The hardest task of all

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MsSavra -> The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 2:49:35 PM)
They demand "the strictest Mistress", the "harshest treatment", but as soon as you expect them to THINK they run. Is it only me, or have you experienced this, too? You talk to a sub, point out a few obvious blunders or instances of impolite/inconsiderate behaviour, and as soon as you ask him to think about it Mr Super-Sub feels incapable to obey such a hard, demanding taskmaster - or rather -mistress. Is THINKing the hardest task I can ask of a sub? Since when has a little reflection on his own behaviour become a hard limit? irritated MsSavra

Aimtoplease101 -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 2:53:12 PM)
I think it is perhaps a manifestation of laziness. Many subs, it seems, want their Domme to do all the thinking, planning, and orchestration of the relationship. They may be able to follow simple orders, but don't want to engage their intellect or creativity. Regards, ATP

MsSavra -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 2:56:28 PM)
Interesting. Especially since I always thought it was their intellect, their creativity which made them more valuable. Let's face it, there are not too many plantation owners out there anymore, who would want nothing more of their slaves but dull manual labour from sun rise to sun set.

Aimtoplease101 -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 3:00:20 PM)
Well that's part of the winnowing process-- I suppose the ones who don't want to engage the mind will drop out when you ask them to turn on the lights upstairs, and not just zone out in sub space. Regards, ATP

MistressFaye1 -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 3:31:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsSavra They demand "the strictest Mistress", the "harshest treatment", but as soon as you expect them to THINK they run. Is it only me, or have you experienced this, too? You talk to a sub, point out a few obvious blunders or instances of impolite/inconsiderate behaviour, and as soon as you ask him to think about it Mr Super-Sub feels incapable to obey such a hard, demanding taskmaster - or rather -mistress. Is THINKing the hardest task I can ask of a sub? Since when has a little reflection on his own behaviour become a hard limit? irritated MsSavra I feel you on this one big time! Geeze, is it possible we're dealing with the same person???? Seriously though. I am going through this now. brat wants me to write out each and every behavioral expectation for every situation. Some of it is common respect and courtesy towards others especially. Yet, he is a former pilot and the owner of three businesses that are doing quite well, yet when it comes to me he is as juvenile as one can get. This is my first time experiencing it but from what I've heard from others, they've seen it happen too. Initially I thought it was to push me to punish and when I thought that was the connection I punished in nonphysical ways and that doesn't work. he seems to loose the ability to think with me and I find myself wondering how in the hell he could have accomplished as much as he has in the vanilla world. I'm interested to see what others say. Faye

DreamyLadySnow -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 4:58:10 PM)
I, too, have found many subs who think that they get off easy - never having to use their brains or make a decision. Being someone's sub/slave requires a tremendous amount of self-discipline and smarts. They're not babies, I'm not their mommy. We don't go there. If they don't like it, the door opens both ways. LS

Madame4a -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 5:14:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DreamyLadySnow I, too, have found many subs who think that they get off easy - never having to use their brains or make a decision. Being someone's sub/slave requires a tremendous amount of self-discipline and smarts. They're not babies, I'm not their mommy. We don't go there. If they don't like it, the door opens both ways. LS this is why my profile says something about being able to take care of yourself... its not likely to help in all situations, but at least I've set up the expectation... as soon as the relationship feels parental to me, or someone becomes too dependent on me for the parts of their life I think they should manage, I'm unhappy.. I want an intelligent and mature adult in a relationship, no matter what kind of time we spend together

LadyPact -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 6:02:03 PM)
I can't help Myself but to say that is why so many of the regularly posting subs on this site are so appealing. They not only know how to think, they are even articulate when it comes to expressing themselves.

rubberpet -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 9:16:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyPact I can't help Myself but to say that is why so many of the regularly posting subs on this site are so appealing. They not only know how to think, they are even articulate when it comes to expressing themselves. Why thank you, LadyPact![:)] I never knew you found me so appealing! LOL Sorry..I couldn't resist! Seriously, there are quite a few brainy subs on here and it is a treat to read their thoughts and opinions. The subs that are so afraid to make a decision or think for themselves are either really lazy or living in a fantasy world. They might live in a fantasy world where their only concern is licking boots, being whipped and beaten, and living a life on a tropical island where every decision is made for them by leatherclad dommes. No wonder so many dommes are cruel, heartless, and intolerent of stupidity and bullshit. All the good subs are taken. The ones that are not quite the right fit still make good friends to exchange stories and witty banter with. Long live the subbies with brains and the backbone to express their thoughts!

xxblushesxx -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 9:36:27 PM)
Hmm... I'm not sure. I do know that when HoneyMaster points out imperfections of mine, or errors, that I am very sensitive to that. I may shut down and not wish to talk. (because I am ashamed) I may express my own opinion on what has happened. Sometimes our opinions on the situation are polar opposites. When that happens, it is sometimes good for both sides to cool off. That being said, it's much easier to submit to a physical punishment than to an emotional one. Flog me, crop me...(don't cane me though...lol), but please don't point out my deficiancies. That might hurt... ~Christina

darchChylde -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 10:20:09 PM)
i've managed to somehow make it to 30 years old before meeting Ma'am without making a total wreck of myself. Yes, i've had my set backs, some minor and some major that have made my current life much more difficult than maybe it could have been. Yes, i have some problems with self-confidence in certain social circumstances. Yes, i am somewhat under-developed emotionally due to a horrific experience and, even more so, the way i reacted to it. But i sought a Dominant, not a mother or a baby-sitter. i've come a long way, before and after meeting Ma'am; and i sought someone to help guide me, not live my life. She has done much for me, simply by being who She is and being there for me when i have the nerve to admit i can't do something all alone. But dammit!!! i did the work, and i've got a long way to; i will continue to do it!!! i need someone to lead me, not drag me and wipe my ass for me; and Ma'am wasn't looking for a child in a submissive; but a man. Ma'am is helping to guide me to be a better man, but i learned to be a man on my own. Being submissive doesn't change that.

Macslittleimp -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 10:56:33 PM)
My feelings have always been that my job is to guide, to advise, and to help by being the listening ear or the comfort giver when it is needed. I can give a submissive all the tools in the world, but the work is up to them. It is not my responsibility, nor within my capabilities to "fix" what is always wrong. My job is to protect, whether that be from outside sources, or in some cases, the submissive themselves. Not to mention, all the progress in the world means very little if the submissive hasn't done the work to gain that progress. So, yes my pet, I am very proud of you and I'm here for every step of the way for your continued growth [:)]

darchChylde -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/11/2008 11:07:16 PM)
thank You, Ma'am. big dorky grin may i have permission to blush? edited to congratulate my Dominant on finally getting past being vanilla

ProlificNeeds -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/12/2008 3:52:43 AM)
Not sure if it's true of all, I'm sure some subs are lazy little gits. If they're anything like the female half, then some of them may simply be too afraid of giving the wrong answer, to even try.

MsCfromMelbourne -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/12/2008 4:22:09 AM)
MsSavra I notice that you are based in Germany and in the north (Hamburg). Could this male reaction be partly cultural? In my (limited) experience, Germans are quite easily humilated by, for example, pointing out their stupid blunders. Whereas an American or Aussie might laugh it off and try again, Germans take their mistakes quite personally. German men are engineers at heart and strive for perfection (which is endearing IMO, but my family is German so I am biased) Is it possible these men are so afraid of making another mistake, they stop guessing and start asking you to specify exactly what you want? Less chance of disappointing you again that way. Perhaps explain that you hate micro-managing others and you refuse to do it. You value a sub who can think ahead and solve problems by himself. And you value subs that can accept harsh criticism as a way to improve themselves, not fall in a helpless, stupid heap!! Of course there are always men who really don't want to understand - or try to understand - what to do. They are stupid or just not that interested in impressing you. I hope you meet better men soon. Good luck [:)]

MsWorthy -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/12/2008 6:21:13 AM)
The experience I have with the type of submissives who suit me (those who are naturally submissive in the way I prefer) is that they generally fall into one of three categories. 1. Passive submissive - these are people who do not hold very many strong opinions about very many things. They are content to let you decide what, when, how, and why. They do tend to have little to offer in the way of creativity, but are wonderfully obedient and can make great long term partners. 2. Stong Personality submissive - this type is usually much more creative and imaginitive. They think for themselves and are often quite skilled at introspection. They tend to be less interested in a 24/7 type relationship and rarely see themselves fitting into a TPE relationship. 3. A-type submissive - these are pople who are used to being in charge, and perhaps, what attracts them to submission is the desire to let go of that responsibility. They do not want to think, they do not want to make decisions, they do not want to figure out the why of anything. They want to be pleasing by simply obeying. There is overlap in these categories, of course, but it helps me to understand those I interact with if I can understand the underlying drive for submission. YMMV

rubberpet -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/12/2008 6:50:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne MsSavra I notice that you are based in Germany and in the north (Hamburg). Could this male reaction be partly cultural? In my (limited) experience, Germans are quite easily humilated by, for example, pointing out their stupid blunders. Whereas an American or Aussie might laugh it off and try again, Germans take their mistakes quite personally. German men are engineers at heart and strive for perfection (which is endearing IMO, but my family is German so I am biased) Is it possible these men are so afraid of making another mistake, they stop guessing and start asking you to specify exactly what you want? Less chance of disappointing you again that way. I tend to agree with your statement about Germans and their taking mistakes quite personally. I am half German and if I ever make a stupid blunder trying to accomplish a task that Mistress gave me, I take it very badly. I absolutely hate to think I ever disappointed Her. I go almost completely mute and Mistress usually has to calm me down and reassure me that I can and will do better. My American side then kicks in because I learn from my mistakes and attack the problem with ten times the vigor to ensure I don't make the same mistake twice. After all, a mistake is just a mistake, but failure is when you don't learn why you made that mistake.

MsSavra -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/13/2008 11:07:19 AM)
Actually, in this specific case which prompted the posting the sub in question was American, but I have come across similar behaviour in English and German subs. Best regards, S.

MsBearlee -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/20/2008 9:12:57 AM)
Mmmm, what a timely topic; thanks Savra! I’ve noticed the same thing…and wonder if those who behave that way are the same ones who only want what they want…when they want it. You know, those who are not at all submissive; just kinky. I should add, that needn’t be a bad thing…just different than what the likes of you and I are looking for; no? I’ve been chatting with one who seems pretty interesting and we have a good deal in common, but in the last note he sent, when I asked for a more chatty, informative response…he told me he finds most of life boring; lordy, what a way to live! Now, actually…I don’t think what he said is likely true, but it does make me wonder if he has what it takes to engage me in good conversation. Is he imaginative, after all? I had thought so, but comments like that make one wonder if he really just wants to sit back and be mistreated! <smile> I think it’s much like Aimto said and could be a manifestation of laziness. I like his sig line, too: ‘Pleasing you pleases me’. Perfect! I agree Savra, I am not interested in someone I can abuse, I am interested in a partner to play with; I love TPE and that underlying current that exists when two intelligent, consensual adults get into a BDSM relationship. And LadyP hit the nail on the head! I like a whole bunch of those bright, articulate submissives here…who have their feet on the ground and know what they want. Now, if I can just find one in my neck o’ the woods. MsB

SubmissiveAK -> RE: The hardest task of all (2/20/2008 11:06:27 AM)
Maybe the boy is afraid of disappointing you so he is scared of acting on his own? I have a good friend who is a Sir, and at times a play-partner as well. We hang out from time to time though he is a bit older than I, and we enjoy eachothers company. I am very opinionated and love to debate, but I still find it hard to, well contradict him directly. He is Sir, and while he doesnt own me or anything I have a lot of respect for him and generally wish to please him. We both listen to mountain stage, enjoy opera, talk politics... but a degree of my shyness is amplified just because I am a submissive and dont wish to upset him. I'm not sure if this makes sense, but anyways... Does he seem nervous arround you MsSavra? Perhaps if you worked with that element of him it will "unlock" the rest of him? Just my 2 cents anyways ^_^ ~submissiveAK~

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