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ORIGINAL: kitttty

What Israel does to palestine isn't any harsher than what hamas does to fatah or what saudis do to ismalis or what one afghan tribe does to another.

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That's like saying apartheid South Africa was justified because Britain fought Argentina or because the Serbs fought the Bosnians. A crime is a crime is a crime; it cannot be justified by another act in another place. If I kill my neighbour, it does not excuse you killing yours.

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Contrary to your stated position, not all Islamic countries can be termed fundamentalist.

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ORIGINAL: kitttty

I was the first person to say that Muslims know there will be no hand chopping n the UK. What I said was that they agree with the principles behind hand chopping. And in any case, what they really want is shariah as applied to domestic and family affairs, where shariah law is particularly incompatible with western law.

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No disrespect meant but who and where ? I don`t know who you may or may not know, i can only base my opinions on what i read and see here in the UK Media, and by talking to the few Muslims i know.

This practice is guarenteed to result in ignorance. After WWII, ten years later you had SS officers being quiet neighbors watering their lawns. Nice guys then.

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You claim to know what Muslims world wide are planning to do, yet its obvious you cant live in every Country you mention.

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The fate of Theo van Gogh, the Dutch film-maker who was murdered by a Muslim extremist in 2004 after he made a film portraying violence against women in Islamic societies, is the most chilling example of what can happen to an artist who is perceived to have offended Islam. Perry said that he had also been scared by the reaction across the Islamic world to Danish cartoons deemed anti-Muslim in 2006 and by the protests against Salman Rushdie’s knighthood this year

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ORIGINAL: kitttty

Not all muslims have some global agenda. But the religious leaders with any kind of ambition do. Many of the political leaders and tribal warlords share the same ambition.

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Now it may - just may, come to that one day, if the doom mongers are correct. But I'll be damned if I am prepared right now to give up on my view that the doom mongers are wrong about the majority of Muslims and that much of what drives the minority is provoked by us (the wider us), and therefore resolvable by us. The alternative is to set out now, down a road which will end in suffering the likes of which we reviled the nazis for - such a thought process can end no other way.

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that much of what drives the minority is provoked by us

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Seeks i reject the fact that respect for the laws of the land makes people wishy washy. There is a distinct law that the security services are unable to bug MPs, this was broken.

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This still misses the point, there isnt a ground swell of support for either fundamentalism or Sharia law here in the UK. You have still not said if you live in the UK, and if you dont, how do you know what the Muslim community here is thinking ? 

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Fundementalist Islam is the dominant theological interpretation of Islam and the organized movement for what Islam is. There is no movement for whatever Islam happened to become in various cultures. There is certainly no movement for lacksadaisical practitioners of a religion.

It is not the western media's fault for focusing on fundementalist Islam. It is the inevitable result of the fact that Islamic extremism is an organized movement that seeks to takeover the muslim community and bring attention to itself. It is also the result of there being very little ideological revolt against fundementalism from other practicing muslims.

Hardly. It's driven by the last thousand years of Islamic tradition and by the internal desire for certain groups to maintain power. Saudi Arabia isn't a wahabbist dictatorship because the west made them that way. They are because Wahabbism is their own movement and after they took over, the west solidified their power by suporting them.

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Until he was jailed last year on charges of soliciting murder and inciting racial hatred, a man known to the police of several countries as Abu Hamza al-Masri was the imam of the Finsbury Park Mosque.

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In fact, the British jihadist is becoming quite a feature on the international scene. In 1998, six British citizens of Pakistani and North African descent along with two other British residents were arrested by the government of Yemen and convicted of planning to kidnap a group of tourists and attack British targets in the port of Aden (scene of the near-sinking of the U.S.S. Cole two years later). One of the youths was the son of the tireless Abu Hamza, and another was his stepson.

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We just have to hope that the ability to communicate doesn't get lost in all the irrational feelings and scaremongering. Thoughtful and thought-provoking, annabelle, thanks.

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greetings kitttty,

i think the lack of sunni support for al-qaeda is an excellent example of what mainstream muslims think of fundamentalism. fundamentalism is not the dominant interpretation of islam. wahabbism denies both sufis and shi'a - so in reality we're talking about a small minority of sunnis who fall into the beliefs of wahabbism, which is the dominant fundamentalist ideology. considering that turkey suppresses islam, it doesn't surprise me that there are more atheists there.

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but wahabbism would not exist if it weren't for colonialism.

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the funny thing to me is how many people think islam is irreconcilable with egalitarianism - considering islam was an egalitarian social movement well before it was a monotheistic religious movement. all of the new movements of islam seek to return to that social ideal, it's just that too many of them have their own warped idea of what that is, and often it's based on bizarre interpretations and constructions of things that came hundreds of years after the revelation rather than the qur'an itself.

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ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

This is Darcy (climbing onto his soapbox, so be warned.....)

The Archbishop of Cantebury Rowan Williams has said in an interview with BBC Radio 4's World At One programme that the adoption of Islamic Sharia law is unavoidable in the UK.

He goes on to say that the UK has to face up to the fact that some of its citizens do not relate to the British legal system.

Full story here.... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7232661.stm

Your friendly neighbourhood Devil's Advocate,
Darcy

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ORIGINAL: kitttty

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This still misses the point, there isnt a ground swell of support for either fundamentalism or Sharia law here in the UK. You have still not said if you live in the UK, and if you dont, how do you know what the Muslim community here is thinking ? 

Yes there is such support within kinds of Muslim communities. You conveniently disregarded surveys by making claims that do not hold against them. There is no evidence that those surveys are innacurate or outdated. Such surveys have been repeated many times in many areas and give the same results. A majority of practicing Sunni Muslims support Shariah law because that is what the Mosque tells them to believe. Support is greater or lesser depending on where people are originally from. Sufi Turkish Muslims for ex, are generally not big supporters of Islamic law.