RE: Before you Vote for Billary?

RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (Full Version)

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Gwynvyd -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/11/2008 9:29:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: knees2you Don't move to Australia either? My wife says the Elderly over in England are dying at an alarming rate. Now You didn't think they wanted You to live as long as Moses did You? That's why we have Cigarettes, Drugs, Booze. etc. Think of what the Talibany will do if we Elect Billary. {well a Woman of any sorts} We are all going to be A "One World Order anyways!" You'll see. As Always, ant[sm=idea.gif] Ahhh and there we have it folks.. the moment of clairity.... the reason why so many in our country and others would never vote for Hillary, and are leading the charge against her.. because they think that a woman leader is weak.... Well no female would ever know how to lead no army... she would just roll over and die. Would run to her bedroom and cry.. and want a manicure. Bloody sodding wankers. I am going to be really assumptious and speak for us weak poor little females here..... may I remind you of Eleanor of Aquitaine, She insisted on taking part in the Crusades as the feudal leader of the soldiers from her duchy. The story that she and her ladies dressed as Amazons is disputed by serious historians; however, her testimonial launch of the Second Crusade from Vézelay, the rumored location of Mary Magdalene´s burial, dramatically emphasized the role of women in the campaign. Queen Elizabeth I Who defeated the Spanish Armada in 1588 ( which was monumental and seen as one of the greatest victories in British history ) She brought in The Golden Age. A time of new prosperity when she had the government handed over to her the coffers were near empty, and the Country was at odds and close to war on many fronts. A religious uproar was in full force between the Catholics, and the Protestants. Pope Pius V even excommunicated her. They thought of her as a feeble woman then.. and they in time learned better.. you would think if they learned that back in 1588 surely us over here across the pond would have the good sense to know better. Elizabeth inspected her troops at Tilbury in Essex on 8 August. Wearing a silver breastplate over a white velvet dress, she addressed them in one of her most famous speeches:[104] "My loving people, we have been persuaded by some that are careful of our safety, to take heed how we commit ourself to armed multitudes for fear of treachery; but I assure you, I do not desire to live to distrust my faithful and loving people....I know I have the body but of a weak and feeble woman, but I have the heart and stomach of a king, and of a King of England too, and think foul scorn that Parma or Spain, or any Prince of Europe should dare to invade the borders of my realm. Then we have the current female world leaders.... http://www.filibustercartoons.com/charts_rest_female-leaders.php Ireland President Mary McAleese elected 1997 New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark elected 1999 Finland President Tarja Halonen elected 2000 The Philippines President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo succeeded 2001, elected 2004 Mozambique Prime Minister Luisa Diogo appointed 2004 Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel elected 2005 Liberia President Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf elected 2006 Chile President Michelle Bachelet elected 2006 Switzerland President Micheline Calmy-Rey appointed 2007 India President Pratibha Patil elected 2007 I mean com'on... India and freakin' Liberia have women leaders.... lets pull our heads out of our asses and grade people on thier merits.. not whats in thier pants.. not thier skin color... not who they are, or are not fucking. In the words of my dearly Strong ass mother... Oh Evolve! Gwyn, Who as my Girl, and my men call me.. Amazon warrior bitch Goddess. Now back to your normaly schedualed functions.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/11/2008 9:33:32 PM)
Well if an accurate poll were taken of combat personel, I wonder what they would think of her. Yes some females can lead in a military situation, but that does not automatically mean Swillary Clinton can.

Owner59 -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/11/2008 9:39:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Well if an accurate poll were taken of combat personel, I wonder what they would think of her. Yes some females can lead in a military situation, but that does not automatically mean Swillary Clinton can. Considering what we have now, a wooden post would be a better leader. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m8.gif[/image]

MzMia -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/11/2008 9:57:39 PM)
I am smack dab in the middle on this issue. I tend to want Universal Health Care, but the American government has ways of making life a freaking nightmare. I am not sure how the British manage things, but here in America? The bureacracy alone would probably kill most of us. I feel strongly that everyone has a right to decent health care, and it damn sure should be made more affordable. I would love to see a variety of lower premiums and inexpensive policies offered to those that have no coverage. A lot of the problem is if you are not with a large company, you just can't afford the damn premiums! Why can't the government/insurance companies create policies for about $50 a month for people with no insurance? Instead of policies that are $200-$400 a month? There is a middle ground here, I hope we find it. There is no doubt, something is going to have to change, when it comes to health care.

knees2you -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/11/2008 10:14:09 PM)
Ireland President Mary McAleese elected 1997 New Zealand Prime Minister Helen Clark elected 1999 Finland President Tarja Halonen elected 2000 The Philippines President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo succeeded 2001, elected 2004 Mozambique Prime Minister Luisa Diogo appointed 2004 Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel elected 2005 Liberia President Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf elected 2006 Chile President Michelle Bachelet elected 2006 Switzerland President Micheline Calmy-Rey appointed 2007 India President Pratibha Patil elected 2007 *Just wondering, if any of these woman have ever fired a missle or given the order to destroy innocent lives??[sm=crop.gif]* *as always, ant[sm=idea.gif]*

LadyAyla7053 -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/11/2008 10:29:37 PM)
I was reading a book one day and in that book (I don't remember the title of it but) the men went to war and protected home and the women were at home taking care of things. It wasn't because women weren't able to be warriors or anything like that. The reason in the book stated that we women would be too dangerous and bloodthirsty and if you really think about it what is more dangerous than a she-bear or lioness defending their young? Or for that matter a human woman protecting her children from anything that harms them. To all the mothers out there what happens when your son or daughter comes to you and says "I've been hurt." Or something along those lines? I am not a mother nor will I ever be but I know when I see a child crying or in pain I see red and want to completely destroy whatever has caused harm to that child. So if you think of a woman for president is a bad thing it may be on that aspect because she may see the US as her child and anything that harms her child would most likely be obiliderated(sp?). As for Universal Health Care, I'm kinda biased on that. I have medicaid and have had for my entire life. Would I like better insurance? Sure would. Will I ever get it? Doubtful. I have a HIV and no healthcare insurance wants to have me as a member. Shoot one of my meds I could buy a nice car. Personally I am behind Hillary Clinton in running for president. I remember how it was when her husband was in office and for me they were good years. Yeah there were mistakes that shouldn't have been made but think about this. Where was Hillary will Bill was in office? Don't you think she gave some ideas to him. I've always believed that pillowtalk is a powerful thing.

LadyEllen -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 3:28:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: knees2you *Just wondering, if any of these woman have ever fired a missle or given the order to destroy innocent lives??[sm=crop.gif]* *as always, ant[sm=idea.gif]* Just wondering whether you truly believe that doing so is the mark of a good leader? Just wondering whether you truly believe that male leaders dont prefer "jaw jaw" to "war war"? Just wondering whether you truly believe that male leaders do not agonize over the decisions they must sometimes make, and wish there was some other way? (well, apart from Bush and assorted other "key planks" of world leadership) Just wondering whether you heard of one Margaret Thatcher? Some "real men" down in Argentina thought that with a "weak woman" in charge of the UK, they could seize some of our territory - they soon found out that they had underestimated her and overestimated themselves by comparison. She was an absolute disaster for this country in almost every other way, but on that one aspect of her leadership, she did well - and better than the males around her who waivered at the prospect of war. E

christine1 -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 5:00:09 AM)
i'm not going to vote for billary...i'm going to write in Jeffff....[sm=mrpuffy.gif]

orfunboi -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 6:03:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs quote: ORIGINAL: knees2you *Hillary wants an Universal health care plan* *like they have in England.* *My Wife is from England and says to anybody* *who does not know Englands health care system,* *They are in for a Rude Awakening!![sm=horse.gif]* *As Always, ant[sm=boxer.gif]* After having someone close to me die of cancer recently that could have been diagnosed and prevented before it spread everywhere and killed her if she had health care ... I'm tired of the bullshit against universal health care. Just tired of it. C~ I am confused. Where did your friend go to try and get diagnosed? Was she refused treatment? Did they give her a reason why they would not look at her?

orfunboi -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 6:13:21 AM)
I have no problem with a women for president. Your right in that there are a lot of strong intelligent women who would do an awesome job. Maybe if the democrats could find one of those women, I would even vote for her. But they haven't yet, so.......

caitlyn -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 6:43:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I also cannot believe you have all people, would use such extreme and ludicrous examples, to prove your point. You can do better than that caitlyn, and you know it. Actually, one can't. Once the person you are debating with discusses how great things are in their own back yard, and starts discussing giving the federal government complete control, the discussion is largely over. On the first point, I'm happy for you community ... no doubt a huge representation of the total population. On the second point, not only did I not say "federal government complete control" ... I went out of my way to use the word managed, and even added emphasis, by saying it twice. Truth be told, I'm more inclined to favor state regulation and management of services, based on rates negotiated by the federal government. So, you are attacking points I never made, and ducked the single question people on your side always seem to duck ... and then insist my arguments could be better. Thats cool ... moving on.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 7:06:38 AM)
Rather than considering what we have now, I would rather take the logical approach of considering all that are electable. quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Well if an accurate poll were taken of combat personel, I wonder what they would think of her. Yes some females can lead in a military situation, but that does not automatically mean Swillary Clinton can. Considering what we have now, a wooden post would be a better leader. [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m8.gif[/image]

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 7:15:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf It is a generalization, but it is far from false. A very small percentage actually is so poor that they do not have at least one of the things I listed, but you know what, if they fall and break their leg they still get treated at the hospital. Actually, there are legions of homeless and runaway children that have none of those things, and no healthcare. If you are a runaway, and God only knows what you are running away from ... if you go for care, guess what they will do after they give it to you? Thats right, they turn you over to the police, who will send you back to what you were running from in the first place ... or, perhaps even somewhere worse. The State is designed to provide for children that have unfit parents. Likely runaways will always have a problem getting anything, because the problem is at their home. What percentage of uninsured would you say runaways are? Is there some statistical data for me to look at? quote: But, just for the sake of argument, lets all pretend you are right ... which you aren't, but we can pretend ... and the percentage is very small. Why then, do we have such a hard time providing something to such a small percentage? What small percentage? I have seen various statistics out there, and some contradict one another. I believe it is likely a state or regional issue, and if so then it needs to be addressed at that level. quote: Seems a simple question. I will also take a stab at why we need universal healthcare, managed by the government (with emphasis on the word managed). Public health passes the test of promoting the common good, etc ... Private insurance companies, using our health to turn a profit, is only promoting the common evil. I see the conduct of private insurance companies, roughly on par with traders in slaves, corporations using child labor working 16 hour shifts in coal mines, or people trading Small-pox infested blankets to American Indians. The latter three ran their course and are now black marks on American history. Time to put "your health for profit" in the same dark museum. I have stated before that the insurance issue needs to be addressed, but look at what else I have posted, along with Ellen's. The runaway's are the extreme example I was refering to. There are many laws and regulations that could be imposed that would fall under someone's definition of the "common good". Many dictator's have seized power using those words. Everyone keeps refering to the huge amount of uninsured, and all I am asking is where are they?

MzMia -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 7:18:57 AM)
I just wanted to say, this is an example of a great thread. These are the types of threads I enjoy on CollarMe. I enjoy all the different points of views here. Stimulating debate and great conversation, comrades! [sm=applause.gif]

LadyEllen -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 7:36:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Everyone keeps refering to the huge amount of uninsured, and all I am asking is where are they? I really dont know how many are uninsured, but I get the impression that there are many more who do have insurance and yet cannot access what they need because of policy limitations and exclusions or because of having to pay policy excesses which they cannot afford. The issue is that some are uninsured - whether because they cant pay, prefer to spend it elsewhere (under a national scheme or state scheme they'd have no choice on this) or are too ill already to qualify, but the wider issue - which from what I understand impacts on almost all, is that even with insurance one is not necessarily able to get the treatment one might need. As such, it affects many more than the uninsured and can affect anyone. E

MzMia -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 7:40:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Everyone keeps refering to the huge amount of uninsured, and all I am asking is where are they? I really dont know how many are uninsured, but I get the impression that there are many more who do have insurance and yet cannot access what they need because of policy limitations and exclusions or because of having to pay policy excesses which they cannot afford. The issue is that some are uninsured - whether because they cant pay, prefer to spend it elsewhere (under a national scheme or state scheme they'd have no choice on this) or are too ill already to qualify, but the wider issue - which from what I understand impacts on almost all, is that even with insurance one is not necessarily able to get the treatment one might need. As such, it affects many more than the uninsured and can affect anyone. E Thank you for explaining the health care system in the UK for us, Lady E. You did an excellent job. I plan to go back and read your every word. Is there an age such as over 85, that they refuse to pay for operations?

caitlyn -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 7:41:48 AM)
Don't worry, we are going door-to-door to count homeless people and runaway children. [;)]

carlie310 -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 7:48:57 AM)
Universal health care violates the 10th amendment to the Constitution. I can't imagine the government being able to create a system that is more effective than our current one. (Note: I also agree our current one is broken. I just don't think government is the answer.)

LadyEllen -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 7:51:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia Is there an age such as over 85, that they refuse to pay for operations? There is no overt policy of refusing anyone - but there is a system at work which was brought to light whereby the cost effectiveness of treating was assessed, measuring the cost of treatment against the value of the prognosis. Under that system it can be recommended that if the treatment is not going to be cost effective in terms of providing useful extension to life and/or increased quality of life then it should not be provided. In some ways this is fair enough if we're talking about some situations. For instance, alcoholics needing liver transplants are not likely to receive approval. Elderly patients who are terminally ill are not likely to receive approval for a hip replacement for instance. Its about making the most of the resources available to produce the best outcomes possible within those resources for as many as possible. But it also leads to some very distressing situations as it seems that the system is predicated against the elderly in some areas - the idea being that their age and the proximity of their likely deaths means its not value for money to provide treatment, and sometimes this is applied even where there is no evidence of proximate mortality for any reason other than age. This is unacceptable of course - the elderly of today gave us the health service and paid in for decades through their taxes. Many end up selling their homes to pay for care. However, as our population ages I think we will see a change in the operation of the value for money system. E

Gwynvyd -> RE: Before you Vote for Billary? (2/12/2008 11:07:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Well if an accurate poll were taken of combat personel, I wonder what they would think of her. Yes some females can lead in a military situation, but that does not automatically mean Swillary Clinton can. Last I knew Dubbya wasnt in charge of the Armed forces... hell that B movie Cowboy Regan wasnt either when he was in office... Generals... and Commanders are in charge of the military. Men and Women who train thier whole adult lives to do that job actualy do that job. All the President does is sign off on things after being advised by thier cabinet. The Department of Defense is headed by a civilian; the Secretary of Defense, who is appointed by the President of the United States. Under the Secretary of Defense, there are three military departments: The Department of the Army, the Department of the Air Force, and the Department of the Navy. Each of these military departments are also headed up by civilians; the Secretary of the Army, the Secretary of the Air Force, and the Secretary of the Navy. These "service secretaries" are also appointed by the President. So the President "appoints" these offices. Does not run. Biiiig diff. I come from a military family. Trust me I know what the Good Ol boys would say.. still doesnt mean those knuckle heads are right.. these are the very same dumbasses that think gays can hold a gun. I still love seeing the look on thier faces when my girl and I go to the range. Gwyn

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