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RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 11:51:15 AM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
Status: offline 		nineveh, i would suppose that's, as i said, not really all that different from why it can be very disempowering for women - because society makes it that way. if you do not fit a particular mold of "victim," you are not validated - and on top of the way the act itself disempowers people by taking away the right to consent, society disempowers people who seek recourse and treatment by saying, "you are not a victim, you were not raped."

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a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to Nineveh)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 12:01:05 PM   
ottRopesandKnots


Posts: 105
Joined: 9/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
IMO We are not far removed from beasts who would take what they want and kill anyone in their way.
Pretty obvious when you look at what humans do NO?


You're quite right.  That's why we take those people and lock them up. 

If you can't make the leap from beast to civilized person we'll keep you in a cage, good and simple.  I'm sorry, your primal ugre took over?  We'll put you over here in this zoo where we keep the other humans who are too wild.

Sorry, but if someone's natural instincts control them to a point where they can't control their sexual urges that *is* someone we need to lock away.

When I look around at what humans do I think for the most part, the vast majority of us are quite capable of being civilized.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 12:02:54 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, yanno------it sure isn't what it used to be, and at its culmination, I wouldn't wanna be the only one out of breath in the entire imbriglio, as he seems to be. 

Ron

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to ottRopesandKnots)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 12:04:02 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I am fortunate that I was never raped, so I cannot presume to speak on behalf of anybody. I can imagine, however, that any victim of rape, male or female, is made to feel 'disempowered' by the very nature of the crime. The difference is that it has become acceptable for women to speak of their plight (after years of taboo); we are yet to accept as a society that men, too, can be powerless victims of brutal sexual violence.

But the day will come, I think

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(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 12:21:37 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Nobody in their right mind would advocate that the stronger should be allowed to force the weaker to do anything, let alone have sex.
I'm speaking here of  a general civic/legal principle.
The fact remains IMO that this issue is not simple and women can behave sexually, whether unwittingly or not, in a way that unleashes some very primitive drives that may not be able to be contained..

A mature legal system will recognise that fact IMO.


It has.. that is why women in the middle east go around dressed in Burkas, and veils.. because the men can not be trusted by the inherant sexual nature of women to not throw them down in the street and rape them.

Do you mean something like that?

While we are at it.. why dont we just take away the right to vote, and drive.. women with thier tempting sexual ways.. that men should not be responsible for in *any way* of keeping *themselves* in check.. they do not need those rights.. it will just make them mobile and uppity.. make them think they are equal and in some cases better.. then they can really push all that sexyness onto the poor unsuspecting males.

I am not picking on you here.. but I have heard this arguement before...

Personaly I do not care if a woman walks into a bar dressed in a miniskirt and heels.. it doesnt mean some one has the right to jump her when she leaves the bar and rape her in the parking lot.

I dont care if you are on your 3rd date.. and kissing and touching and she says it isnt time yet.. she changed her mind.. you be a gentleman.. and take a no for a no. Is a piece of pussy so damn important that it has to be taken by force illegaly? If so then there is something seriously wrong with that person.

Most rapes go unreported to the authorities.. Why? because of shame, the feeling it is somehow her fault for not protecting herself well enough. Usualy it is done by someone they know. Rape is not always violent... and does not always leave marks. I have worked in a womens abuse shealther. Also as a Crisis Councilor. Rape is still treated very badly in the public and women are further victimized in the legal system by scum bag lawyers who bring every last detail of thier personal lives into question instead of the facts of the case. This is a huge reason why so many go unreported. Plus our Govt. has been notoriously soft on Rape as a violent crime with very little time served, and easy charges to get off.

http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~ad361896/anne/cease/rapestatisticspage.html

http://ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/rape.htm
( rape does not include sexual assault on this chart~ I doubt the "new" kinds of rape are included)

I think with the way lawyers have gone publicaly after the victims fewer reports are being made.

You do have some people that claim they were raped.. and were not. These people are the worst sort I can think of. It is such a serious charge, and to claim something like that falsely does so much harm, not only to to them, but the accused, and thier communites. It also wastes police resources, when they could be looking for someone who really did a crime.

In any case Rape is always a terrible crime. One that lasts for the life of the victim. You can never make restituion.. you can never give them back what was taken. It should be treated much more seriously in our court system.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 12:41:27 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
Nobody in their right mind would advocate that the stronger should be allowed to force the weaker to do anything, let alone have sex.
I'm speaking here of  a general civic/legal principle..
......that is why women in the middle east go around dressed in Burkas, and veils.. because the men can not be trusted by the inherant sexual nature of women to not throw them down in the street and rape them.
Do you mean something like that?
No 'fraid not.
.
quote:

Personaly I do not care if a woman walks into a bar dressed in a miniskirt and heels.. it doesnt mean some one has the right to jump her when she leaves the bar and rape her in the parking lot.

I agree. The fact is the overwhelming number of rapes do not occur as a consequence of situations like this.
I think you haven't grasped the point I am trying to make.

adding: I've just viewed the video again and I think the Senator is discussing Abortion.. 
.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 2/15/2008 12:48:31 PM >

(in reply to Gwynvyd)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 1:05:33 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		In which case what the Senator said is factually correct.
quote:


The English common law and traditional U.S. and Canadian law did not recognize rape within a marriage as a crime

 
I feel certain that all of those who unfairly maligned the great senator will send him an apology forthwith.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 1:14:32 PM   
GrizzlyBear


Posts: 278
Joined: 3/26/2004
From: Missoula Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave



adding: I've just viewed the video again and I think the Senator is discussing Abortion.. 
.


That is obvious to me - the floor debate is about an anti-abortion law with exceptions for rape, or to protect the life of  the mother, and he is arguing that crying "Rape!" after the fact could be used as an excuse to get an abortion, when in fact there was no rape.
He just has a very good-ol-boy way of expressing it.

Considering tht this is in Tennessee, and his views on the subject are probably representative of his district, he probably will get re-elected.

Quite a few conservative states seem to be passing these laws with clauses contingent on the overturning of Roe v. Wade by the Supreme Court.


_____________________________

GrizzlyBear

"Come to the edge," he said.
They said, "We are afraid."
"Come to the edge," he said.
They came. He pushed them. And they flew.
~Guillaume Apollinaire

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 1:25:08 PM   
Gwynvyd


Posts: 4949
Status: offline 		That is how the Christian Colalition has planned on overtuning Roe V Wade... in small chunks untill nothing is left. Also with the addition of the new Justices who are solidly against Roe V Wade... it is quite possible they will get it done.

They want to drag us kicking and screaming into the 1940's if not earlier...

Very few people are noticing it.

Gwyn

_____________________________

Self avowed Geek-Girl~
Come for the boobs, stay for the brains.

Be the kinda woman that when your feet hit the floor in the morning the Devil says "Oh shit, shes awake..."
~ Softandshy's "Shiney"

(in reply to GrizzlyBear)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 1:39:06 PM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Seeks, I generally agree with a considerable amount of what you say (that I have read) on the boards. You are way off base with the comment you made below. At ANY time a person can opt out and I cannot for the life of me fathom how a person could suggest that simply b/c a woman was enjoying the foreplay but declined penetrative sex at the last minute then she deserved to have it forced upon her. While that might be a hot fantasy for some people, reality is something entirely different.
Her: "I'm scared, it's my first time. I'm not sure I want to go through with this or I'm ready.'
Him: "It doesn't matter that you're ready, I'm ready.
Her: "Stop it, you're hurting me. I don't want to do this"
Him: "Shut up, stupid bitch, you're here, you wanted this."

Does the man, before a judge, have legal validation should he claim, "Sorry, Guv, whoremoans got the better of me?"

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
I believe there is some truth in what the "short of breath" man is trying to say.

If a women allows herself to engage in intimate acts , reciprocates and then at the last minute changes her mind she's the author of her own misfortune. IMO
Its called flying in the face of nature and should be a defence IMO.

Also many women make accusations of rape 2 or 3 months after the incident. or immediately after the incident without a mark on them. is that suspicious or not ?t.

In the UK some appear to believe that if a woman claims rape then thats it, she  was raped. Do you believe that is always true. I dont.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 1:48:21 PM   
MissMorrigan


Posts: 2309
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		And often are, KS. In the 90s a huge campaign was launched to make reporting a more 'gentler'/less traumatic procedure for rape victims - women. Of the few statistics there are regarding male rape, it is claimed to be just the tip of the iceberg.
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
I am fortunate that I was never raped, so I cannot presume to speak on behalf of anybody. I can imagine, however, that any victim of rape, male or female, is made to feel 'disempowered' by the very nature of the crime. The difference is that it has become acceptable for women to speak of their plight (after years of taboo); we are yet to accept as a society that men, too, can be powerless victims of brutal sexual violence.

But the day will come, I think

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 1:48:39 PM   
ottRopesandKnots


Posts: 105
Joined: 9/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd
That is how the Christian Colalition has planned on overtuning Roe V Wade... in small chunks untill nothing is left. Also with the addition of the new Justices who are solidly against Roe V Wade... it is quite possible they will get it done.

They want to drag us kicking and screaming into the 1940's if not earlier...


I'm not certain I agree that reversing Roe Vs Wade throws us back into the 1940's.  There has been a hell of a lot of change for women's rights, abortion is only a small part of that.  Abortion itself is a bigger issue than just the women's rights aspects.  I believe you can be against abortion, and still be for equal rights for men and women.

I'm pro-choice myself, but far closer to the middle of the debate than I was even a few years ago.

(in reply to Gwynvyd)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 2:40:51 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

The thing about being grown ups, is that we are supposed to be better at containing 'primitive' drives. One could argue that is the very definition of adult.



What is curious is that a person who claims to be a Dominant or Master would insist that he is under the control and direction of his primitive drives.

In my mind, such an individual might want to rethink who is the Master in his relationship with his genitalia.

Go figure.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 3:26:22 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

MissMorrigan
At ANY time a person can opt out and I cannot for the life of me fathom how a person could suggest that simply b/c a woman was enjoying the foreplay but declined penetrative sex at the last minute then she deserved to have it forced upon her.

First MsM I have never said that a woman deserved to be the victim of forced sexual activity.
What I do say, and I repeat, is that women are playing with fire if they  think that being provocative in the extreme and then attempting to be coy, if you will, and refuse to consummate the overpowering feelings that not 30 seconds ago they had been complicit in arousing is going to lead to the kind of problems that this thread is about.

Statistically most men will comply, some wont and I think they are deserving of a sensible hearing.

You are presenting a womans point of view of sexuality
I am offering the reality  of male sexuality.

Reality rules for me.



(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 3:30:17 PM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
For some males extreme sexual arousal may have a dynamism of its own. IMO. despite what feminists or wimmen of either sex believe or "know".


Well, I know in many cases when someone claims to "just know" something, it's just pompous, self-validating bullshit. You're saying, in effect that a physical act based on primal drives should be excused as unstoppable? I think if you were the victim of your own "logic" you might see things differently. On the other hand, maybe you would like it because you were asking for it all along.

Bob

_____________________________

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro--Hunter S. Thompson
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide!--Chief Dead St. Knockout, 1933, Liverpool
Damn the crops. I'll only find peace at the end of a rope.--Winston Van Loo, 1911

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 3:30:58 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		You're too intelligent not to realise that when your reality starts to harm someone else's reality, your reality has to stop.


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(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 3:45:48 PM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
What I do say, and I repeat, is that women are playing with fire if they  think that being provocative in the extreme and then attempting to be coy, if you will, and refuse to consummate the overpowering feelings that not 30 seconds ago they had been complicit in arousing is going to lead to the kind of problems that this thread is about.


Are you relating a particular incident? Several? Have you considered journaling? Or maybe writing a letter to the girl(s) who shut you down, just to get it out of your system...and then burn the letter in a "purification" ceremony?

quote:

You are presenting a womans point of view of sexuality
I am offering the reality  of male sexuality.


As you perceive it, based on your own life experiences and/or your interpretation of accounts.

quote:

Reality rules for me.

Your version of reality, you mean. Fortunately, you must obey the laws of a society with  greater perspectives and higher ethics than your own.

Bob



_____________________________

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro--Hunter S. Thompson
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide!--Chief Dead St. Knockout, 1933, Liverpool
Damn the crops. I'll only find peace at the end of a rope.--Winston Van Loo, 1911

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 4:12:01 PM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		I repeat and will continue to repeat that human beings are creatures of emotion.
High level rational considered intellect is present only in the minority.
We are all behaviourally very close to the beasts of the field.

We are currently going thru' a period when it considered intrinsically right to emphasise the female  point of view. This is understandable  and is an attempt to redress the overbearing complacent patriarchal past.

Nevertheless a male is programmed to be a sex machine. I do not have the faintest idea why a woman would lead a man to the actual point of intercourse and then suddenly decide NO we  shouldn't do this , but it happens and the consequences are likely to be "unfortunate".
In that case I strongly believe the man has a reasonable defense to offer.
If he is lying then of course his defense evaporates, the problem is when only two people are involved, how does one tell ?

(in reply to DesertRat)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 4:39:27 PM   
JerryFrankster


Posts: 188
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

quote:

MissMorrigan
if they  think that being provocative in the extreme and then attempting to be coy, if you will, and refuse to consummate the overpowering feelings that not 30 seconds ago they had been complicit in arousing is going to lead to the kind of problems that this thread is about.


If a person tells you they want to stop having sex with you, you have 3 seconds, then it's rape. This rule applies to both women and men, Dom/me(s) and subs.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/15/2008 4:42:10 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Seeks, simply put sexuality should never overcome morality. No matter how horny you get. I have had the odd last minute change of mind and always accepted it, even if not graciously. Its okay to be miffed at being led on, its not okay to continue. At least not in my book.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 60
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