I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (Full Version)

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lovingmaster45 -> I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/11/2005 4:50:48 AM)

I posted several days ago about how class trumped race in the fiasco in New Orleans. Friday night I was listening to NPR and the first-person accounts of how the police were refusing to let "those people" cross the bridge to West NO and was blown away by their classism/racism...yes I have linked it. I have linked it because in New Orleans race=class. I suspect that outside academic circles, this is pretty much the case in most instances. It might be Native Americans in New Mexico, Mexicans in Arizona, Puerto Ricans in NY, or Vietnamese in Alabama; but it is ugly.
The story that most struck me was of the 8 paramedics who were at a convention in the French Quarter and their struggle to leave the city. It was only after one of the firemen was able to get a cell phone signal and call his union which found a union contact in LA., that they were able to escape. Their enemies? The police, the sheriff's department of the neighboring Parish, and the National Guard and Army.
The racial angle was that he was only allowed to come out with his family members. This presented a problem since there were 4 whites, one Puerto Rican, and 3 blacks. He concocted a store about in-laws and foster children which got them all home safely, while the other 70 or so they had been trapped with had to remain behind.
I wish I had been able to record the show; but I was driving and unable to do so. I was once-again reminded that class has been trumped by race in this country. My sympathies to my non-white friends.



anopheles -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/11/2005 9:29:31 AM)

Master Jerry:

Don't you hate that it has come to this? I wish I had been able to visit New Orleans before the disaster, so I could have seen for myself the color lines, so to speak. I have been through the deep South before, and although it was a few years ago, at least at the time, and apparently now, racial prejudice seems to still be prevalent. I stopped in places in Alabama and Georgia where I thought it wasn't 1997, but 1957. It was my sincere hope that dynamic had changed, but it hadn't.


We're all just people. So my skin might be darker, and my accent might be different. To me, that doesn't make the measure of a man.

Your story saddens me.



shylittleheart -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/11/2005 9:48:02 AM)

Well being my family comes orginally from New Orleans and know first hand from visiting there on a regular basis, I have to disagree. New Orleans is not a place where someones race matters. You can walk down the streets and find all mixes and everyone getting along. Whites are the minority there. But I refuse to make this a issue of color.
If you are talking about those not getting help( it is all who did not get help) when needed to get out of harms way or help after the storm, it was not just those of color or china man, or cajun, or indian .......it was all not getting the help as needed. Including the white. I hate to see this storm turn into a race war, for it is NOT> It is a storm which has caused millions of people along THE WHOLE COAST problems and in need. Understand after a hurrincane of this strength hits, it takes days to get help into an area. Roads are block, no gas for hundreds of miles to get supplies to where they are needed. I believe the goverment is trying to help and has helped many and will continue to help as needed. My family still lives on the coast, most in the Gulfport and Biloxi area and they lost it all. They have no buildings to repair, they have to rebuild. Yes New Orleans was flooded, but that damage will be fixed and New Orleans will survive, but think of those in need who have nothing. Dont make this a fight over what color of people have or dont have, get or dont get. Remember most in that area are poor and do not have alot,they have been hit hard and need the support of the public to get back on their feet. Some are just luck some arent.
Remember this, until you have lived in that area and been through a storm of this nature you will never know how it is. I have lived in the South all my life and have been through several major hurricanes, from Camille, To Hugo. Lets all just support each other and help as we can. I just came back from Biloxi and if You havent seen it in person, you have no idea how it really is.

I wish each well and do not wish to make any fights over something we have no control over,
shy



LadyJC -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/11/2005 12:52:42 PM)

Unfortunately yes it was bad weather, and yes a lot of people were hurt and injured. But yes it's about colour. I hate to break it to you.
My mom was telling me one day there was a picture of a person wading through water and it said underneath that this man looted a store.
Another picture showed a person carrying bags of food stating "This person wades through water after finding bread and fluids."
Tell me which one was white and which one was black. They both did the same thing go and try and survive, yet which one is the looter?
A guy from Niagara went for a vacation and ended up in the middle of the storm. He and his mom and brother went to the rescue area where all the people were. The majority were black. For the first time in his life he was considered the minority.
Everywhere was a bathroom, he was given special treatment for 2 reasons, he was white and his mom happened to be a nurse, he even felt guilty for these special treatments.
He also didn't feel safe, he stated, that several people gave him dirty looks, and one who happened to be black licked his lips at him. The young man even stated to he hated to make it an issue about colour, but it was.
Now he was really there and was there for the whole storm. So to me that makes his opinion very valuable.
LadyJC



sub4hire -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/11/2005 1:20:16 PM)

Instead of announcing how racism is running rampant through the US still, (something which each and every one of us knows even if we don't say it daily) help them.

I'm sure they would appreciate your help much more than complaining about it sitting on a message board.



pantera -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/11/2005 2:17:10 PM)

yes- help is what we need right now- -

and let's not forget that we are only victims if we allow ourselves to be- ...and sometimes we allow ourselves to be victims of our own culture- good thing there is power within everyone to change that-



Lordandmaster -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/11/2005 3:10:50 PM)

It's not one or the other, sub4hire. In fact, pointing out a problem that many people are STILL blind to is a way of making sure that it doesn't happen next time. And shylittleheart: most of the racism we're talking about is not IN New Orleans. It's DIRECTED AT New Orleans from outside. (You can start looking for it in the Governor's office.)

I could take a lot of potshots at lovingmaster right now, considering how derisive he was about this on the other thread, but instead I have to commend him for being big enough to change his mind.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Instead of announcing how racism is running rampant through the US still, (something which each and every one of us knows even if we don't say it daily) help them.

I'm sure they would appreciate your help much more than complaining about it sitting on a message board.





frenchpet -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/11/2005 4:09:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyJC

My mom was telling me one day there was a picture of a person wading through water and it said underneath that this man looted a store.
Another picture showed a person carrying bags of food stating "This person wades through water after finding bread and fluids."
Tell me which one was white and which one was black. They both did the same thing go and try and survive, yet which one is the looter?
LadyJC

Those pictures were published by AP. Salon made an article about it http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/09/01/photo_controversy/index_np.html


edit : ... My bad, the picture with the very racist comment (this guy probably took a lot of food that he shared with people too old or too weak to go themselves, how dare they call him looter ???) was published by AP, the other one by the french agency Agence France Presse (AFP).



Tristan -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/11/2005 4:44:52 PM)

It seems to me that everyone is seeing in this exactly what he or she wants to see. People are seeing one incident and jumping to huge conclusions about the entire event. Is there racism in America...absolutely! No group is ever going to completely prevent each and every member of it's group from having negative feelings or beliefs about those outside their group. Was there racism in New Orleans...maybe. If there was, show me evidence on a wide scale not just one or two incidences. Katrina effected hundreds of square miles and millions of people not just New Orleans. So much happened that I can easily pick out a few events or pictures to support anything I want to support.



sub4hire -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/11/2005 7:11:10 PM)

quote:

It's not one or the other, sub4hire. In fact, pointing out a problem that many people are STILL blind to is a way of making sure that it doesn't happen next time.


That is not true. Yes, if we don't learn from history we are bound to repeat it. However, just by pointing it out does not mean we are learning. Many are not.

How many times have you seen me point out liar's? I can post threads of contradictions yet does it change things? That is a single example.

The west coast is more open to homosexuals than the rest of the country. By me pointing it out is it going to change anyone?

I've just spent a week with a group of people who do not embrace their own brother because they are homophobic. People just don't change on a whim.



luvdragonx -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/11/2005 11:13:26 PM)

So you're saying we shouldn't bother talking about it?



pantera -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/12/2005 5:19:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tristan

It seems to me that everyone is seeing in this exactly what he or she wants to see. People are seeing one incident and jumping to huge conclusions about the entire event. Is there racism in America...absolutely! No group is ever going to completely prevent each and every member of it's group from having negative feelings or beliefs about those outside their group. Was there racism in New Orleans...maybe. If there was, show me evidence on a wide scale not just one or two incidences. Katrina effected hundreds of square miles and millions of people not just New Orleans. So much happened that I can easily pick out a few events or pictures to support anything I want to support.


very well said- nothing to add or substract-



sub4hire -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/12/2005 7:58:08 AM)

quote:

So you're saying we shouldn't bother talking about it?


No, I'm saying what have you personally done to end racism? If you have children have you opened your home to other colors?
Aside from just preaching to people. What have we all done? That is what it takes to change things.

Most of my life my nickname has been the United Nations...because in my personal life I travel with one of almost every color. Not because of color but because they are my friends. So, if a person had grown up around me all racism would be dissipated.



frenchpet -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/12/2005 8:22:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
y nickname has been the United Nations...because in my personal life I travel with one of almost every color. Not because of color but because they are my friends. So, if a person had grown up around me all racism would be dissipated.

As it's often the case with fear / hatred feelings. I was completely homophobic when I was a teenager (I was just following others' ideas), until I realized one of my friends was homosexual.



JohnWarren -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/12/2005 8:45:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: frenchpet

As it's often the case with fear / hatred feelings. I was completely homophobic when I was a teenager (I was just following others' ideas), until I realized one of my friends was homosexual.


This is why I urge people in the scene to be as out as possible about their interests. What people fear is the unknown, the different. The Right Wing preachers can get them all worked up about the "terrible perverts" but when they know one of those "terrible perverts" is Jay "The guy who loaned me his lawnmower" the lable loses a lot of its effect.

It's easy to invest the unknown with a terrible face. Remember the ancient maps with "here be monsters" on them?

When I meet with people and, in particular, with the media, I always wear a tailored three piece suit and make sure my hair and beard are neatly trimmed.

I recall one time I was doing a "remote" (The interviewer was in New York and I was in a little room in Boston with a camera trained on me.) Until it was time to speak with me the monitor on his end was turned off. I guess he must have been expecting a hulking brute wearing half a cow because when they turned it on, right on live television, he blurted out "you look just like my next door neighbor." My response? "We ARE your neighbors."



fastlane -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/12/2005 12:06:32 PM)

We should only recognize one race, no, not the Kentucky Derby, Lol.

The Human Race! Prejudice and Bigots suck!



luvdragonx -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/12/2005 2:20:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

quote:

So you're saying we shouldn't bother talking about it?


No, I'm saying what have you personally done to end racism? If you have children have you opened your home to other colors?
Aside from just preaching to people. What have we all done? That is what it takes to change things.

Most of my life my nickname has been the United Nations...because in my personal life I travel with one of almost every color. Not because of color but because they are my friends. So, if a person had grown up around me all racism would be dissipated.



We don't really have a choice when it comes to exposing our children to other colors. Even if we wanted to, we would be hard pressed to completely limit their interactions and friendships to a particular race. The same goes for us as adults. It would take a LONG time to meet and befriend enough people of color to 'replace' the non-black friends I have now.

The truth of it is, as a white person in this country, you could conceivably live your entire life dealing solely with a white community, and not think anything of it. So in your eyes, you have a choice. On the other side of things, it's is virtually impossible to live a similar life around only black people, or hispanic, or Asian. The majority of employers are non black, and if I was going to have at least one job in my lifetime (I've had several), there is no choice. Most of the people in our city are non-black, so when our kids go to school, or play at the park, or go with me to the grocery store, non-black faces are common. When they watch TV, non-black faces are abundant. When they read books, or go to the movies - again, many non-black faces.

So basically, the effort you say it takes to be open to other races is the same effort it would take for me to be CLOSED to other races. I could have grown up as a racist - my grandmother has and still does harbor deep resentment toward whites because of her childhood, and other races because of other experiences she's had. But I realized early on that to hate non-blacks was to rage against the machine - they were in all the places I wanted to be, so to carry that kind of negativity was pointless. I've met and known people of all colors who give racists fuel for their fires of hatred. Yet most of the people I meet are just people, regardless of the color of their skin. They allow me to see them that way because I allow them to see me that way.

So when people say that the way to end racism is to 'do something about it', I often wonder what there is to DO. When people tell me that they aren't racist, and that they make a point to mingle with all colors, I can't help but think that they still see a fundamental difference between 'us' and 'them', only 'they' are being nice to 'us', so it's all good, right? (usually on days when I'm feeling a bit snarky) I can and do appreciate the intentions of people who want to show their support and consideration of all colors, but the day I'm hoping for is when people stop patting themselves on the back for having black/asian/latino/white friends and start being proud of having great people as friends.

edited for typos and a nod to lovingmaster45, for having the courage and heart to openly state his change in thinking.



darkinshadows -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/12/2005 3:05:40 PM)

quote:

No, I'm saying what have you personally done to end racism? If you have children have you opened your home to other colors?
Aside from just preaching to people. What have we all done? That is what it takes to change things.

Most of my life my nickname has been the United Nations...because in my personal life I travel with one of almost every color. Not because of color but because they are my friends. So, if a person had grown up around me all racism would be dissipated.


I personally think that the thread says alot and that speaking up that one has noticed, is doing something to end racism. If I see it, I speak out against it - thats what we can do.

I am sure I could say I 'mix' with people of different colour, but I dont - I just mix with people. I don't see colour, we are all pink inside - and the colour of our skin doesnt give away the race,creed,sexual preference or religion that we are.

I don't teach my children that our home is open to people of all colours, I just open it. I just teach my children that every person should be treated with dignity. I do not teach colour, disability, race, religion differences because thats what is pointed out to them then - differences. I am totally blessed that my son stood up to people in his school, of his own inititive because they were making homophobic jokes the other day and the teacher contacted me to commend him.
I don't surround my children with other colours. I surround them with people. I do not teach them peoples differences and highlight them, I teach them about differences, so they can understand them and have no fear because fear comes from not understanding. But they don't see people as being different to them, they just see people.

Peace and Love.



sub4hire -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/12/2005 3:54:10 PM)

quote:

So when people say that the way to end racism is to 'do something about it', I often wonder what there is to DO. When people tell me that they aren't racist, and that they make a point to mingle with all colors, I can't help but think that they still see a fundamental difference between 'us' and 'them', only 'they' are being nice to 'us', so it's all good (usually on days when I'm feeling a bit snarky) I can and do appreciate the intentions of people who want to show their support and consideration of all colors. They day I'm hoping for is when people stop patting themselves on the back for having black/asian/latino/white friends and start being proud of having great people as friends.


I live in California. Your response got me to thinking that there are states where white is still the majority. I'm sure they are few anymore.
I just got home from a week in the midwest, surrounded by whites who were racist. While attempting to talk to them I got nowhere. Racist's breeding more racist children.
Where I saw mostly whites there were also latino's around. They were the one's most complained about. There were also blacks.
It wsan't until the hurricane and talk of moving some of the "black" refugee's into these areas that it really got nasty.
I grew up in an all white neighborhood. Once a year for two weeks we were bussed into an all black or latino neighborhood for segregation. Just to live on the other side of the street so to speak. I don't know if it helped me or not.

I guess what I'm actually saying here is it is hard for me to imagine an all white race anywhere in the US at this point in time. Of course that could be because I live in California as well. To me a person is a person period.




LadyJC -> RE: I was wrong about racism in New Orleans (9/12/2005 4:26:59 PM)

I've opened up my home to people of colours, but I don't see them that way. One of my friend's happens to be Korean, she tried to even teach me to speak korean...but you need to be able to roll your tongue really well one of the few things I can't do with my tongue.
I dated a black guy for a while but he didn't want anything serious. One day he came to meet my family, my 7 yr. old nephew asked him why his skin was so dark?
He said cause his mom was dark, we proceeded to explain to him that his skin is just a different colour but his blood is red just like ours. He understood and didn't ask anymore questions. My boyfriend at the time thought it was rather funny. I on the other hand was embarrassed. We live in a primarily white city, I remember in school there was one girl who was black in our grade. God I hated her not cause of her colour but she was just a bitch.
I even did a fundraiser for school to help stop racism when I was a kid. I just get so sick listening to stories about people who are looters, vs. someone just finding resources. It's quite annoying and disgusts me each time.
LadyJC



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