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Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/8/2005 9:41:48 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		This may not be the appropriate place for this post, but I placed it here, because most of the posts concerning these topics were made here ... and this a high profile section of this website.

There have been quite a few posts in the last few months concerning abuse, cheating, and worthlessness, AS THEY RELATED TO BDSM ACTIVITY ... that last part being the key, that the posts were actually on topic and within the scope of this forum.

There have been many responses, discussing how many fake abuse victims there are, how people shouldn't cheat, and how many people feel profound self worth. I'm not sure what purpose these posts serve other than being self-serving, and congrats to these folks on having their life so together ... but the real question is: What do opinions about the conduct of other people, have to do with BDSM, and why aren't these posts made in the appropriate section, that being the "Off Topic Discussions" section?

The answer of course is given in the first paragraph of this thread. This is a high profile area of the website ... and when posting an evocative mind-fuck ... what better place to do it.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/8/2005 10:42:29 AM   
MsIncognito


Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

What do opinions about the conduct of other people, have to do with BDSM, and why aren't these posts made in the appropriate section, that being the "Off Topic Discussions" section?


Actually, I disagree with your assessment. IMO, the reason they are posted here (and belong here) is because they are about human relationships. There is no specific "relationships' section so it all goes under general bdsm discussion. As much as some people like to think of themselves as holier than thou because they're involved in BDSM the fact of the matter is that peopel are people and some behave in ways that we don't like or agree with, but such is life.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/8/2005 2:53:49 PM   
subcheryl


Posts: 280
Joined: 11/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

quote:

What do opinions about the conduct of other people, have to do with BDSM, and why aren't these posts made in the appropriate section, that being the "Off Topic Discussions" section?


Actually, I disagree with your assessment. IMO, the reason they are posted here (and belong here) is because they are about human relationships. There is no specific "relationships' section so it all goes under general bdsm discussion. As much as some people like to think of themselves as holier than thou because they're involved in BDSM the fact of the matter is that peopel are people and some behave in ways that we don't like or agree with, but such is life.




I find them educational also and they also help me to realize that my standards that I set for myself are also shared by others in this life that we live. This is also a place of discussions and a place that we are able to share our veiws, whether we agree or disagree, that is what discussion is all about in my opinion, the sharing of ideas and feelings.

(in reply to MsIncognito)
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RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/8/2005 6:20:49 PM   
FTopinMichigan


Posts: 571
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

Actually, I disagree with your assessment. IMO, the reason they are posted here (and belong here) is because they are about human relationships. There is no specific "relationships' section so it all goes under general bdsm discussion. As much as some people like to think of themselves as holier than thou because they're involved in BDSM the fact of the matter is that peopel are people and some behave in ways that we don't like or agree with, but such is life.


Well said, MsIncognito!

I'd much rather read, and learn from other's experiences and opinions, than to make my own mistakes all the time.

I enjoy reading the Forums, and especially posts with contrary views.
K

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/8/2005 8:53:19 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Fair enough, and I can't say that I don't agree with your opinion. I tend to think anything posted by anyone is fair game.

My question of course would be ... what exactly are you learning about when you read a post like "My Neighbors TV", that you didn't already know before that post was made? Some people strongly supported Merc's position, but I would bet you that literally 100% of those people had that opinion before the post was made, have it now, and will have it tomorrow.

But, being objective for a moment ... does Merc (who is one of the best posters on here), personally know the people he is commenting on by implication in that post? Does he know their situation, or what difficulties they may be having? If the answer is no, exactly how much worth does his post really have, past the point that it was very well written? If the answer is no he doesn't know them, then the post may be interesting ... but you aren't learning from it ... just giving more affirmation to a postion you already have.

The same can be said of some of the abuse posts. Someone like pinkpleasures posts some potentually useful information on abuse, and is literally trashed relentlessly on these boards. Then we get the ten page posts about all the people that scream abuse and are really not abused and how many people actually abuse, abuse.

Again, that's fine, people have the right to post what they want ... but exactly what is anyone learning from these responses? Did you not know before that post that this was going on? If you did, then you are really not learning anything ... just agreeing with someone that agrees with you.

I really don't mean this thread to be snarky ... I'm just an aggressive poster ... but all this stuff reminds me of the last election. It was my first time being that involved in the process, and I tried to take it very seriously. After a while, I couldn't help notice that nobody actually stood for anything ... they were just trashing whatever the other person stood for, and engaging in character assassination. That's what these response posts remind me of ... someone makes a post ON TOPIC about something that may be bothering them ... and a certain element feels the need to smash, trash, and spindle anything they have to say ... all in the interest of "learning."

Learning what??????? ... listening to comments made about complete strangers?????

Maybe I'm being too idealistic, but I just feel that what other people do with their marriage, or how they deal or don't deal with their their problems, or what they do with their bodies ... those things are just not my business. Even more so, when I don't even personally know the people in question.

To me, that is just not my business. I might read about it, and not agree with it. It might even bother me, it might even anger me ... but before I comment on something that isn't my business, maybe I will just take a dose of STFU.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 9/8/2005 8:57:29 PM >

(in reply to FTopinMichigan)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/8/2005 9:04:02 PM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		Nope...Merc doesn't know me at all. Not a thing about me. We've never exchanged a single word. Does it bother me that I've been trashed...not a bit. I really couldn't care less what you think of me. I was looking for a specific answer and after weeding through the posts I did get it. Like I said before... what anyone does in their personal life is their own business. Not mine.

< Message edited by Aileen68 -- 9/8/2005 9:05:57 PM >

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/8/2005 9:10:12 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		This whole topic reminds me of the "Moral Majority" ... I just had no idea that BDSM had such a thing.

(in reply to Aileen68)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/8/2005 9:12:04 PM   
Aileen68


Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		I agree. Who would have ever thought.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/8/2005 9:37:29 PM   
itzelwing


Posts: 37
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

This whole topic reminds me of the "Moral Majority" ... I just had no idea that BDSM had such a thing.


Every community has such a thing, Caitlyn, and it would be worth getting used to. To rage against this machine is to butt heads with the very universe. Even if you bring it to a staggering stalemate, you're still gonna end up with nothing but a headache.

You know, once, a very long time ago, I thought I was a pretty unique person. I had the idea that my thoughts and actions were somehow different from those of any other individual.

Time and experience, however, have shown me the error of that kind of egocentric thinking. I find now, that no matter how profound the consideration, odds are pretty good there are a lot of people who've reached that same point before me... and many more will reach it after me, albeit without my assistance.

Point being, a web forum is the ideal place to spout off... to sing out about the things that bother us, whether they be judgement of someone else's kink, or a political rant about some state that still maintains legal injunction against those of us who chose to love differently. And although you may think your perspective is a "gimme", a lot of other folks are just not getting there... and may never have arrived there without the help of a site such as this one.

As far as comments or judgements about complete strangers? Sorry, but if you put it on the Internet, then you ought to be prepared for the fallout. Aileen did it, and I can only hope she was up for the challenge of the replies she received. I know she didn't ask for personal commentary, but by the very act of posting up... well... sorry to say it, but she invited it upon herself.

Same with many other posters on this list...

Point is, this is the INTERNET! It is a global community, but it is a totally anonymous community. Sure, my profile says I'm in the SF Bay Area of California... but who knows that I'm not really living in Roswell, New Mexico. Or frigging Bangladesh as far as that goes. I can say anything I like, and there's nobody on this list who can do anything about it. I seriously doubt anyone here is gonna come punch me in the face over something I said. I'd call that carte blanche. And a lot of people are more than happy to take advantage of that.

If you want REAL LIFE... then get off the computer and get involved in REAL LIFE. I see all these people looking for "Mr Right" or "Ms/mrs Right". You know what? Odds are slim that you're going to get a lot of satisfaction off this site. Better to spend your time finding out about the local scene. Get out there, and meet REAL players and REAL people who you can truly get to know. I recently learned that in my own southern baptist redneck hometown, there is an entire group dedicated to Hedonism and SM. Holy sheep shit... but I never would have imagined! Where would I be now if I'd known this 10 years ago? Who knows? But I digress.

I jumped track at the idea that the Internet is a good place to learn about the local scene and events, but NOT a good place to meet REAL people.

If you want to meet a REAL master/sub/dom/domme/slave/etc.... well turn off the damned IBM and head to the nearest dungeon. Look someone in the eye, and tell that person your limits and desires. Hear what that person wants, and needs.. then make the call. You'd be surprised what you can find... at the honesty you can discover... if you'll only get outside of this world of anonymity and get into the REAL world.

On the other hand, if you're into the whole virtual experience... well go for it. This is the place. The whole world is watching, quite literally, as you flail through cyberspace in search of a fantasy. But if you choose to publish your fantasy for the whole world to see... then you need to be ready for the whole world to react. And that reaction may very well NOT support your personal agenda.

Nothing personal, Caitlyn (or Aileen either)... but you have to remember where you are.





_____________________________

Master, Friend, and Lover of ItzKat

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/8/2005 11:40:57 PM   
buffiyum


Posts: 119
Status: offline


Itzelwing Sir,

A lotta good points You made, if one may say that. i just wish please to comment on one thing which You mentioned.
When it comes to learning of or participating in, bdsm 'scening' and Tthose who partake of those things (yummm), i have to agree that getting off the net and heading to a munch and then to a play party is the 'way to go'.
When it comes to meeting a potential Oone however, the net is as good a place as any to begin.
i base this on my own experiences and also on the experiences of Oothers who i know in r/l. Some of the most successful collars that i see daily have come as a result of meeting Ppeople in places such as this.
On the other hand, some of the worst collars i know of, have occurred as a result of meeting Ssomeone in r/l for the initial encounter, rather than having met Tthem 'online'.
Where Wwe meet a Oone is not the issue (at least in buffys mind) .... but rather the honesty and honoure which each brings to the encounter, whereever it takes place.
respectfully submitted,
buffy

< Message edited by buffiyum -- 9/8/2005 11:49:22 PM >

(in reply to itzelwing)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/9/2005 2:41:27 AM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline 		Well I have to agree with caitlyn here. Reading people's moral point of view about what married people should and shouldn't do with their lives isn't something I come to collarme for. But it happens, and I'm sure I understand why it happens. It would be nice if it didn't happen... but then one thing about morals is that people don't seem to be able to keep them to themselves

~ Elektra

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/9/2005 4:57:52 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		If you post it............................they will come.

*chucklez*

Happy Friday y'all!!

~smilezz~

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

(in reply to ElektraUkM)
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RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/9/2005 6:16:40 AM   
FTopinMichigan


Posts: 571
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn


Maybe I'm being too idealistic, but I just feel that what other people do with their marriage, or how they deal or don't deal with their their problems, or what they do with their bodies ... those things are just not my business.



I'm curious to know if it's 'none of your business,' as you say...why you would continue to read and post? There must be something that you get, from remaining in this forum.





quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn



Learning what??????? ... listening to comments made about complete strangers?????




I've learned there are some posters that I enjoy, and they have something to say that I enjoy reading. I enjoy hearing the differing perspectives, and working to understanding views that are contrary to my own. There are also other posters, that I completely ignore, and threads I have no interest in reading.

I think it's quite easy for some people to get caught up in reading every post here, and internalizing what they read.

I don't live here. I just visit!

K



(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/9/2005 6:36:46 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Maybe I'm being too idealistic, but I just feel that what other people do with their marriage, or how they deal or don't deal with their their problems, or what they do with their bodies ... those things are just not my business. Even more so, when I don't even personally know the people in question.


Sooo, you are just here to skim jokes from the humor section?

with all due respect, Caitlyn, this is an international message board, an online forum--people discuss all manner of things here, from politics to religion, relationship issues, techniques with toys, body modification, pets, YES, even the constitution of their moral fiber.

this slave understands your frustration.......there are topics that are annoying to this slave as well, especially the ironic ones. This slave found it incredibly ironic that someone who is sneaking around their relationship(a risky behavior, practically speaking) would complain about a lack of safety. One of the things one hears OVER and OVER on these boards and in R/L at presentations, demos and general chit-chat at local and distant dungeons is the importance of HONEST COMMUNICATION WITH YOUR PARTNER. It has been this slave's experience that it is ESSENTIAL. Without it, all bets are off with regard to having a safe, fulfilling relationship, especially when one engages in EDGE-PLAY. this slave's advice would be to be honest and open with your partner, regardless if it is husband, wife, Dom, sub, or any combination.

Is it this slave's business what anyone does or says here? Certainly not.
Participation on these boards, however, certainly doesn't infer it.

Master is most pleased with the comments you made regarding the Neighbor's TV thread. He commented to His slave this morning, "If you are going to be flamed, better to be flamed for your integrity than for the lack of it."


(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/9/2005 7:13:06 AM   
LadyJC


Posts: 111
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline 		It's good certain topics keep coming up though. There's always the newbies that need to learn. I've learned a lot since I started taking part in the posts. One topic sticks in my mind the Passive agressive disorder. Found it rather interesting, and the difference between topping from the bottom and just putting in suggestions. I find these things are important for people to understand and read about.
In fact my mom and I were talking about the "tv thread" and was asking me who was the married guy who was trying to get me to play, cause she's having someone do the same with her turned out it wasn't the same guy. So it makes you realize how many of those people are out there.
(Yes my mom's in the lifestyle)
I'm not really looking for the one on here, but enjoy talking to new people and learning about different things. If it so happens I meet the one on here then great if not, oh well move on.
People should have the freedom to post any questions they need answered. I mean after all in Canada and the United States we have that whole freedom of speech thing.
LadyJC

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/9/2005 7:27:21 AM   
CitizenCane


Posts: 349
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		It seems to me that most people that start threads on relationship issues are looking for validation, not insight. This really isn't very different from r/t 'girl talk' or guys bitching about their wives/girlfriends over a beer. There really isn't all that much that a bunch of strangers can tell a person about their relationship- not much useful, anyway. Still, it's fun taking a shot at it once in awhile.

Cane

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/9/2005 7:56:11 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Sooo, you are just here to skim jokes from the humor section?

Master is most pleased with the comments you made regarding the Neighbor's TV thread. He commented to His slave this morning, "If you are going to be flamed, better to be flamed for your integrity than for the lack of it."


No, I'm not here just to skim the humor section. I'm not sure I have ever read the humor section, ha-ha! I enjoy all the on-topic posts, and just to be clear, Merc makes some of the best and most informational posts on this board!

I also don't feel like I flamed him. Merc has the right to post whatever he wants, and I have the right to post my opinion ... that having integrity is great, and having your life together is even better, but when you insinuate your values on complete strangers, that might be something best done in the privacy of your own home, and not on a message board.

I don't expect everyone to agree, and that's great! We are not all alike, we have different thoughts, different values, and different standards ... and THAT is exactly the point I'm trying to make.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/9/2005 8:57:24 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		The issue, as I see it, is not one of moral judgment or values. It is strictly one of informed consent (whether we are talking about the informed consent of a television owner, or a significant other, the same principle applies).

John

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/9/2005 10:34:40 AM   
ElektraUkM


Posts: 309
Joined: 2/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Maybe I'm being too idealistic, but I just feel that what other people do with their marriage, or how they deal or don't deal with their their problems, or what they do with their bodies ... those things are just not my business. Even more so, when I don't even personally know the people in question.


Sooo, you are just here to skim jokes from the humor section?

with all due respect, Caitlyn, this is an international message board, an online forum--people discuss all manner of things here, from politics to religion, relationship issues, techniques with toys, body modification, pets, YES, even the constitution of their moral fiber.

this slave understands your frustration.......there are topics that are annoying to this slave as well, especially the ironic ones. This slave found it incredibly ironic that someone who is sneaking around their relationship(a risky behavior, practically speaking) would complain about a lack of safety.


beth: Could you explain your view of the 'irony' of this case?

Are you suggesting that people who are not doing what you consider to be morally-OK are "getting what's coming to them" if they find themselves in unsafe positions, or (to put it another way) 'fair game' for whatever comes their way?

~ Elektra



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/9/2005 11:15:09 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Are you suggesting that people who are not doing what you consider to be morally-OK are "getting what's coming to them" if they find themselves in unsafe positions, or (to put it another way) 'fair game' for whatever comes their way?


~ Elektra,

You are getting a collective response, from Merc & beth.

The "irony" is in regards to safety. Unless it is the desired result, being with someone else not your spouse, without your spouse's knowledge and consent can never be "safe". If there are potential consequences to you family life, your children's lives, or the love of your spouse if the infidelity was discovered; under what conditions can that meeting be made "safe"? Safe for the spouse and children. We see only one answer to that question. It can be kept "safe" only if the spouse doesn't ever learn of it. "Ever" is a long time. It's a long life.

No one should ever be "fair game". Disclosure and honesty will result in the spouse, children, and friends not becoming "fair game" to be used. Assuming the love of the spouse is true and ongoing, how could a person rationalize the guilt? If eventual disclosure or discovery is assumed, do it now. Then, with clear conscience, experiment, find fulfillment, whatever. We'd suggest that the experience will be much more enjoyable.

What desire is so bad that it can't or shouldn't be communicated with your spouse or significant other? If you can't trust your spouse to discuss your desire rationally what kind of relationship are you living under? If there is reciprocal love between you what negative consequence of honesty and trust could result. This doesn't assume that the spouse needs to or is even capable of fulfilling that desire.

Leave consideration of the BDSM lifestyle aside for this time being. If beth is attracted to a female Domme, or wanted to be intimate with a woman; I couldn't provide the experience or sensation she desires. There is no feeling of inadequacy if she makes that request. Where I would be hurt would be if I found out AFTER the fact. And the reason I would be hurt, wouldn't be because of the act, it would be because she didn't TRUST me. Trust in our love, trust that I would understand. The experience that beth had couldn't ever be "safe" for me.

Ironic isn't it?

(in reply to ElektraUkM)
Profile   Post #: 20
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