RE: being strong ... holding it together

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kyraofMists -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/12/2008 11:38:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness We have known eachther since we were children, I know that even if I had used the exact words as suggested by Aqua, he would have felt guilted into staying, he already felt bad enough, I wasn't going to add to that. I dont think that is being a martyr, I think that is making a tough decision with an unpleasant but necessary result. In my relationship, I am not responsible for his feelings or choices that he makes as a result of my emotions. As long as I express myself in an appropriate manner then I can express the feelings that I have. It would be his choice to feel guilty as a result of what I express. Making a decision to withhold my emotions from him would be me retaining authority within my relationship. quote: I didn't post this to gain Subbie points to trade in at the shop, or win acclaim as a martyr. I wanted to give an example of difficulties we face when we devote ourselve to anothers happiness, the unpleasantness of what we sometimes need to do, its something that is in the air on the boards at the moment and I thought this would be a positive contribution. I thought your post was positive. However, I think it would be a mistake to think that submissives are the only ones who experience something like your op or the sentence I bolded. My Lord is devoted to mine and Alandra's happiness and he has to sometimes do unpleasant things or face difficulties in order to ensure that the needs of the relationship are met. This is an aspect of life and not just an aspect of submission. Knight's Kyra

littleone35 -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/12/2008 11:41:18 AM)
\softness you are stronger than i am. I would have said if they need you then go. If you have time though i would like to see you again before you leave. Does he live so far from you that this would be a problem? That is not making him feel guilty just saying i understand they are impt to you, but i would like to see you more without saying it like that. I do give you a lot of credit for letting him go. Matt's littleone

softness -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/12/2008 12:40:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littleone35 \softness you are stronger than i am. I would have said if they need you then go. If you have time though i would like to see you again before you leave. Does he live so far from you that this would be a problem? That is not making him feel guilty just saying i understand they are impt to you, but i would like to see you more without saying it like that. I do give you a lot of credit for letting him go. Matt's littleone He is stationed abroad, has been for many years. When he is in the UK on leave he has to help run the family farm, reorganise his disaster of a family, see friends and generally fit in a year of civie life into a couple of months. He is based 300 plus miles from me. I moved away from where we all grew up. It has taken loads of planning to get these couple of days where we can spend real time together without work or anything taking the time up. To fit in seeing Him now means catching the odd few hours here and there .. meeting overnight half way etc .. which we are both willing and able to do, but I want to give Him some undivided attention, and care, and give Him a break from carrying everything on his shoulders.. time with me is like a time out for Him, when He is here, He only needs to think about the two of us, and my demands on Him are small grins ... usually along the lines of .. be here .. dont bring dirty kitbag.

BlackPhx -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/12/2008 1:34:01 PM)
What you did was very hard, believe me I know. Taking Master to the airport this morning after only half a day together was hell, 1-2 years would have been well I don't want to think about it. thankfully it is only for 4 days this time, last trip (last week) was 7 days. You could have given him a little more however with only a few simple words. "You are wanted here, but, you are needed there." Perhaps it would have given him a choice, knowing more how you felt. He may have made a different decision but you closed that door. Ultimately, the Army does not send him home when his brother does not show up when expected. I suspect this is not the first time the lad has stayed out all night, and even more that "Master" has far less knowledge of where he might be than the one who called. Priorities and the military are strange things, when both parents are dead, if a soldier is the only one who can stand loco parentis, they either rotate them home, or release them from serivce. If they are a priority and he is all they have, hardship discharges can be had, even these days. Please, do not think that I am in anyway denigrating the sacrifice you made or the pain it has cost you. I am not. I am however playing Devil's Advocate. Many of us are very strong and capable women, Tops and Bottoms, Dominants and Submissives. Slaves and Submissives more than most people realize. Far too often we stand strong,, internalize things and shut stress and problems away from our Dominants. We want to ease the burden not add to it. Part of our job description. However when the Dominant is in contact with us on a regular basis or daily, they can see when this is happening and work to bring what is bothering us, out in the open or to alleviate the stress. They remind us that our burden is their burden and that together we can carry it. The Master you love does not have that opportunity the way things are going from what you have said. He can only go by what you tell him and may have been seeking more from you than a "family comes first". He may have needed and wanted to hear your heart instead of just acceptance. Don't take that away from either of you. You might miss the chance for more than you ever hoped possible. You might not, but you won't know until you do. poenkitten

DesFIP -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/12/2008 1:53:04 PM)
I don't mean to be hurtful but it seems as if your way of pleasing him is to lie to him. Could you not have just as easily hugged him tightly, kissed him with all your heart and told him the truth, that you hate to have him go, but you know he had to? Because sending him off smiling as though you don't care may have given him the message that you don't really care. And I know that isn't the truth. It also isn't your decision if he should be selfish and stay, for an hour or 24, or if he should immediately leave. You take away his own power, his options by deciding for him.

softness -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/12/2008 2:13:07 PM)
I dont think I made myself very clear, for which I apologise, I didn't appear happy to see Him go, He knew I was as disappointed and sorry that we couldn't stay together as He was. But I put a brave face on it, smiled for Him to show Him it was alright. What we have isn't a relationship as such, its simply the service I can give Him when He can get to me. I am not a priority in His life that he has to expend energy on other than when He is actually with me. Perhaps if I had confessed and told Him truthfully how I felt it would become something more, but I am not a very daring person, and certainly not daring enough to risk losing what little of Him I have because I selfishly wanted more.

kallisto -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/12/2008 2:16:55 PM)
I would have told him the truth. That I was so looking forward to spending time with him and yes, I wanted and needed him to stay, but I understood that he other obligations. I would have then asked him to please try and find some time for us before he went back on duty. I would have let him know that I needed him too.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/12/2008 2:28:38 PM)
Many people have the Martyr archetype. It's only when it's working in the shadow that it becomes a negative thing. While we're only given a small glimpse into what's going on, I don't see any evidence that you're working in the shadow. Just be sure that you remain in the relationship because it's fulfilling for you. I'd like to share this to give you an idea where I'm coming from. The only thing I don't like about this commentary is that it doesn't talk more about the positive sides of Martyrdom: the truly selfless act. From Myss.com: "Martyr The Martyr archetype is well known in two arenas: as a classic political or religious figure, and in the self-help world of contemporary psychology. Within the self-help field, the shadow Martyr is viewed as a person who has learned to utilize a combination of service and suffering for others as the primary means of controlling and manipulating her environment. Ironically, in the social and political world, the martyr is often highly respected for having the courage to represent a cause, even if it requires dying for that cause for the sake of others. Suffering so that others might be redeemed, whether that redemption take a spiritual or political form, is among the most sacred of human acts. While people recognize this archetype in others, particularly when they are directly influenced by the individual sporting this pattern, they often cannot see it in themselves. Films: Paul Scofield in A Man for All Seasons; Meryl Streep in Silkwood; Denzel Washington in Malcolm X; Ben Kingsley in Gandhi. Drama: Saint Joan by G.B. Shaw. Fiction: A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens. Religion/Myth: Many Christian saints, including the Apostles; Mansur al-Hallaj (10th-century Sufi mystic martyred for his belief that God existed within him)." Master Fire

CreativeDominant -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/13/2008 7:51:51 AM)
I really think the story you told is a beautiful one, softness. I can see good points and bad points in what you did and, as always, an intelligently written post has set my own mind to wondering about certain things. You gave of yourself unselfishly. You did not pull a passive-aggressive maneuver in order to bring on his guilt. You enjoyed what you had together and did not concentrate on what you missed. You allowed enough of yourself to show through that he knew that he would be missed and that you were sorry that you could not have more time but also showed that you were mature enough to deal with what he decided. Those are all good things...as someone noted, part of being involved in a mature relationship but I also agree that it is a nice part of submission AND dominance; the giving over to the dynamic rather than to the self. However...and in D/s, just like in every other aspects, there is always a however...you did hide your complete feelings and did not express them. I can see kyra's point of that being a type of authority-retention but there again, you did not note that he asked you how you really felt. If he did and you held back, then you were doing a form of authority-retention. As someone else noted, sometimes even us domly types want to know that we are missed and wanted when we leave and that sometimes, the other person just wants us to stay...selfish or not. Things that left me wondering and here is where I come in with my own perspective...I have to wonder, does this relationship keep you from being involved with another? You note that you have had casual and serious relationships with this one...seemingly...always there. Have there been instances where another dominant could have become more serious about you...or you about him...if this one had not been so significant in your life? Can you ever love another deeply as long as you love this person so deeply? Can you ever give yourself fully to another while you give yourself to this one when he comes calling? Many dominants, when stepping into a relationship with a submissive, don't want to compete with another dominant for the submissive's time and attention and thoughts. I don't need answers to these...they are just questions that came to mind while reading your post.

fairerthanshe -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/13/2008 8:48:47 AM)
Greetings softness, This is beautiful and touching; a night of poignant dreams partially fulfilled. You are an amazing woman with so much strength. Thank you for sharing this ~ fairer

Stephann -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/13/2008 9:01:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness How is telling him that you would prefer him to stay using guilt? Guilt would be going "But you are never here and I never get to see you and you always put them first and I just want to feel special to you!" and then crying like a kicked puppy. You can be honest and not guilt him. "Well, I would prefer that you stay but I understand why you have to leave. What would you like me to make you for your trip?" My personal experience is that sometimes men - even dominant masterly men - want to be told that we want them around. I 200% agree with this...there is a HUGE difference between being a strong sub.....and being the martyr We have known eachther since we were children, I know that even if I had used the exact words as suggested by Aqua, he would have felt guilted into staying, he already felt bad enough, I wasn't going to add to that. I dont think that is being a martyr, I think that is making a tough decision with an unpleasant but necessary result. I didn't post this to gain Subbie points to trade in at the shop, or win acclaim as a martyr. I wanted to give an example of difficulties we face when we devote ourselve to anothers happiness, the unpleasantness of what we sometimes need to do, its something that is in the air on the boards at the moment and I thought this would be a positive contribution. soft, I think you did the very best thing that could have been done, in an impossibly painful situation. I've other thoughts, but they're not pertinant to the topic. There's a kernal of truth on both sides of this debate. I expect my slave to tell me about issues she's facing. I also expect her to accept my final decisions with grace and beauty. The balance between the two is incredibly difficult to strike. Because my slave is wired as she is, I have to practically force her to admit when things are hurting or bothering her. Even the small boo boos and frustrations need to be on the table, because if I let her, she'll actively work to hide how she really feels from both of us. This is incredibly dangerous and unhealthy. I don't want my car hiding the fact that it needs an oil change, because it's afraid I'm too busy with work or don't have enough money. But I do own the car, and your fella doesn't (like it or not) own you. This is the heartbreaking crux of this situation. A rarity, I completely lack words to describe how I feel for you in this situation. It's very close to home, and worthy of a bottle of Johnny Walker and some soulful music. My warmest regards, Stephan

charlotte12 -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/13/2008 9:18:19 AM)
softness, your post is beautifully written and has gotten this girl thinking a lot. This slave has sat here trying to form a response and simply cannot right now. There is a lot in this one thread to think about; humility, being not seeming, how to be honest and pleasing without sacrificing either. This slave apologizes that she cannot form her thoughts well this morning. Thank you for thread and morning thoughts to chew on. charlotte ps. you have cmail [;)]

AquaticSub -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/13/2008 9:39:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: softness We have known eachther since we were children, I know that even if I had used the exact words as suggested by Aqua, he would have felt guilted into staying, he already felt bad enough, I wasn't going to add to that. I dont think that is being a martyr, I think that is making a tough decision with an unpleasant but necessary result. If that is all it takes to make him feel guilty than he already feels guilty about the situation and maybe it isn't the best one for either of you. I do understand LDR and the pain of leaving the other person but I honestly don't think there should be guilt involved. .02

Stephann -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/13/2008 9:57:47 AM)
Aquatic, I totally understand where you're coming from. That was my gut reaction to answer as well. Yet I also think that the situation, as we understand it, lends itself to a slightly more complicated set of feeligns and expectations. She's not expecting him to make a life with her, she's not cutting herself off from other potential partners or relationships, she's simply struggling to make sense of and find the beauty inherent in this situation. Should she become involved with another man, I'm pretty certain the military man in question would understand (and indeed expect!) her to devote herself to him. As things are though, she's single and shouldn't have any qualms about taking what enjoyment she can from someone who is obviously near and dear to her heart. We all make decisions about who to let into our hearts and lives. soft has willingly, knowingly decided to keep this man in hers, and seems to have no regrets in that decision. Thus second guessing 'how happy' she is with how things are seems incredibly counter productive. I say this only from the perspective that she should, obviously, take a moment when she feels she should to revisit the choice to continue with this type of relationship or not. If she has doubts, that's something she should explore. If not, then she needs to take the lumps along with the caresses. Regards, Stephan

AquaticSub -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/13/2008 10:03:05 AM)
I'm not suggesting that she isn't happy. I'm actually not really thinking about her, more thinking about him. If that's all it takes to make him guilty, honesty about her feelings, than my guess he is already feels guilty about the situation. Even if they both have many other happy, fulfilling relationships I don't think a relationship where either partner feels guilty is a good one, and I'd consider it quite possible that something needs to change so that nobody needs to feel guilty. Obviously, I don't have the details. But... shrug

Stephann -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/13/2008 10:18:53 AM)
Again, I get where you're coming from. From another side though: I've been in situations where there were things just not great about a relationship I was in. I felt guilty that I had too many (or not enough) responsibilities in other arenas. It wasn't my partner's fault, it was mine. It wasn't something she needed to resolve, it was my own issues. Communication couldn't resolve that sense of guilt, because the source had nothing to do with the relationship. Throw in the very (very very) limited opportunity to be together face to face, and I would have (and indeed, I have in the past) approached things from the same perspective. I could have said "no, your leaving really hurts me" and she would have had an 11 hour drive home six hours after she arrived feeling like crap. Instead, I pushed what I felt aside for the time being, put on a brave face, and sent her home with a smile and a sigh on her face. Later, at a more opportune time, I told her how I really felt on the phone. Meaning, there's a time and a place to let it all out. That's all I'm sayin. Stephan

AquaticSub -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/13/2008 10:36:23 AM)
I get that. But from another side, having been in several LDRs myself, I think there is a huge difference between saying "This really hurts me" and "Yes this hurts, but that's ok. Call me when you get home so I know you got home safely". Valyraen and I both knew that it hurt the other to watch us leave. There was no getting around that and no point in trying. But we never felt guilty because there was nothing to feel guilty over. We did the best we could to see each other and when we couldn't see each other, we called. Perhaps we are more uncomplicated when it comes to guilt, we never felt actually guilty about something else coming up and preventing us from seeing each the other. It sucked, and it hurt like a bitch and I would cry. But if neither did something to screw it up (I suspect the one time Val forgot to get his car fixed so he couldn't some see me he might have felt a little guilty), there just wasn't anything to feel guilty about. I'm not suggesting that they should break up. Just that if there is guilt on his side, maybe something can be worked out so that there doesn't have to be guilt involved. Or maybe not.

Stephann -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/13/2008 10:43:31 AM)
See, I think the guilt comes from an unspoken discussion related to "I've chosen to live here, you've chosen to live 300 miles away. You've chosen a military life, I've chosen to work a daily job here. You've chosen to put your immediate family ahead of our relationship. To be together, one of us needs to be willing to sacrifice the life we already have, and neither of us are willing to do that. Thus, we have to simply steal what hours and days we're able to steal, and carry on with our lives otherwise." It's crappy. It sucks donkey balls. She doesn't want to throw that in his face, and have that be the last thought he has walking out the door, knowing she probably won't see him for at least another year, if ever. It's not guilt about leaving; it's the guilt that leaving represents, that has nothing to do with what they share, everything to do with what they cannot share. Stephan

camille65 -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/13/2008 10:45:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Stephann See, I think the guilt comes from an unspoken discussion related to "I've chosen to live here, you've chosen to live 300 miles away. You've chosen a military life, I've chosen to work a daily job here. You've chosen to put your immediate family ahead of our relationship. To be together, one of us needs to be willing to sacrifice the life we already have, and neither of us are willing to do that. Thus, we have to simply steal what hours and days we're able to steal, and carry on with our lives otherwise." It's crappy. It sucks donkey balls. She doesn't want to throw that in his face, and have that be the last thought he has walking out the door, knowing she probably won't see him for at least another year, if ever. It's not guilt about leaving; it's the guilt that leaving represents, that has nothing to do with what they share, everything to do with what they cannot share. Stephan *That really resonated with me.*

softness -> RE: being strong ... holding it together (2/13/2008 10:48:53 AM)
Stephann, thankYou Sir, for expressing it exactly how it was, much better than I could have done. Aquatic, our is not a relationship were guilt is a common feature, I would now allow it. The guilt He felt at leaving me is not something that will live on, in speaking to Him today and yesterday the worst of it has already past, I can tell him calmly that i love and miss him and he calm tell me that he wishes he hadn't had to go. No drama, no hysteria, just calm openess. I firmly believe that has happened because of how I behaved for Him. It might not have been how you would do it, you might think I did it all wrong, but I know Him and I know me, and I know this was the right thing to do. The right thing is not always the nice thing. Creative and Kyra, I agree with you that in an Ms dynamic holding emotions back is holding myself back, something unacceptable. If i did belong to Him, then He would have all of me, emotions and all. To do differently would be to work against His authority of me, which would be wrong. But as He does not own me, beause i am not His I made the decision to withold the whole truth because it wasn't useful or helpful, I chose to put my wants beneath His needs, I made the decision for myself. If I was His property, the decision would not have been mine, I would not have made it. He and I are (bottom line) casual play partners, a Top and a bottom. I never call Him Sir and He never calls me slave, even in play. But we are also friends who haev known eachother since childhood, i baby sat for his littlebrother, he came to my sisters wedding. We know eachother through and through, and love eachother deeply. That love has nothing to do with how often I see him, or how much we play. It wont stop me having a serious relationship or die when I fall in love elsewhere. Perhaps, one day, what we have can be long term, perhaps not. It is what it is, and it makes me happy, sure it makes me sad too, but that all goes away when I see him ransacking my fridge the next time H is here.

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