RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ...

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FirmhandKY -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 3:58:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Well, I guess that settles that. Next time you want to attack people you disagree with you might want to be prepared to defend your claim. Lordie ... what "claim"? FYI, I'm about to drive back to Kentucky from Atlanta, so don't take my absence until tomorrow as me "deserting the field". Firm PS. You still need to take that pill.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 4:01:25 PM)
Here, maybe this will clarify things I'm interesting in seeing discussed in this thread: 1. Is liberal democracy responsible for Global Warming/Climate change, if you are a believer in such? 2. If liberal democracy was responsible for it, do you believe that an autocratic system of self-identified elites are the only answer to solving it? How's that? Clarify "my claim" any? Firm

DomKen -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 4:02:22 PM)
This isn't a claim? quote: Now, I know that many people who "believe" in Global Warming/Climate Change are good intentioned .... but as I and some of the others have said on these forums, the problem is the way, method and people who seem to be most deeply "on board" with it ... seem to have their own power agenda. Now here comes a book that gives them philosophical justification. Expect to see their arguments showing up on in the media, and on the forums over the next couple of years. Careful on the drive.

MusicalBoredom -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 4:13:34 PM)
I do not share the same opinion on Global Warming as Firm but in regards to the post, I absolutely agree. I really don't like when politicians use this or any other cause where people have an emotional response or interest and use it to justify their own agenda -- an agenda which usually has nothing to do with the cause in the first place. D

luckydog1 -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 5:51:21 PM)
This is way old news, read the Book called "The Dream of the Earth".

kittinSol -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 5:55:18 PM)
Why has nobody who says global warming is nonsense replied to domiguy? He has made nothing but excellent points - not least the one that asks why you all question global warming's existence in the first place. If global warming really is a fallacy, I ask about all the other problems we are facing (water shortages, deforestation, particules in the air - the list is too long). I think it's convenient to say there is no environmental problems if you wish to continue pillaging the natural resources of the planet, and to use it as a trashcan. Sure, we can make lots of money in the short term. I suppose people don't give a shit right now, because they'll be dead when their shit hits the global fan later.

Aneirin -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 6:16:16 PM)
I do not believe in Global Warming as a direct process of man's existance on this planet. Global warming might exist, but for me, it is the planet doing it's thing as it always has done and always will do.I see the planets action as analogue as opposed to our more modern digital thought. One has to remember the planet, is not a dead lump of rock sitting in space, it has things going on within that only theorists can speculate, as what is truly at the core under all that fiery magma. I see it as an engine of sorts, it exists and from existing, it has a by product. That by product might very well be ' Life on Earth '. The engine that is the earth will exist as far as it can before it slows and dies. At which point I feel life will cease to exist on the surface. What we do on the surface may very well affect our lives, pollution, over harvesting or whatever. What we do in the world will affect us, we have to concern ourselves with our surface existance. Humanity is about short term gain, we over harvest everything, we need more and more all the time. When there is a glut of say fish caught for example, it becomes fertiliser, not food as originally intentioned. True, it may aid food to be grown, but also might aid plant life to become a fuel to be burned in transport. With the twentieth century came better transport and better machines, not to mention better communication. Is it that with our better machines we are able to over harvest and also communicate our discoveries based upon earlier times when machines were not as important?

TreasureKY -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 6:34:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Why has nobody who says global warming is nonsense replied to domiguy? Aside from the fact that Firm wanted to avoid the "does global warming exist" debate, he's currently on the road. While I'm sure he's keeping an eye on the forums with his laptop, I really prefer that he concentrate on arriving home to me safely. [;)]

celticlord2112 -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 6:40:24 PM)
The supreme irony of the book's conclusion is that, without exception, the most polluted places in the world are in totalitarian countries: Eastern Europe, Russia, China..... Free people make mistakes. Dictators perpetuate them.

bipolarber -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 6:58:32 PM)
Besides, global warming has a way of balancing itself out. The Earth has undergone hundreds of instances of climate change due to minor atmosphereic changes for endless centuries. There have even been a few during recorded history. (Google "The year without a summer") The temps will rise... leading to famine and economic collapse. Plauge will follow, and the desperate countries will turn to to war to get what they need to survive. The survivors of that will be unable to produce the level of CO2 that we do today, and eventually, the climate will normalize. (How many of us are left by then will be only a fraction of the Earth's current 6.5 billion.) But, we'll probably survive, and perhaps we'll come out of it a little wiser about how we use Earth's resources.

TreasureKY -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 7:03:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen This isn't a claim? quote: Now, I know that many people who "believe" in Global Warming/Climate Change are good intentioned .... but as I and some of the others have said on these forums, the problem is the way, method and people who seem to be most deeply "on board" with it ... seem to have their own power agenda. Now here comes a book that gives them philosophical justification. Expect to see their arguments showing up on in the media, and on the forums over the next couple of years. A claim? No. It looks like an opinion, to me, DomKen. But perhaps you believe I'm biased. [;)] As for your original comments, I can sort of understand why you made the comparison that you did and where you were going with it. But then again, I'm not sure exactly why you made it in the first place; no one has asserted that everyone who believes in global warming is looking to replace liberal democracy with an authoritarian system, or even has an agenda. However, what Firm said and many others agree with is that those who seem most fervent in their belief do appear to have an agenda with regard to seizing power. The book linked in the op looks as if it will just add fuel to the fire and lend "credence" to those who feel that the only way to combat global warming is to take control and make people do what they (the elite, experts or whatever you want to call them) believe is necessary. An authoritarian system with "them" as the authorities.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 7:30:42 PM)
what she said. [:)]

celticlord2112 -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 7:33:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bipolarber Besides, global warming has a way of balancing itself out. The Earth has undergone hundreds of instances of climate change due to minor atmosphereic changes for endless centuries. There have even been a few during recorded history. (Google "The year without a summer") The temps will rise... leading to famine and economic collapse. Plauge will follow, and the desperate countries will turn to to war to get what they need to survive. The survivors of that will be unable to produce the level of CO2 that we do today, and eventually, the climate will normalize. (How many of us are left by then will be only a fraction of the Earth's current 6.5 billion.) But, we'll probably survive, and perhaps we'll come out of it a little wiser about how we use Earth's resources. Somehow, the prospect of mass death fails to comfort.....but that's just me.

Owner59 -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 9:09:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MusicalBoredom I do not share the same opinion on Global Warming as Firm but in regards to the post, I absolutely agree. I really don't like when politicians use this or any other cause where people have an emotional response or interest and use it to justify their own agenda -- an agenda which usually has nothing to do with the cause in the first place. D It`s mid February(mid winter) and I just killed a mosquito.The ground is supposed to be frozen and the lakes are supposed to be iced over. Yeah,there`s no global warming,and mosquitoes don`t carry disease. Nothing to worry about......

Zensee -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 9:26:04 PM)
To me it's like this: If a study came out tomorrow suggesting there might, possibly, sort of, be a link between refined sugar and excessive nose-hair growth and I already know that sugar contributes to obesity, diabetes, heart disease, calcium depletion, neural dysfunction and a host of other toxic effects, I'd be stupid to continue wolfing down the white stuff simply because my *own* nose hairs do not seem to be affected... too terribly much. Hope you aren't posting while driving, Firm. Z.

DomKen -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 10:32:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TreasureKY A claim? No. It looks like an opinion, to me, DomKen. But perhaps you believe I'm biased. [;)] As for your original comments, I can sort of understand why you made the comparison that you did and where you were going with it. But then again, I'm not sure exactly why you made it in the first place; no one has asserted that everyone who believes in global warming is looking to replace liberal democracy with an authoritarian system, or even has an agenda. However, what Firm said and many others agree with is that those who seem most fervent in their belief do appear to have an agenda with regard to seizing power. The book linked in the op looks as if it will just add fuel to the fire and lend "credence" to those who feel that the only way to combat global warming is to take control and make people do what they (the elite, experts or whatever you want to call them) believe is necessary. An authoritarian system with "them" as the authorities. Now you see you've confused the issue with two different matters. Do the leaders of the enviromental movment have an agenda to gain greater power? You bet your ass they do. They try and educate politicians and support those sympathetic to their cause. Just as the anti enviromentalists do. The enviromentalists may be getting a little more desperate since 8 years of nothing is wrong policies have made things much worse. Do those leaders have an authoritarian streak? Some minority? definitely. That is true of any group and I'd argue it is far more prevalent on the right than the left on virtually all issues. However the vast majority of environmental leaders are supporters of democracy and would never support an authoritarian agenda. Now does liberal democracy contribute to polltion and global climate change? Not more than any other political system. Uncontrolled capitalism is definitely a contributor but so are all the other extant economic systems. Simply put short term profits rule over long term consequences and that thinking has to change or our future is bleak indeed. But that doesn't excuse the full tilt BS firmhand started this thread with and while I respect and like you guys I'm sick to death of this garbage being spouted by rightists here and elsewhere so expect that I'll call him or you on it every time I see it.

hisannabelle -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 10:44:49 PM)
greetings firmhandky, i don't think liberal democracy is directly responsible for global warming, but i do think consumerism IS directly responsible for global warming, and capitalism doesn't help. unfortunately both of those things are dependent on having a liberal democracy. having an authoritarian government would not by definition fix global warming, but it would definitely make it much easier to set a lot of the quotas and change a lot of the issues that are contributing to global warming, if the people in power chose to do so. personally, i don't understand why there are people arguing for or against whether global warming does or does not actually exist when there are plenty of environmental problems that undeniably DO exist and are very easy to recognize - that are much more devastating to people's lives than the possibility of global warming, have manmade causes, and have the possibility of manmade solutions. rather than actually DOING anything, though, let's just sit around and argue the existence of something that may or may not be caused by humans that isn't easily pinpointed with the naked eye. it's a good excuse for inaction, at least. respectfully, annabelle.

popeye1250 -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/8/2008 11:06:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl there isnt no global warming here!!! its fucking global snowing!!!! cant even walk anyplace...the snow banks are 6 feet high atleast. so trying to get to the curb to cross the street is damn hard...cause you gotta climb over the snow bank! we are having the WORST snow fall in over 10+ years! we're already at 128 points ...and last yr there was only 44 points all season! i am getting sick of this!!! someone get me to wenchies house!! shes in the sun!!! Faery, is it warm ANYWHERE in Canada during winter? I was wearing shorts yesterday and today. I think the only "obvious" thing out of all these studies is that 6 billion people is simply too much for the earth to sustain. Maybe the U.S. needs to stop importing grains to foreign countries. And yes I've heard that the other planets in our solar system are warming up at the exact same "rate" as the earth so that can mean only one thing, increased solar activity. And there's nothing that can be done about that!

atursvcMaam -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/9/2008 2:47:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl there isnt no global warming here!!! its fucking global snowing!!!! cant even walk anyplace...the snow banks are 6 feet high atleast. so trying to get to the curb to cross the street is damn hard...cause you gotta climb over the snow bank! we are having the WORST snow fall in over 10+ years! we're already at 128 points ...and last yr there was only 44 points all season! i am getting sick of this!!! someone get me to wenchies house!! shes in the sun!!! it may be snowing, but is it warmer?

atursvcMaam -> RE: Exactly Where I Suspected Global Warming Was Going ... (2/9/2008 2:57:46 AM)
If we are going to discuss the political leanings of the globe having an effect on the environment, were the dinosaurs democrats, and the Mastodons Republicans? Nothing better than a liberal pterodactyl, and if one wishes to discuss consumerism, what about the Tyrannosaurus Rex...the king of consumers. The earth is going though a natural cycle. if you find yourself concerned, don't worry about it happening, but what can be done to survive it. emulate the cockroach, perhaps that survived the ice ages. just a humble opinion.

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