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Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 7:20:47 AM

Lashra

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My sub and I had an interesting conversation about views on marriage. He said when he was growing up that his parents rarely spoke to him about getting married when he was older and grandchildren were never mentioned. But he always felt he wanted to settle down and get married someday.

My turn in the conversation came and I told him how my Mother always harped about getting married and having kids when I was of age. I tuned her out pretty much and I never had those little girl dreams of walking down the aisle in a long white gown. In fact my dreams were of a career and buying my own house someday. My Dad discouraged me from focusing on marriage and children. He instead tried to focus my attention on school and a career.

I never really felt I wanted to get married, but I did want to have a child someday. I gave marriage a try and I am now happily divorced

. I don't think I want to try marriage again though my sub really wants to someday.

My questions are this: When you were younger did you day dream about the perfect wedding? or like me did you daydream about a career and a home? Also do you think we push the idea of marriage and children a bit to much on our children, girls in particular?

~Lashra

< Message edited by Lashra -- 2/14/2008 7:21:26 AM >

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

Post #: 1

RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 7:38:10 AM

chezzy52

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With me it was more my family on the outside making suggestions.I am sure you have heard them all"you should find yourself a nice girl and settle down".Problem was hwere i grew up,most of them were nice...too nice as in not at all interested in BDSM.Now,to be fair,i didn't even know what BDSM was when i was a lot younger.All i knew then was i enjoyed being tied and gagged and there was no name for it except being tied and gagged.Things were much different for lifestylers back i the day..no internet and you really had to know someone on the inside or you were basically not welcome.The internet has helped in some BDSM relationships.For me personally,i would hope that if i gave to my Mistress tenfold and her love was returned in earnest,then perhaps a discussion should ensue about marriage.

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 2

RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 7:45:15 AM

Dnomyar

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I married at 20 and my wife was 16. I came from a big family and wanted 9 kids. Ended up with a boy and a girl.

(in reply to chezzy52)

Post #: 3

RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 7:48:21 AM

TermsConditions

Posts: 446
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I wanted to get married to take a swing at being part of a healthy family and 18 years later I think I've succeeded 80% + and rising. Long about 25 weird bio propogation thoughts started popping into my head and I knew I wanted a son; doing that in the context of a family seemed the responsible thing. By that time my parents had divorced and my brother and sister had 7 marriages between them with kids strewn all over so I had seen how it should not be done.

The only thing I have said to my son and daughter is "someday when you have children...blah blah blah" and "you should be married if you have children." And I have planted in their little brains that I think having grandchildren would be fun for me. Direct guidance on such things seems pretty unpredictable in my experience. You try to steer hard one way and that becomes the one direction they do not want to go.

(in reply to Lashra)

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RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 7:55:29 AM

thetammyjo

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I used to dress up and pretend I was getting married -- to different boys or media stars. Never got rid of the previous mock husbands in my little theaters, just kept adding in.

My parents used to talk about me having kids then I had to start seeing a gyn because of problems and discovered it is unlikely I'd be able to carry past the first trimester. So they stopped talking about it because they knew it would only hurt me -- one of the few things that showed my parents were capable of thinking beyond themselves I think. Plus they have 13 grandkids and something like 8 great grandkids now -- they've said they don't want any more.

I primarily got married for the legal protections. Yes, I do love Tom but frankly we had enough in common in terms of future goals and desires, plus interests and the desire to each be a fully functional person, that we knew we could make it work.

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(in reply to Lashra)

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RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 11:17:27 AM

SweetDommes

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If I get married, it will most likely be for the legal protections that it would give to both the boy and me. Same with Holly and rob. I used to want UMs, but I think it would be a Very Bad Idea for me to get preggers considering my history of depression associated with my cycle and hormonal changes. I'm content to be an aunt to my neice and a stand in aunt for Holly's nephew. I never wanted the big wedding with a flowing dress ... I always wanted to get married in jeanshorts and barefoot. In fact, the first day of my nursing clinicals, I called my mother and told her that if I ever do get married, it will NOT be in a white dress - me in head to toe white is incredibly unattractive.

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RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 11:20:02 AM

liks2plzlf

Posts: 390
Joined: 7/21/2005
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I was very young when I met a dominant, Italian, bitch from hell, and all I wanted was to marry her, and submit to anything she wanted forever. I have always told my children to do what makes them happy. I emphasized, especially for my daughters, to have a career or something to make them independent, and never have to depend on a man.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 7

RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 11:47:21 AM

AFlyInYourWeb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

Also do you think we push the idea of marriage and children a bit to much on our children, girls in particular?

I think we as individuals DO "push" the idea of marriage a bit too much, especially on girls.

However, even if "we" didn't, the pressures from church, media and peers are strong and pervasive.

To my mind, the biggest disservice is not pushing the idea of marriage, per se. The problem is that marriage is presented as a "destination", instead of the start of the incredibly long investment of time, energy and emotion that it really is.

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RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 11:58:41 AM

MistressTaboo

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I had a traditional marriage...it SO did not work...I could NOT be the nice little wife...two wonderful Um's later and a divorce...

I met Drat at work...by then I knew what I wanted and didn't want in a relationship...
Married 5yrs today...no end in site...and one more UM to the mix...

I knew I wanted to get married...I wanted a husband that supported me no matter what I chose to do...If I look back on it the men I was really attracted to were subs...I just didn't know it...

_____________________________

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(in reply to AFlyInYourWeb)

Post #: 9

RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 12:01:11 PM

Najakcharmer

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Joined: 5/3/2004
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Not really all that interested in marriage. Never have been. If it becomes a lot more convenient for some reason than not being married, I might get around to it. But mostly I don't see the point in my relationships being the government's business, or anyone else's business but my own. People change and grow, and I'm not sure it's realistic to make a lifetime single-partner committment to anyone, not knowing the person you may be in five or ten years, or where you will be in life. Untangling from a legal marriage is a pain in the ass, so I've preferred to avoid it altogether.

When I was a kid my dreams were of personal achievement and what I could do with my life as a grown-up, not of relationships. Relationships are very nice, but they are not (and probably should not be unless you're a basically a submissive) the ultimate goal in anybody's life. They are good to come home to when the day is done though.

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 10

RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 12:20:32 PM

Lashra

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Joined: 2/9/2006
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I think your right Tammyjo about the legal protections as marriage does offer those, those usually aren't mentioned to us as we are growing up. Though as an adult I know about them. I also think your comments about having common interests and goals is paramount for a relationship. I've often thought that a spouse should be a best friend or as close as one can come to that in order for it to work.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 11

RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 12:26:27 PM

Lashra

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AFlyInYourWeb

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

Also do you think we push the idea of marriage and children a bit to much on our children, girls in particular?

I think we as individuals DO "push" the idea of marriage a bit too much, especially on girls.

However, even if "we" didn't, the pressures from church, media and peers are strong and pervasive.

To my mind, the biggest disservice is not pushing the idea of marriage, per se. The problem is that marriage is presented as a "destination", instead of the start of the incredibly long investment of time, energy and emotion that it really is.

I think your last paragraph speaks volumes. I don't ever recall my Mother talking about marriage over the long haul. It was just about the beautiful wedding and then staying home waiting to have babies. It was as if life suddenly stopped once a couple was married. Perhaps in a way thats how she felt because even though she was the model for the 1950's style housewife she used to complain bitterly how she wished she could have led her life differently. Maybe that in itself is the reason that I never viewed marriage in a "I have to do this" light. I just didn't want to end up as miserable as my Mother. Thank you, you've given me food for thought.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to AFlyInYourWeb)

Post #: 12

RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 2:02:22 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

quote:

ORIGINAL: AFlyInYourWeb

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

Also do you think we push the idea of marriage and children a bit to much on our children, girls in particular?

I think we as individuals DO "push" the idea of marriage a bit too much, especially on girls.

However, even if "we" didn't, the pressures from church, media and peers are strong and pervasive.

To my mind, the biggest disservice is not pushing the idea of marriage, per se. The problem is that marriage is presented as a "destination", instead of the start of the incredibly long investment of time, energy and emotion that it really is.

I think your last paragraph speaks volumes. I don't ever recall my Mother talking about marriage over the long haul. It was just about the beautiful wedding and then staying home waiting to have babies. It was as if life suddenly stopped once a couple was married. Perhaps in a way thats how she felt because even though she was the model for the 1950's style housewife she used to complain bitterly how she wished she could have led her life differently. Maybe that in itself is the reason that I never viewed marriage in a "I have to do this" light. I just didn't want to end up as miserable as my Mother. Thank you, you've given me food for thought.

~Lashra

Beyond the stereotypes, that was the reality of many women in that time period. Recall it was also the decade when high levels of alcoholism and drug abuse began among middle class household at a level previously undocumented. When you compared the social expectations for women during WWII and the 1950s it's easy to see why that happened -- radical change in what was expected and accepted from women in public life coupled with serious emotional and mental trauma in a large part of the male population.

That ideal of 1950s household is a fantasy build on propaganda more than fact. Had women and men truly been happy that way, I don't think 1960s and 1970s feminism could have developed as it did.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 13

RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 2:18:57 PM

MsBearlee

Posts: 1032
Joined: 2/15/2006
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Hmmmmmmm… marriage; been there done that.

My parents were too interested in scaring me away from sex to talk to me about marriage. I was not happy at home, moved out at 18 and began supporting myself…as I have done ever sense. I got married to a wonderful man I met shortly there after, we were great pals…but we were both just too young, I think…though we remain friends for years and years after our marriage ended.

The older I get, the less inclined I am to want to get married by the state. Yes, I suppose there are some financial considerations…even medical ones…so I am not against actual marriage; it is just of little real importance to me. I would be fine, I think, living happily ever after with someone I loved and who adored me…in our kinky little nest there on the Dark Side.

Personally, I think too many people get married because they’re afraid of being lonely or perhaps they’re afraid of the dark! LOL I’d rather be alone with many friends than settle for someone who will just pay half the rent. Yanno?

MsB

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RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 2:26:48 PM

MsBearlee

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Waves to TammyJo...

Good ol' Betty Friedan, huh?

Back in the day...my parent's day...few women were educated or trained in anything that offered a way to support themselves, much less their children. Plus, it was frowned upon not to be married, I think. Perhaps the best thing to come outta WWII was Rosie the Riveter! Even though those women who discovered they could do good work afterall were booted out so 'men who needed to support a family' could have a job (an excuse I was actually given as a reason I was not promoted at Texaco not 15 years ago!), I believe enough of them had a taste of good solid employment and things started changing.

I could be wrong...it's been a long haul for women. It's interesting, I might add, that given our American History...that a black man may end up president before a woman does! An interesting thought to ponder...

MsB

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RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 2:44:29 PM

bleusparkles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

Waves to TammyJo...

Good ol' Betty Friedan, huh?

Back in the day...my parent's day...few women were educated or trained in anything that offered a way to support themselves, much less their children. Plus, it was frowned upon not to be married, I think. Perhaps the best thing to come outta WWII was Rosie the Riveter! Even though those women who discovered they could do good work afterall were booted out so 'men who needed to support a family' could have a job (an excuse I was actually given as a reason I was not promoted at Texaco not 15 years ago!), I believe enough of them had a taste of good solid employment and things started changing.

I could be wrong...it's been a long haul for women. It's interesting, I might add, that given our American History...that a black man may end up president before a woman does! An interesting thought to ponder...

MsB

I think if it were a different woman, it would be a more even race. Hillary's agenda gets in her way.

As for the OP ...

I was never encouraged to get married or have children. In fact, it was often hinted that perhaps I just didn't have any sort of mothering instinct or ability to nurture. This shocks me now, looking back, because I was always the kid who'd bring home any and every injured animal, adopt it and nurse it to health.

Now ... I want children but not necessarily the husband. I used to want the husband though ... I'm just undecided on that part right now. But I definitely want the children.

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RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 3:00:03 PM

aidan

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I have never really fantasized or thought that much about marriage. It'll pop up occasionally, maybe once or twice every few years, but it's rarely close to the forefront of the mind.

What I do think a lot about are kids. One of my favorite thought experiments is thinking about a son or daughter, raising them, teaching them, loving them. I've always wanted to be the father that I never got. But in those daydreams, there's rarely, if ever, a maternal figure. It's always me and the kid. I guess that comes from being the product of a single parent.

I wouldn't want to subject my children to that, though. I grew up without my dad, and I'll be goddamned if my future offspring go without a mother.

I'm not opposed to the idea of legal marriage. It does seem to make things easier monetarily and for child-rearing. The one thing I don't see is a "church wedding." Not my bag at all.

< Message edited by aidan -- 2/14/2008 3:01:33 PM >

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RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 3:05:26 PM

AFlyInYourWeb

Posts: 284
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I think your last paragraph speaks volumes. I don't ever recall my Mother talking about marriage over the long haul. It was just about the beautiful wedding and then staying home waiting to have babies. It was as if life suddenly stopped once a couple was married. Perhaps in a way thats how she felt because even though she was the model for the 1950's style housewife she used to complain bitterly how she wished she could have led her life differently. Maybe that in itself is the reason that I never viewed marriage in a "I have to do this" light. I just didn't want to end up as miserable as my Mother. Thank you, you've given me food for thought.

Thank you for the compliment.

Your marriage does not have to be like your mom's marriage, your former marriage, my former marriage, or any marriage that ever was.

Just as two consenting adults can negotiate a D/s relationship which is shaped to their needs as a couple, that same couple ought to be able to negotiate a marriage that is molded to their standards.

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Post #: 18

RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 3:25:06 PM

AFlyInYourWeb

Posts: 284
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsBearlee

Personally, I think too many people get married because they’re afraid of being lonely or perhaps they’re afraid of the dark!

Which is why, ever since my divorce, I've kept a spare nightlight on premises

On a more serious note, I think fear of loneliness is a factor, in addition to the social pressure Lashra originally brought up. Some people do not know how to live alone without being lonely, and enter all sorts of relationships- not just marriage - out of fear of loneliness.

Fear is usually a bad basis for any decision.

Fear of loneliness can also lead one to grab at any relationship, no matter how improbable or unsuitable, just to "be" with someone...anyone. This is the nightmare scenario, because relationships born of desperation usually end in desperate straits.

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RE: Views on Marriage - 2/14/2008 4:01:23 PM

MsIncontrol

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After being with and living with my submissive for 7 years we finally got legally married (almost two years ago). We did it mostly for legal reasons, financial reasons and better health benefits. What we didn't expect is the deeper level of committment we feel, the deeper love and and unexplicable closeness that I never even knew was possible. Everything in our relationship deepend...and it has been wonderful and beautiful.

Our relationship began with a D/s basis and our entire marriage has been negotiated. We have never had a fight. NOT ONE. Not because we always agree, it is because we have learned over the years to respect one another, trust one another and believe in one another. I believe this comes from our deeper emotional attachement from the D/s. We define what our marriage is, not some ideals from the past or our families. While both of our parents had long marriages and never divorced we don't feel they had the level of love or satisfaction from their marriages as we do.

As a child I dreamed of the big fancy church wedding, the dancing, the gifts etc. A wedding with 1000 guest (my parents had 1000 people at their wedding), a band, a dj, a cake bigger than a table. I ended up getting married on top of a mountain on a beautiful day with four good friends as witness. It couldn't have been a more perfect day.

I think too many people plan for the wedding..the wedding day and the honeymoon vacation and forget to plan for the marriage and relationship.

While I know to disentangle our affairs will be more work should our marriage end at some point...the comfort of the legal protection was worth it to us.

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(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 20

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