use logic, because it makes sense, but on the receiving end, it just makes the woman feel stupid or belittled. Condescending tones and logical arguments apparently have a habit of going hand in hand. It's difficult, sometimes, to demonstrate knowledge of an issue without sounding that way, I guess.
An ex once told me that she noticed that 'quirk' of mine most often when I would begin a sentence with "Actually..." She said she felt as though by saying "actually," I was completely dismissing her point of view or her knowledge on the subject.
Though I would submit an alternate theory. Given the various articles and sources I have read over the years, it would appear to me that this is just a perception issue. Many (not all) women have this 'quirk' where you can tell them what you 'meant' by a phrase or a statement, but they will always hold in the back of their mind what they initially took the statement to mean. This leads to circular arguments that never solve anything because while the guy is trying to address one issue, and move onto the next in some sort of sequence, the woman will continue to harken back to her initial reaction to the first issue, thus upsetting the entire process.
This was demonstrated perfectly by a scenario laid out by a local radio host here who once described an argument with his girlfriend:
He was angry over a certain issue, (I forget which now because it's been quite awhile) and she reacted harshly to his expression of that anger. Because he said something that made her feel stupid. He then told her that was not what he meant by what he said, and attempted to address the underlying issue that angered him, but she repeatedly harkened back to his comment making her feel like he was calling her stupid, despite his repeated reiteration that he did not, in fact, call her stupid.
They went on to discuss the argument on his show and he theorized that, for lack of a better idea, he would have to get a large drawing board and lay out the issues in the discussion and then point to each and say "okay, this one is handled, you felt stupid, I have said that I didn't call, nor mean to infer that you were stupid." And then if that point was brought up later in the argument he could point to the board and go "ah ah ah.....see? we already handled that.....that's NOT what I said."
I think the main problem with how men and women speak and how they react is exactly that. We 'react.' I was a HUGE reactor. It lead to me blowing my top fairly regularly because I had perceived that someone was insulting me or in some way insinuating something about me that I did not like. Now that I'm a bit older and wiser, in those instances, I will often say "So....did you mean to give this kind of perception? Because that's what came across." And then if that's not the intent, we can address the real intent and move on. Other times I will simply temper the reaction that I know is coming with an equal and opposite measure ie. if someone makes a quick, insulting retort, I will respond with a similar one. I do that not out of anger, but moreso out of a desire to, for lack of a better phrase, hold a mirror up to them. It is similar to 'asking' if they meant to insult me, but more....visual, so to speak. Basically, if I'm called dumb, I call that person dumb. Then when they call me on it, I can say somethign like "well, I thought we were critiquing each other's intellect." And that, often, will give them enough pause to consider their choice of words, if indeed their intent was not supposed to be insulting.
Damn I'm wordy.
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