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RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/9/2005 7:17:11 PM   
FLButtSlut


Posts: 344
Joined: 3/17/2005
Status: offline 		It isn't that the posts have gone off topic, but more a matter of the post actually being multi-faceted.

One can hope to learn from these boards, but where exactly does it say that is the purpose?

There are different "subject" areas on the forum, but none of them say "Come HERE to learn about the lifestyle", rather they invite people to ask questions in the areas they feel it applies.

I began reading this post and then had to go and find the other post that was being discussed in an attempt to understand what is going on. I sat in utter amazement at both.

Many people come to bdsm because of the concept that it is more "open" to things than the "vanilla" world. Yes, it is not uncommon for some Masters or Doms to share or loan their slaves/subs out to others. It is also not uncommon for Masters/slaves and Doms/subs to have meaningful, MONOGAMOUS relationships. Apparently, there are those who have confused these consensual activities to mean that the people involved are apparently void of morals or values. Sorry to disappoint everyone, but I guess that is what you ARE learning on these boards. BDSM does not equal valueless, immoral activity. Kinky, perverse, swaying a bit off the "norm", sure, but there are still morals and values that exist. I notice no one ever has a nice thing to say about the master or dom who intentionally tries to "hook up" with another master/dom's property. Why is it that some of you consider THAT to be taboo, but not someone stepping out on a vanilla partner? How is only one unacceptable over the other?

caitlyn,

The only way that you have discovered that everyone is different is because you are here reading to see it is so. If that is the point you are trying so desperately to make, then you need to realize that when asking for the views of others, unless you ask only of those who think like you do, you are going to get a lot of differing opinions. While I am certainly not trying to bash you, I hope that you keep a diary/journal. I suggest that every 5-10 years you go back and look at what you wrote 5-10 years ago. You certainly have some very strong opinions now about how people should think, but I wonder if you will look at their views differently 5 or 10 years from now. Also, if you had a friend who was going out with a married man, would you encourage her? Or would you try to point out to her that it was not something that was likely going to satisfy her in the long run?

Aileen,

You left out important information that would assist the people in giving you advice. You admit not only that you omitted it for fear of being "bashed" but because you know what you are doing is wrong. You and the people who responded to you both became offended. You because you felt like you were being "judged" and them because they posted with good intentions but you essentially lied to them. No one likes feeling like or being deceived, just like no one likes feeling like or being judged. In a community where trust is paramount for most in being able to participate in activities (can anyone imagine engaging in knife play with someone they didn't trust?), being dishonest is equal to being untrustworthy. Just the way it is.

I don't know what your situation is or why you feel that you need to conceal things from your spouse. You are not very young (as in a late teens early twenties) with less life experiences, not lifestyle mind you, but life. I think something you sorely missed in many of the posts was the underlying desire of many of the people to try to help you sort things out. I can only imagine how many horrible emails you received, and you should not have been subjected to that.

Now...I know you didn't ask for it, but I am going to offer some advice and help to you anyway. I have worked in Family Law for the past eight years, and as it happens almost all of that work was done in New Jersey where you live. I have seen almost every reason one could think of for the dissolution of marriage/family during that time, including divorces that have occured due to the wife "discovering" she was a lesbian after 10 years of marriage and children, to a couple who divorced because the husband was undergoing surgery to become a woman. Think it is pretty safe to assume that neither of those are your circumstances. People seek physical satisfaction outside their marriage without the knowledge of their spouse for many reasons, but some reasons tend to be more predominant than others. While the lack of receiving physical intimacy (or the type of physical contact they desire) is very common, more often husbands and wives stray because they are afraid of what they will lose in a divorce. In cases where bdsm comes into play, certainly your "new found" desires probably have you worried that your kinky side would be used against you.

The point is, that all too often, a person lets those desires, whatever they are, become needs that must be met immediately. This, in itself is dangerous behavior. It is very rare when someone is able to not get caught cheating on their spouse, and then things get REALLY difficult, making whatever difficulties exist right now look almost non existant.

You are beginning a journey where you are discovering many new things about yourself, and that is absolutely wonderful. But, if you are not extremely careful, you could find yourself on the receiving end of a very nasty divorce. I am sure you think that no one you know ever thinks of participating in this lifestyle, but can you be that sure? You have your picture posted on your profile. What would you do if someone from your community or work happened to be a member here, and saw your picture? If you pursue meeting and playing with someone, what will you do if you come home with some unexplained bruises or other marks on your body? These are very real concerns that you should have.

You do have a lot of options in your situation that can minimize any risk you may take. I could put you in contact with some really great attorneys in New Jersey who would be qualified to help you.

Do I believe that cheating is wrong? Yes, I do. I also know that in most cases, the person doing it doesn't think they have a lot of other choices available to them. I hope you realize that you DO have a lot of choices and that the most of the people here would be happy to help you, advise you based on their experiences and even listen to you rant and rave about what an ass your husband is. I for one would never just dismiss helping you because you are doing something that I don't personally believe in, and I don't think a lot of others would either if you gave them half a chance.

(in reply to Phoenixandnika)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/10/2005 12:59:49 AM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
quote:

The same can be said of some of the abuse posts. Someone like pinkpleasures posts some potentually useful information on abuse, and is literally trashed relentlessly on these boards. Then we get the ten page posts about all the people that scream abuse and are really not abused and how many people actually abuse, abuse.

caitlyn


Yes, the "prevent abuse" thread went sideways. i think some people are unrealistic about the abusers who toll here looking for a woman (or man) to abuse...but i'm sick and tired of taking s**t for saying so. i agree that many posts are self-congratulatory or offensive, but the boards are a free forum.

i think it would be best if you posted a thread, asking for advice about something specific -- i think people here genuinely want to help. They may be cranky at times, but there is an overall sense of goodwill i detect.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 9/10/2005 1:01:15 AM >

_____________________________



(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/10/2005 1:04:37 AM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
quote:

This whole topic reminds me of the "Moral Majority" ... I just had no idea that BDSM had such a thing.

caitlyn


i am astonished at the nit-pickiness of some people on the boards...i agree with you, caitlyn.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 9/10/2005 1:28:30 AM >

_____________________________



(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/11/2005 8:47:50 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Going forward should we all have in mind these definitions?

"THEM" - Anyone who does not agree with what I post, criticizes my actions, criticizes my decisions, disagrees with my version of the lifestyle, or interjects any aspect of the question I pose which is NOT supportive of the position, decision, or situation I am posting.

"US" - Anyone who provides unconditional support and encouragement for how I live regardless if they have experience or personal knowledge that the actions have consequences that I many have not considered or care about, for myself, my family, my significant other, or friends.

In the future, to save time, we should all start the post by identifying as an "US" or "THEM". (Perhaps we should use the Roman "thumb's up" or "thumb's down" emoticon?) In this manner the OP will be able to quickly identify anyone not providing unconditional support. By avoiding the "thumb's down", no one will be upset after reading any contrary information. Posting a contrary position with a "thumb's up" with the intention of tricking the OP should be put on probation by the Mods. Future flagrant violations should be grounds for suspension or termination of CM membership rights.

This will also reduce the space requirements for the thread. It will not require any posting to flame, label, or name call. That process can be made easier, more efficient, and less redundant by just listing all the names and most effective flames in one place under "THEM", and all the wonderful things we say to people we agree with under "US". Then instead of trying to think of some clever retort or name calling, say like "moral majority", you could just say; "you're a THEM!".

After all, no contrary position is meant to be helpful. Everyone wants to impose their belief structure into everyone else's life. Any potential negative inference and written inflection should be perceived as a personal insult and attack. No other perspective can be helpful because everyone's situation is individual and unique.

Just think, when you're really need to feel good about yourself or the way you live, you could just go to the "US" section and wallow in all those warm and fuzzy positive thoughts. Of course we can't control reality, but at least we'll know how to make sure we only get and read good things about ourselves when we log in to CM!

(Whoops - spelling edit!)

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 9/11/2005 9:10:59 AM >

(in reply to pinkpleasures)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/11/2005 9:38:31 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		The original post in this thread has nothing to do with support for anyone's position.

Them: People that feel the need to make commentary on any post to serve their own value system, even if that thought is not really on topic, and made about people they do not know, or situations they probably know nothing about.

Us: People that make an attempt to confine their responses to the topic of the original post, and have an understanding that what they do with their life is their business, and what other people do with theirs ... is not.


I don't think any of the original posts made concerning the three topics listed in my title for this thread, were looking for support for their postions. Correct me if I am wrong, but the questions asked seemed to be:

Aileen: How can you have a safe meeting when you are not able to tell anyone you are meeting. (She did later post information about her relationship, but ONLY after people pressed her on why she didn't have people she could tell).

Abuse (me): Do people think that some are attracted to this lifestyle to fill the void left by past abuse.

Worthlessness: Do people feel that some submissives can work their way out of feelings of worthlessness, by interaction with a dominant.


In Aileen's case, she wasn't looking for support at all ... just some simple suggestions about a specific question.

In my instance, I wasn't looking for commentary on abuse at all ... I never even mentioned my own situation in my post. All I wanted was a simple answer ... but instead, a certain element here saw fit to turn that whole thread into a rant over how many people fake abuse to get attention. Imagine how that felt to me, who INTENTIONALLY left my post very vague, in an attempt to keep it from turning into another whining about abuse thread. The ONLY people that turned it into a whining about abuse thread, were the people whining about people whining about abuse.

Worthlessness: Like it or not, there are people that feel that way. The responses by some, insisting that they have feelings of great worth, and are just trying to show something positive ... felt a little like marathon runners discussing how wonderful it is to have healthy legs, in a room full of people in wheel chairs.


I'm sorry if this bothers you Merc, and you feel flamed by me. Believe me, I fully respect your right to post whatever you want here. It sure would be nice though, if other people could post what they wanted, without having moral judgements made my complete strangers. Lets add one more group to your "Then and Us."

Me: A person that will no longer ask any questions here, because she is sick of having some people mind fuck the whole post, to serve their own values and those of their cohorts.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/11/2005 5:03:42 PM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline 		Is it possible that we might just enjoy reading other people's opinions and learning how they feel? I also like to see who's opinion agrees with mine. It's not important to me and it won't change mine a bit but it's fun to see. You will find though that a lot of people have very specific ideas about how other people should run their lives and their marriage. Mostly opinions are worth just what you pay for them.............

_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/12/2005 9:34:29 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

I'm sorry if this bothers you Merc, and you feel flamed by me. Believe me, I fully respect your right to post whatever you want here. It sure would be nice though, if other people could post what they wanted, without having moral judgements made my complete strangers. Lets add one more group to your "Then and Us."


caitlyn,
Regardless how much you or I see things in black and white, to the rest of the world it's gray. I don't understand why that poses a problem. The Us/Them reference was an effort to point out how ridiculous it's become. Where in any post did I or beth indicate that the only way to behave or believe was our way, or one way? I can't imagine anyone saying something to beth and I that would change the way we live. I especially can't think of anything written on this forum or any on-line media that I would take as uncompromising fact. If someone posted that the definition of "abuse" was if you spanked a slave 150 times with your hand, 100 times with a paddle, 50 times with a flogger, or 25 times with a cane; would you start counting? Would you even take it seriously? Would you change your methods? Would you think you were wrong or abusive if you didn't follow those "rules"?

If I read something contradictory to what I post, I say; "so what?" I have no intention of amending my morality or my lifestyle. However, if someone says something of another perspective or raises a point I didn't think about before, I'm not offended, I'm not pissed. I give that point or perspective more consideration to any that I agree. I'll research, I'll try to find source information that confirms/contradicts the position. Ultimately I'm appreciative because I've had the opportunity to learn more. In my mind - that's a GOOD thing.

I've said, and it's in our profile for that matter, I believe you can learn more from opposing opinions than confirming ones. I forget the originator of this quote, but it rings true; "When the facts change it’s good to change your opinion." The same is true if there was a fact that you didn't consider when forming your opinion. Any post we make is providing our opinion based upon our perspective, or experience. It's OUR way of life and isn't there for, and doesn't need validation. If someone does or doesn't do something resulting from reading our posts, whether it's cheating on their spouse or not posting another question to this forum; it's a result of them giving our opinion that power not us assuming it.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/12/2005 2:08:59 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Was reading your comments Merc and it caused me to recall something relevant. There's a fairly simple root cause to many of the "my way is the only way" type arguments that arrise. Its rooted in the personal perspective... the word "I". The natural way to respond to any question is to answer... "I would..." or "I think..." or "I believe..." or "I feel...", and so on. These are all personal perspectives, the mode we all think in normally. What sometimes happens is this. Someone asks a question, another person replies in the form of that personal perspective and then someone else challenges that perspective. When our personal beliefs, feelings, thoughts, etc are challenged we naturally attempt to defend them and if we feel it necessary, justify them. That's where the "my way is the one true way" comes in... its a personal perspective taken to the extreme in an effort to justify or defend it.

I suspect we are all guilty of this at one time or another, I know I have been, its easy to fall into. There are two things any of us can do to help avoid it. First, if you disagree with someone else's perspective, try not to do so in the form of an attack... that is, try not to put the other person on the defensive. Second, we can all learn not to be so defensive. If someone disagrees with our own perspective, even attacks it, don't fall into the trap of continually trying to justify it regardless of how much it escalates. Learn to diffuse things by either avoiding responding to provocative and/or hostile comments, or limit your response to something that doesn't escalate it. Allow other people their opinions, even if they disagree, even if you believe they are wrong. As you said Merc, just because someone disagrees with you by itself is not going to cause you to change. That simple attitude is an effective defense against a lot of inflamatory remarks. Its not until someone present you with new facts, new information to consider that the potential to change your belief comes about. That's a pretty healhty attitude.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/12/2005 8:19:34 PM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
quote:

After all, no contrary position is meant to be helpful. Everyone wants to impose their belief structure into everyone else's life. Any potential negative inference and written inflection should be perceived as a personal insult and attack. No other perspective can be helpful because everyone's situation is individual and unique.

Mercnbeth


i have no desire to impose any beliefs, apart from a long-standing wish that bigots of any stripe would just go away. i guess i have no special feelings about using Mercnbeth as a line of demarcation, but i'm not sure if i am "us" or "them". Maybe they can tell me.

pinkpleasures

< Message edited by pinkpleasures -- 9/12/2005 8:20:08 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/12/2005 11:09:23 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Was reading your comments Merc and it caused me to recall something relevant. There's a fairly simple root cause to many of the "my way is the only way" type arguments that arrise. Its rooted in the personal perspective... the word "I". The natural way to respond to any question is to answer... "I would..." or "I think..." or "I believe..." or "I feel...", and so on. These are all personal perspectives, the mode we all think in normally. What sometimes happens is this. Someone asks a question, another person replies in the form of that personal perspective and then someone else challenges that perspective. When our personal beliefs, feelings, thoughts, etc are challenged we naturally attempt to defend them and if we feel it necessary, justify them. That's where the "my way is the one true way" comes in... its a personal perspective taken to the extreme in an effort to justify or defend it.

I suspect we are all guilty of this at one time or another, I know I have been, its easy to fall into. There are two things any of us can do to help avoid it. First, if you disagree with someone else's perspective, try not to do so in the form of an attack... that is, try not to put the other person on the defensive. Second, we can all learn not to be so defensive. If someone disagrees with our own perspective, even attacks it, don't fall into the trap of continually trying to justify it regardless of how much it escalates. Learn to diffuse things by either avoiding responding to provocative and/or hostile comments, or limit your response to something that doesn't escalate it. Allow other people their opinions, even if they disagree, even if you believe they are wrong. As you said Merc, just because someone disagrees with you by itself is not going to cause you to change. That simple attitude is an effective defense against a lot of inflamatory remarks. Its not until someone present you with new facts, new information to consider that the potential to change your belief comes about. That's a pretty healhty attitude.


Would you agree, if we could sit lets say 50 people dotted about the edge of a large circle, looking at a large multi faceted, multi coloured geometric object, and after them looking at it ask each one to write a description of what they saw, and then asked them to base a part of their lives on that description that we would:

1. Find that each person saw something different from the next.

2. Know that what they saw was true (according to their viewing point and their understanding of what they saw).

3. Believe that the change in their lives based on what they described seeing was “right and true”.

Now is it not possible and indeed probable that each person may well believe that everyone else was wrong and that they were right? (This is simply because they did not view the object from the same viewpoint that others did). Ergo, is this not similar to the root of differing opinions here especially if we substitute, upbringing, religious beliefs, morality, ethics and experience for that multifaceted, multicoloured object?

~ Just the views of a silly aged Grizzly who knows for a fact that Bears don't always shit in the woods and Aussie Dunny Paper is better for wiping arses than rabbits ~


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/13/2005 4:39:33 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		Hehe... yes I could agree, I've done it. Many years ago I took an art class in college. One day the teacher took the class outside to a fountain in a courtyard in the middle of the campus. She had us all sit around the fountain, pull out our sketch pads and draw what we saw. We all drew something slightly different. The background differed, the people in the drawings differed (we all saw different classmates sitting on the other side of the fountain), and yet we all drew a fountain... the same fountain, but seen from different perspectives.

That's what I was getting at... we all tend to see mainly from our own perspective, and that is natural... but it takes effort and awareness to see something from someone elses perspective. We all see the same fountain, and there is only one fountain, but we all see it slightly differently. We focus on what is important to us individually, what appeals most, what our experiences in life have taught us is most important.

Like anyone, I see the world mainly through my own eyes... they are after all the only eyes I have. When I post here, I'm sharing my point of view, my thoughts, because I want to add to the discussion. For me at least, it isn't about putting anyone else down or attacking anyone, not usually anyway. I think sometimes my own gregarious, verbose, brainy way of saying and doing things overwhelms others, but its not intended. Neither are my posts about showing off or seeking praise, I'm not after those things I just enjoy sharing and as much as I have shared there's been a lot I've held back. I've enjoyed being part of these forums, enjoyed the differing opinions and points of view because it lets me borrow the eyes of others... to see that fountain from a perspective other than my own... to see things I hadn't seen before. I've learned something from probably just about everyone here who is active in these forums, so for that, I'll say thank you to all of you. You've each taught me something, if you've learned anything from my posts and thoughts and ramblings, well... I'd call that a fair exchange.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/17/2005 9:09:47 PM   
EvilGeoff


Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen68

..... Maybe now this post will start discussing cures for lack of sleep.



Okay... Time for an eye exam or bed. Not sure which. I coulda sworn that said:

"lack of sheep"

*LOL*

YIK,
- Geoff

(in reply to Aileen68)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/17/2005 11:06:26 PM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

In the future, to save time, we should all start the post by identifying as an "US" or "THEM". (Perhaps we should use the Roman "thumb's up" or "thumb's down" emoticon?) In this manner the OP will be able to quickly identify anyone not providing unconditional support. By avoiding the "thumb's down", no one will be upset after reading any contrary information. Posting a contrary position with a "thumb's up" with the intention of tricking the OP should be put on probation by the Mods. Future flagrant violations should be grounds for suspension or termination of CM membership rights.



Would this kind of Thumbs Up do it? Great idea. Just think of how much flaming we'd eliminate if people only read opinions that agreed with their own. Of course we need to remember that opinions are like A** Holes....everybody has one.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/18/2005 5:05:24 AM   
LadyofLight


Posts: 60
Status: offline 		but I want to be an US and play devil's advocate at the same time,lol.

I need more java.

_____________________________

Life is all about ass:
you're either covering it,
laughing it off,
kicking it,
kissing it,
busting it,
trying to get a piece of it,
or behaving like one.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/18/2005 1:07:29 PM   
EvilGeoff


Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Abuse (me): Do people think that some are attracted to this lifestyle to fill the void left by past abuse.




Good afternoon caitlyn,

Getting back to the question....

Yes, absolutely there are people who "are attracted to this lifestyle to fill the void left by past abuse." Being human beings, we _are_ creatures of habit. Our minds and bodies and hearts get programmed in certain ways as our lives unfold. We do the same things over and over each day, and they become ingrained to our way of thinking, feeling, and doing.

Someone in an abusive relationship gets programmed the same way. It becomes ingrained, a habit.

And like all habits, this is damnably difficult to break out of. Trying to change the habit is very difficult. We fall back into the same patterns of behavior time and again. It takes a lot of work, alot of introspection, a lot of outside help, to break these patterns.

For some people in this lifestyle (by no means all or most) BDSM serves a purpose analogous to nicorette for smokers or methadone for heroin addicts. It provides a positive, or at least not nearly so harmful, alternative to the abusive relationships they seem to fall into. By re-directing their lives along a slightly different path, they can begin to reprogram old, negative habits, towards positive new ones, without going through the incredibly difficult and frequently painful task of going "cold turkey".

This is not to say that there are no abusive BDSM relationships. I would be a pollyana to believe so. We all know, or know of, abusers in this lifestyle (and why we permit them to remain among us is a topic for another thread and time.... ). But BDSM _is_ an alternative for those people, and I think a decent one, to try to find some of the control and physical sensation that may be desired, while also finding spiritual and emotional healing.

*tossing another $.02 in the kitty*

Yours In Kink,
- Geoff

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/18/2005 1:23:30 PM   
EvilGeoff


Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Aileen: How can you have a safe meeting when you are not able to tell anyone you are meeting. (She did later post information about her relationship, but ONLY after people pressed her on why she didn't have people she could tell).




To address Aileen's issue:

There are realtime BDSM groups located all over the US, Canada, and around the world. There is probably one reasonably close at hand, and if not, I bet they have a e-mail list that has at least a few people local to you on it. Make contact, meet people, get involved. Make friends. Friends will watch your back, provide safecalls, even come pick you up or bail you out if you miss a safe call.

To find local groups try SceneUSA, the great-granddaddy of BDSM group listings:

http://www.darkheart.com/sceneusa.html

If you can't meet any folks local to you, try the Safecall Yahoo group:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/safecall

Safecall has members all across the US (and some outside the US) that are willing and able to provide safecalls and assistance to people travelling to their areas for meetings, that don't have a network of friends or family that can help.

Hope that helps!

Yours In Kink,
- Geoff

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/18/2005 1:37:36 PM   
EvilGeoff


Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Worthlessness: Do people feel that some submissives can work their way out of feelings of worthlessness, by interaction with a dominant.




I think it is entirely possible and in fact, highly probable if the submissive has a realtionship with a particularly nurturing kind of dominant. See my previous post about abuse and the habits we form....

Self-esteem, while it cannot be given to anyone, can be encouraged, re-enforced, and validated by others, including dominants. As praise and encouragement are given, as new ways of doing things and thinking and feeling are learned, we can rebuild our feelings of self-worth. Again it is a slow process, often accompanied by a 2 steps forward, 1 back kind of growth. But years of habit often take years of un-doing.

And lest people think submissives are the only ones with self esteem/self worth issues, they are not. Dominants can have the same issues as well, often channelled in other directions - like becoming work-a-holics or over-achievers. Someone who is always striving to do better because in their own eyes nothing they do is "good enough"... oh yeah, look for serious self worth issues.

Like almost any negative issue in our lives, feeling worthless can be conquered. Identifying the problem, acknowledging and accepting it, then working on the issue with the help of our friends, family and partners goes a long long way. Sometimes professional help is neccessary too.

Good luck in your efforts!

YIK,
- Geoff

Isn't it amazing what you can do after a good night's SLEEP (not sheep)!
*lol*

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/18/2005 2:03:20 PM   
EvilGeoff


Posts: 523
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		PS:

Hope you found the above posts were informational in nature and non-judgemental. The questions as phrased in the post I replied to didn't ask for a "judgement" call so I didn't make one.

But please keep in mind that the way a question is phrased, particularly if "What do you think about....?" or "How do you feel about....?" is used, the question is inviting people to make value and judgement calls. Expect strong opinions, often contrary to your own.

Please allow others their thoughts and feelings, and their expression thereof. You would want to be extended the same courtesy. Strive to not take disagreement as a personal condemnation or judgement. Try to read each post (unless the author makes it impossible to do so) as more of a "this is how I do things (or feel), and I hope you can find something useful in this..." than "this is how you should do things (or feel)..."

Also keep in mind that while we are reading the posts of others, we have a natural tendency to project our own feelings, motivations, and world view onto the author of the message. In otherwords, if I am sarcastic, I will tend to read the messages of others as being sarcastic. If I am angry, or bitter, or defensive... I will read those messages as being written by someone angry, bitter, or defensive. It is human nature to assume that everyone else does and says what they say for the same reasons I (in the first person sense, not the I-EvilGeoff sense) would do or say those things.

For example, I might write "I am sooooooo happy for you!" and be truly genuine in my joy for you. Bouncing up and down in my seat excited for your good fortune. But if you are reading it through a sarcastic filter you are "hearing it" in your mind's ear dripping in sarcasm, it has a completely different tone. Read that and "hear it" with an excited lilt and bounce in the voice kinda like Richard Simmons saying it. Then read it and "hear it" in an Alan Rickman, abso-freaking-lutely dripping in sarcasm tone of voice.

Can't you just "feel" the difference in how that comes across?

Try to remember that what you are "hearing" or "feeling" from the author may be 180 degrees from what they are actually intending. Are you hearing Alan Rickman or Richard Simmons? *grin*

Yours In Promoting Better Communication In Kink,
- Geoff



(in reply to EvilGeoff)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/18/2005 2:14:58 PM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
quote:

Me: A person that will no longer ask any questions here, because she is sick of having some people mind fuck the whole post, to serve their own values and those of their cohorts.

caitlyn


Please do not go silent; your voice enriches the boards. Conformity is not the object here; not even after a new thread is begun.

pinkpleasures

_____________________________



(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Rant: Abuse, Cheating, Worthlessness - 9/24/2005 1:15:16 AM   
pinkpleasures


Posts: 1114
Status: offline
quote:

Of course we need to remember that opinions are like A** Holes....everybody has one.

Sunshine119


This metaphor never made any sense to me; people have one a**hole but many, many opinions...so the comparision always struck me as dumb. Am i missing s'thing?

pinkpleasures

_____________________________



(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 60
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