RE: This is what you want...

RE: This is what you want... (Full Version)

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MissMorrigan -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 7:20:04 AM)
We have police forces to uphold and enforce our laws, and not use their badges as justification to behave outside those laws. Those that do, should suffer the full consequences and receive harsher sentencing. As for how to prevent this kind of behaviour, I don't feel that it's possible to entirely eradicate it. It seems, from what I gather, that different states will have different procedures. Why is this allowed to happen, why aren't procedures the same in ALL states, Kitten? When difference forces are allowed to alter their procedures, it seems there's more room for error, perhaps?

lilabbotsfordgrl -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 7:21:21 AM)
Personal freedom has gone out the window. Most people don't know it because it has happened slowly over the past 100 years or so, but the Constitution is no longer adhered to and it looks like we're going to have another 4 years of a terror-inducing government if McCain, Clinton, or Obama take office. I'm glad I left for Canada last year, but that won't save me forever... the US is going to take down as many allies as they can, when they collapse. :( This video is just one tiny sample of what happens when power shifts from the people to the government they set up to supposedly aid them.

kittinSol -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 7:26:40 AM)
I agree with you that as each state has its own police force it leaves a wide margin for 'error'. If police was regulated centrally as it is in the United Kingdom, with a specially appointed Commissioner, such 'errors' would be rapidly addressed and wouldn't linger in the dustbin for nigh on fifteen months (which is when this woman's assault took place). Let's not mince words here though, she was a victim of assault, and I hope she is able to sue on this basis. PS: I don't mean to imply the British police are better; but they're certainly under a lot more scrutiny.

MissMorrigan -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 7:32:49 AM)
I find it odd that each state would have independent forces, which basically means they aren't really accountable to anyone. It seems the Sheriff is the law, which is perhaps why the Sheriff, in this particular case, seems so arrogant and fully supportive of his officers' actions insofar as believing that they behaved properly towards the woman. Am I just being naive here regarding this?

slaveluci -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 7:36:09 AM)
Truly disgusting but probably not all that rare at all, sadly enough. The saddest part, though, is that these "officers of the law" will probably get away with it scot-free. The jury (if it comes to that) will be told not to believe their lyin' eyes, but trust in the officers' words that they were just doing their job. Is that goose-stepping I hear? As sad as what happened to this lady is, it probably got on the news mainly because she's a 120 lb. blonde Caucasian female. (Not that I don't personally adore them myself[;)]). Just sayin' - How many black, hispanic and even white males are treated like this in jails and detention centers all across our country every day? They may not feel as violated due to their nudity as this lady did, but the violation is all the same. Damn - if this is being "helped" and "protected," I'd rather take my chances without 'em. There are very limited circumstances in which I would ever call for law enforcement. Basically, once their testosterone gets pumpin', someone's going to jail and someone's going to pay - whether they're the aggressor or the victim. The worst part of this video, in my opinion, was not the males present. It was the female officers who were basically holding her down and stripping her in front of the men. If they didn't have on their ugly little uniforms, wouldn't that get them charged with "accessory to rape" or something? Holding down a screaming, innocent woman and stripping her in front of men? [:'(] Hopefully, it'll go to court and there will be a jury consisting of more than just your usual idiots and they'll teach a much-needed lesson. I won't hold my breath though...............luci

scifi1133 -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 8:22:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan I find it odd that each state would have independent forces, which basically means they aren't really accountable to anyone. It seems the Sheriff is the law, which is perhaps why the Sheriff, in this particular case, seems so arrogant and fully supportive of his officers' actions insofar as believing that they behaved properly towards the woman. Am I just being naive here regarding this? It depends on where you live and which district your in. The sheriff is elected to his position and the deputies that work under him are there at his discretion. The sheriff can hire and fire as he sees fit. Just as each county and city can hire and fire the sheriff through elections. Police departments do not work under a sheriff. Nor in the case where there is a police department and a sheriffs department in the same city, do they work under the sheriff. In those cases where it is both a sheriffs office and a police department. The sheriffs office runs the jail and the court rooms and the [police department does everything else. If you do not like your sheriff or you disagree with the way he runs things. Get rid of him, and put in someone who will do the job you pay him to do. When a new sheriff is elected in most of the "bad apples" tend to go with him or are gotten rid of fairly quickly under the new sheriff. There is a fair amount of this video removed and you only have one side of the story as far as the rest is concerned so I will reserve comment on this case. But as I have said before. There are a tremendous amount of officers on the street doing their jobs without incident and that are there to protect and serve just as our creed says. I know its the bad apples that get all the media, but please remember all cops are not bad. Just as all citizens are not criminals. I do agree that when an officer betrays that trust and is caught doing something out of line he/she should be held to a higher standard. Just remeber that the more the terms "police state" and "fascist" and so on are through around, and the less cooperative the citizens become. It just makes it that much harder for a good cop to do his job. Thanks for reading. Oh and I forgot. Police departments are in fact held accountable. There was a case In this state where a department was found to be corrupt and the state police took them over for awhile till those officers were removed and new ones came in to replace them. Dont think that there is no one watching what is going on because there is. As for a federal police agancy we have one. Its called the F.B.I.

Alumbrado -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 8:31:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan I find it odd that each state would have independent forces, which basically means they aren't really accountable to anyone. It seems the Sheriff is the law, which is perhaps why the Sheriff, in this particular case, seems so arrogant and fully supportive of his officers' actions insofar as believing that they behaved properly towards the woman. Am I just being naive here regarding this? In many places the Sheriff is an elected position, accountable to no one but the voters, and federal authorities...much like the Governor. As far as only having one national law enforcement agency, there are a lot of reasons why that is considered a bad idea... not the least of which would be the possibility of abuse as a gestapo by the president.

MissMorrigan -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 8:35:16 AM)
Sci, thank you for clearing that up for me. I agree that there is a lot missing from the clips that have been released and the lawyers, acting on behalf of the woman and her husband in this case, are calling for the missing footage to come to light, and if that's not possible, why is it unaccounted. As you have said, this is but one case, it appears shocking and raises many questions for both parties. I, for one, do not believe that there are more rotten apples than good in our respective forces, Sci. I would just like to see procedures more 'open' to scrutiny in order to protect not only those in their care, but the officers, too.

scifi1133 -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 8:38:25 AM)
All use of force procedures are open to public scrutiny. All you need to do is call your local pd or sd and ask for there use of force policy and they will fax it to you. Almost every detainy and or arrest is videotaped these days for both the officers and the detainees protection. The cameras are everywhere....and I have to say its done alot more to help the officers cases than the other way around.

celticlord2112 -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 8:42:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan I saw this some days ago and watched the video clips - part one and two. Some of the video surveillance is 'missing' and clearly two male officers are not only present when the woman was having her clothes removed, but physically 'hands on' in the procedure. I certainly don't condone the actions of the police officers, I would like to be able to view the missing surveillance tape/s which recorded what took place prior to this woman 'being lifted off her feet and slammed to the ground'. There is no doubt that the male officers behaved improperly, and it raises a lot of questions regarding procedure, but also what else took place that we, the viewer of those clips, aren't privy to. Not for a moment am I suggestion that she, or any one else, should have their basic human rights abused. I would like to know what occured from the moment the patrol car pulled up, why the camera wasn't running at that particular time, what occurred from the moment the woman laid her had against the officer and later on, from the moment she was taken into the station. What is most disturbing about the video is the apparent calm of the offending officers. The woman is screaming in sheer terror, and they do not so much as flinch. In their minds...the brutal and humiliating treatment was ordinary. So says their body language. Moral of the story: The police are dangerous and should never be trusted.

kittinSol -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 8:47:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado As far as only having one national law enforcement agency, there are a lot of reasons why that is considered a bad idea... not the least of which would be the possibility of abuse as a gestapo by the president. Which begs the question, then: what can the government do to regain the trust and respect of the people (subject for another thread, obviously)? And wouldn't it be a good start to regulate the actions of the police more stringently - a unified police force would certainly erase a lot of potential abuse by 'little Hitlers'. When I think of it, American movies are full of depictions of abusive local sheriffs and police force. Luci made a very good point that this case has probably come to light because of the white, blonde, female nature of the victim (not that it prevented her from suffering at the hands of her abusers).

scifi1133 -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 8:48:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan I saw this some days ago and watched the video clips - part one and two. Some of the video surveillance is 'missing' and clearly two male officers are not only present when the woman was having her clothes removed, but physically 'hands on' in the procedure. I certainly don't condone the actions of the police officers, I would like to be able to view the missing surveillance tape/s which recorded what took place prior to this woman 'being lifted off her feet and slammed to the ground'. There is no doubt that the male officers behaved improperly, and it raises a lot of questions regarding procedure, but also what else took place that we, the viewer of those clips, aren't privy to. Not for a moment am I suggestion that she, or any one else, should have their basic human rights abused. I would like to know what occured from the moment the patrol car pulled up, why the camera wasn't running at that particular time, what occurred from the moment the woman laid her had against the officer and later on, from the moment she was taken into the station. What is most disturbing about the video is the apparent calm of the offending officers. The woman is screaming in sheer terror, and they do not so much as flinch. In their minds...the brutal and humiliating treatment was ordinary. So says their body language. Moral of the story: The police are dangerous and should never be trusted. Just a couple of things. Do you realize how many times I get screamed at in one night? Do you have any idea that almost every single time I throw cuffs on a person that they scream in pain saying they are to tight. Oh and I better stay calm even when someone is screaming because my life or YOURS may depend on it. If I am not to be trusted dont call.

MissMorrigan -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 8:49:13 AM)
Yes, I understand that, Scifi. Kittensol made a point earlier about being afraid of the police. I grew up in London and that fear is seemingly only experienced in certain areas. I, personally, have never been afraid of police officers, they've always been polite and respectful but given the poor media coverage, I can understand why some people have developed a fear. What do you personally think can be done to try and make police officers more approachable?

kittinSol -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 8:51:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: scifi1133 Do you have any idea that almost every single time I throw cuffs on a person that they scream in pain saying they are to tight. Oh and I better stay calm even when someone is screaming because my life or YOURS may depend on it. If I am not to be trusted dont call. I know there are worthy police officers everywhere, scifi; but you will understand the unease of the general public in the face of such blatant abuse of power by police officers. Calling for a review isn't denying the efforts of the police in general. It's ensuring the system works in the interests of all concerned. And surely... in the interest of the police, at the end of the day.

scifi1133 -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 8:52:55 AM)
Sure talk to the ones in your neighborhood. Get to know them a little. Most of us run the same beat over and over so its not hard. Just say hi. Your going to find out they are mostly just ordinary people doing a job they love to do.

scifi1133 -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 8:55:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: scifi1133 Do you have any idea that almost every single time I throw cuffs on a person that they scream in pain saying they are to tight. Oh and I better stay calm even when someone is screaming because my life or YOURS may depend on it. If I am not to be trusted dont call. I know there are worthy police officers everywhere, scifi; but you will understand the unease of the general public in the face of such blatant abuse of power by police officers. Calling for a review isn't denying the efforts of the police in general. It's ensuring the system works in the interests of all concerned. And surely... in the interests of the police, at the end of the day. I have no problems with review boards nor do I think the public should not be involved in them. I think everyone should be able to use the system to make sure things work the way they are supposed to. And as in the case of the sheriffs.....boot them out of office if you think they arent doing what they are supposed to do. By all means please take an active roll in working with your local departments to make things better for you and for us.

Alumbrado -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 8:57:51 AM)
Oh, now that's just crazy talk...[:D]

celticlord2112 -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 9:00:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: scifi1133 quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan I saw this some days ago and watched the video clips - part one and two. Some of the video surveillance is 'missing' and clearly two male officers are not only present when the woman was having her clothes removed, but physically 'hands on' in the procedure. I certainly don't condone the actions of the police officers, I would like to be able to view the missing surveillance tape/s which recorded what took place prior to this woman 'being lifted off her feet and slammed to the ground'. There is no doubt that the male officers behaved improperly, and it raises a lot of questions regarding procedure, but also what else took place that we, the viewer of those clips, aren't privy to. Not for a moment am I suggestion that she, or any one else, should have their basic human rights abused. I would like to know what occured from the moment the patrol car pulled up, why the camera wasn't running at that particular time, what occurred from the moment the woman laid her had against the officer and later on, from the moment she was taken into the station. What is most disturbing about the video is the apparent calm of the offending officers. The woman is screaming in sheer terror, and they do not so much as flinch. In their minds...the brutal and humiliating treatment was ordinary. So says their body language. Moral of the story: The police are dangerous and should never be trusted. Just a couple of things. Do you realize how many times I get screamed at in one night? Do you have any idea that almost every single time I throw cuffs on a person that they scream in pain saying they are to tight. Oh and I better stay calm even when someone is screaming because my life or YOURS may depend on it. If I am not to be trusted dont call. I won't.

MissMorrigan -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 9:02:15 AM)
CelticLord, their calmness suggests that it is a procedure that's as familiar as it is well-practised. That, in itself, does not imply a blase attitude, or callousness in action. The clips do seem brutal, but how many times have clips been doctored, omitting invaluable information, that would suggest that not everything we have seen is what the woman, her husband and their lawyer claim is an abuse. I do, and can agree, that the male officers should not have been aiding with the removal of the woman's clothes. But what information are we missing, and from what I have seen, there seems to be an awful lot.

scifi1133 -> RE: This is what you want... (2/12/2008 9:03:21 AM)
Lol. I know it sounds crazy but it does work . Trust me alot of officers are alot more sick of seeing this crap put out there than you guys are. Change in this case comes from the comunity and the officers working together to make things better for everyone. Ive seen it happen and Ive seen it work. Nothings going to change until its made to change. There are alot of officers out there that want to see a change jsut as badly as you guys do. I for one would love to be able to walk up on a scene, and not have people scared to tell me what happened. When the community and the police force work together change does happen, and its always for the better. And no by department procedures(at least our department) no male officer should have been in that room unless there were no more female officers available, and it was deemed an absolute emergency.

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