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RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 10:24:36 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

That mind change is like walking blindfold into the middle of a busy motor way and then taking off the blind fold and expecting that there will be no negative consequences.


Because the laws of acceleration and friction mean that it takes a man 200 yards to stop?

(in reply to Alumbrado)
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RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 11:40:03 AM   
MissMorrigan


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I understand what Seeks was referring to and still feel there is no justification for someone continuing with the 'act' once a person has told them to stop, regardless of what stage they have reached and including if they are approaching climax.

quote:

ORIGINAL: beltainefaerie
As first I wasbetween irritated and horrified by what seeks said, but as the responses have gone on, I am getting a better sense of what he means.  I still don't agree exactly, but I am starting to get it.  It seems that he speaks, not of the woman who is unsure how far she wants with a partner and has clearly expressed her retiscence.  Nor is he referring to anyone being brutally held down against her will.  It seems that he is rather referring to what would in previous years have been known as a cocktease. 


As for categorising rapes, how is this to be done? It's definitely a clear case of rape if the person being raped has little to no previous sexual history, but not if the person has been 'round the block' a few times, so to speak and you have already stated that a person's (I'm not singling out either gender) sexual history is already scrutinised and quite frankly, I feel that has no bearing whatsoever, whether she/he be a virgin, someone with a little sexual history, or the local prick-teasing bike. B/c if we are going to start differentiating, then we're back to square one with people frowning upon prostitutes that have been raped by punters and nodding in agreement that they somehow 'deserved it'.
quote:

ORIGINAL: beltainefaerie
I could almost see a case for having degrees of rape as we do for murder.  Assaulting women with foreign objects or in gangs would be one level.  One-on-one violent rape as another level.  Nearly sex where the victim decided not to and the assaulter continued as another level.  The problem with this in my mind, is that the psychological and emotional damage of rape can be the same no matter which of these situations took place.  Additionally, the assault on the victim's character and personal life during a rape trial are already horrific.  I think such degrees would make it that much worse and would further limit the women who were willing to come forward.


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The Tooth Fairy who teaches kids to sell body parts for money.

A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to beltainefaerie)
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RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 12:15:42 PM   
seeksfemslave


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MsM I would not advocate grading a rape according to the sexual history/social status of the victim but according to the facts of the incident. Agreed these facts are very hard to discover. That is what makes rape trials so difficult.

Take the situation mentioned in this thread  where a poster  was involved with somebody who was very very rough and left the marks. Let us say she accused her partner of rape.
If I were on a jury I would most certainly vote to convict. But let us say the accused had pictures to show that this situation was more than a one off.
What then ?

I could hazard a guess that an inexperienced woman is quite likely to inadvertently get herself into the kind of "its too much now I must stop this" scenario resulting , for the man, in unjust consequences.  Thats MO.

As for your point about stop even when close to climax....really !!!

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 2/16/2008 12:29:14 PM >

(in reply to MissMorrigan)
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RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 1:31:30 PM   
MissMorrigan


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Seeks, even if that is the case, how does one differentiate? Take the BDSMer that loves sex, is known to play 'rough' with their play partners and those play partners are many, yet one day, there's an accusation of rape. The problem with people is that they DO judge a person based on their sexual history, so for most people the person raped would be viewed less sympathetically - yet, to those that actually know the person raped would be more inclined to believe it to be rape based on that person's background, if you see what I mean.

As for your final comment, I was not suggesting the man could simply 'flick a switch' and stop his climax as it rapidly approached... that doesn't mean he has to still thrust his penis inside the person to ensure it. Really!

_____________________________

The Tooth Fairy who teaches kids to sell body parts for money.

A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
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RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 1:34:53 PM   
luckydog1


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Another factor to consider in this is the voluntary use of alchol and drugs by both participants, which is pretty common in date rape scenarios, right?.  Not talking about slipping drugs or spinking drinks.  If a person willingly does 6 shots, and decides the next day she wished she hadn't slept with the guy is that rape?  If she was voluntarilly too wasted to say no, is that the guys fault?

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
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RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 1:41:24 PM   
MissMorrigan


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Hmm... how do you qualify someone being 'wasted'? If they're over the drink-driving limit? Got a nice buzz going on but still able to make rational decisions? Not able to walk/talk coherently, or even unconscious, perhaps?

If someone in the latter two sobered up to find someone had sexual intercourse with them then it's rape.

_____________________________

The Tooth Fairy who teaches kids to sell body parts for money.

A free society is a society where it is safe to find one's self unpopular and where history has shown that exceptions are not that exceptional.

(in reply to luckydog1)
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RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 2:23:42 PM   
JerryFrankster


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In your opinions, was this guy raped?

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt56070.html


I am a calm non cussing reasonable person on WP.

Except for this post. I looked around to see if I was allowed to really vent and saw nothing to the contrary. I coulnt find a Mod to PM. If this post needs to be edited for content fine. I will accept any punishment for what i am about to say. I say this in anger.


I was reading the post on " Aspies more likely to get HIV" I put in my two cents, twice.

ANd I realized as I started to type a frustrated impotent rage swelled up inside me. I know why. I have never talked about this to anyone. The few times I have started to i could see that I wasnt going to be understood.
While I love WP its not a magic place where everybody share the same problems . I started to try to talk about what my "love Life" has been like and some frustrated assshole called me a f***ing gigalo.
The only time I have read of stories like my own is when women write. In fact I had to tell my daterape story to someone as a story about a woman before I realized what happened.

I try to find some good in everything. Before it happened I couldnt understand how someone could be raped without the threat of violence. Now I do .
And dont hand me any bullshit about a man cant be raped by a woman its physically impossible. I thought that too and to my old self I say "shut up you sheltered armchair theorist!"

An erection is a mindless reaction to stimuli.

My story is the same as most frustrated geeks on WP. no girls, drugs or booze. Lots of model building, reading Steven King and watching Doctor Who. Untill College.

I let my hair grow out and started dressing like the trippy art student I was.

It wasn't college girls that noticed me. It was the older women who worked at the jobs i had at the shopping mall. They were older and beautiful, way out if my league. They would flirt with me.
On flirting . I read about so many men here taking it as serious and being hurt. Well back then I KNEW it wasnt serious. Besides Here was a thirty year oldbusty blonde who put her self through college on beauty pagent scolarships. Of cousre its all a joke.

Untill they say you want to go out for a drink? I'm thinking milkshake. Besides I wasnt old enough to get served. No , she drives me back to her place to get changed. She comes out in jeans and a sweatshirt no shoes and goes over to her fridge where she keeps wine in a BOX. A BOX! like you find at a cheap art gallery opening!

But thats not the rape I'm talking about in my title.
It was mostly older women. Or authority figures, a boss. Twice I was told I was hired just because the boss wanted to f**k me. How do you think that meant me sfeel as a human being who had been proud he got the job because of his accomplishments?

Then came the pot head girls. Here try this and let me keep you stoned for a year. Have a beer. Have a cigarette, try some acid, shrooms, estacy.....

Then after college I worked at a community center. Everybody wears those goddamn "MILF Hunter" t shirts like its something funny . Being used for sex is not funny. "f***ing" is not funny. There can be moments while making love with someone you trust where things are silly but being treated or treating someone like MEAT is not funny.

Single moms, like bosses or older women are authority figures. They have thier stuff together mnore than me. they have too.
But single moms work fast.
Several times I showed up for a babysitting job on the side only to find dinner ( and more stinking booze or pot) waiting . No kid. " Billys with his dad this weekend screw me quick."
I was targeted . Cute innocent art teacher thats good with kids.

I am ASHAMED to admit how many women I have had sex with. Its more than my age.

Dispite my " sucesses" I still had the hardest time asking a girl I liked out. The two times I was in love I had to have a mutual friend ask. ANd both of those girls were virgins. The first remained a virgin. The second it wasnt untill a year into the relationship.

Now I havent dated in nearly five years or more.

These women I was with were beautiful. Youd ask " Whats your problem" That rightg f***ing there is irrelevant and also part of the basic problem.

The OP date rape was a young blonde athetic architeture student. It doesnt matter if she had been overweight stupid or old.

The son of a bitch I am SO f***ing MPISSED AT ids MEDia MEDIA MEDIA MEDAIA! ANd the bullshit goddamn lockerroom talk mentality men seem to think is ok.
Thats why i dfid what I did.

My friends were and still are virgin dorks that know more about Godzilla movies and 80s bands than women. Theyre no help. Theyre stuck in an unrealistic plastic fantasy world of pornography. Porn which has NEVER done a thing for me because it isnt real. Not even remotely. Missonary etyle is the best becaus eyou can look at the peson youre with and talk to them by kissiing. They never show that position in pornos. Just animal rutting. And my buddies wonder why they dont go out on dates? The women they idolize in the porn and mainstream movies are not what real women are like.

ONCE after a film shoot the whole crew wanted to go a strip club. I said NO! Finally somebody gave me a joint to smaoke to relax. ( see the problem rifght there?) I went in hered through a money activated turnstile and felt like an animal. The show host stood on stage intoducing the women like you would cattle for sale. The men had to actually SIT ON THEIR HANDS while getting a lap dance. How demeaning is that.


And me? I was , , , BORED. Becaus eit wasnt real. I had originall y thought why go and get yourself excited when thres nothing you can do about it? But I saw there was nothing to be excited about, I didnt KNOW who these women were.

Five years ago I had learned what I wanted. I started trying to get the women to NOT f**k me on a first date. The more I was a poilite gentleman the more they came after me at the end of the night. A kiss should be a feeling worked up to, not obligatory at the end of the night.

I cant control myself when I eat a box of cookies but unlike most people I do have a reign on my hormones.

The worst thing id the women I REALLY liked I'd try to push taking it slow. MJy second love i mentioned earlier? We waited a yaer and was together for five afterwards. Compare that to three week stands.The womrn I took it slow with would not call me back.
I tried shaking hands: " Are you GAY dave? " or " What ? Are you a f***ing salesman?"

I would half jokingly mention I had mace and I knew how to use it. That was just seen a splaying hard to get and excited them all the more. All that stuff they say on the pick up sites is true, if you want a woman push her away. Like an ignored cat shell come back to you.

Whos the villian here?
Before anyone one says posts you better read the whole of my story. Heres the lesson.

AND I AM COMMANDING THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE LITTLE BOYS TO TELL THEM THIS !!!!

" It's Okay for a guy to say 'no'."

It took me ten years of being used to learn that. As a result I don't date, because they couldnt handle that.
Love is caring about someone else more than you do about yourself.
But love is something that is worked up to.

Say " no" if you mean it guys . Women, you have luckily already know this.

Nobody HAS to screw. Theres too much crappy pressure, now on womwn as well to get as much as you can.
I read peoples sex stories here and its not even the same act. f***ing and Making Love are so different that . . .

(in reply to MissMorrigan)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 2:59:07 PM   
seeksfemslave


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MissMorrigan: Luckydog asked you a perfectly sensible question and you chose to  focus on one aspect of that question.
Woman pissed out of her mind and virtually unconscious. male effs her. Rape beyond any question. The male deserves all a civilised  legal system  can thro' at him.

Woman  drinks, likes her male partner. lets that be known, indulges in heavy intimate sexual activity and then suddenly says NO this is too much by which time the male who is programmed for this remember, dont blame me thats how things are, is simply beside himself with unrequieted lust, cant stop and effs her.
What should the legal system do in your opinon.?
Pander to the mob or try to impose some sensible sanction?

(in reply to JerryFrankster)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 3:00:36 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
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From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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assuming he wasn't already inside of her, he deserves whatever the legal system throws at him because he should have been capable of stopping. if he isn't capable of that, he shouldn't be engaging in sex at all. if he is already inside of her, i'd be a little bit more lenient in terms of giving him a chance to calm down, etc. but if he isn't, there's no reason why he should go ahead with it (i don't count "but we're really uncivilized" to be a reason, unfortunately).


< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 2/16/2008 3:02:33 PM >


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
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(in reply to seeksfemslave)
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RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 3:00:41 PM   
laurell3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

MissMorrigan: Luckydog asked you a perfectly sensible question and you chose to  focus on one aspect of that question.
Woman pissed out of her mind and virtually unconscious. male effs her. Rape beyond any question. The male deserves all a civilised  legal system  can thro' at him.

Woman  drinks, likes her male partner. lets that be known, indulges in heavy intimate sexual activity and then suddenly says NO this is too much by which time the male who is programmed for this remember, dont blame me thats how things are, is simply beside himself with unrequieted lust, cant stop and effs her.
What should the legal system do in your opinon.?
Pander to the mob or try to impose some sensible sanction?


beside himself with unrequited lust = rapist and sex offender.  No means No, always.  Get over it.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 3:12:34 PM   
seeksfemslave


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And some Females believe they are the "sensible" sex. I'm sorry but just you dont get it.
If males could keep their pecker in their pocket the world would be a better place IMO and Females would be left with a bit of a problem.he he he he he

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 3:13:53 PM   
hisannabelle


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From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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also, on the subject of someone being "beside themselves with unrequited lust," who are y'all having sex with? sheesh. i've never, not once, consensually had sex with a man who was incapable of stopping with a couple seconds' notice if something was wrong. they might be sexually frustrated, horny, upset, or miffed, and it's not something that i've ever actually had to test very often, but i've never had consensual sex with a single person who got so out of it that they absolutely would HAVE to keep fucking me if i said no. how does that work, exactly?

_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 3:21:13 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Well Annabelle the first question I must ask you is this: have you ever  engaged in intimate sexual activity with male, and I mean really intimate, and then suddenly changed the subject ?

I am not prying for salacious details I am simply trying to establish the background.
Men and young men in particular are hormonally driven in a way that  women simply cant grasp. Thats what I think.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 2/16/2008 3:25:51 PM >

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 3:24:41 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
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From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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i've "changed the subject" out of necessity (i have post traumatic stress disorder, it can disrupt things). and yes, it has caused the changing to happen mid-intercourse. and yes, the person i was having sex with stopped, no problem, and he was not even terribly upset about it.

in retrospect, i'm sure there are men i've slept with who would not have been willing to stop. but every single one of them was able. again...i'm wondering...who the heck are y'all sleeping with? because the men i've slept with had perfectly functioning brains as well as dicks.

edited to add: since you mentioned young men, the youngest person i've slept with is 15 (i was 15 as well at the time) and the oldest is my master - 54 - if that has any bearing on how you read my posts.


< Message edited by hisannabelle -- 2/16/2008 3:33:58 PM >


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
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RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 3:30:06 PM   
kittinSol


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It's rare that a man will argue that he is at the mercy of his biology, you know, Seeks?

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RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 3:33:45 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Stopped mid intercourse ?
Male says Oh how lovely I must rationalise this.
Were I  a Judge and this scenario came before me I would send you to prison.  

(in reply to hisannabelle)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 3:34:52 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
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oh great, i should go to prison for having post traumatic stress disorder now?

seriously, seeks. i doubt you're going to find many people who would agree with that. have you ever had ptsd?


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 3:35:16 PM   
laurell3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

And some Females believe they are the "sensible" sex. I'm sorry but just you dont get it.
If males could keep their pecker in their pocket the world would be a better place IMO and Females would be left with a bit of a problem.he he he he he



I do get it seeks.  You just aren't going to redefine rape to be what you want to be because you are frustrated and honestly your stereotypes are amazing.  Do you truly believe that when a man says no in the heat of the moment it's easy on a woman?  Do you really believe that there are women that desire sex as much as men?  Do you honestly believe that most men cannot control their hormonal urges to the point of forcing sex upon others?  Seriously, the only man I see here saying such a thing is you and it's shocking and I worry for you that you don't realize what you are describing isn't a problem with the legal system, it's a mental illness.  You really should think about what you are saying.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 3:45:39 PM   
seeksfemslave


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Laurell my sweet a man saying NO in the heat of the moment I arsk ya'.
Please be sensible. I could not arsk for a better example of my claim than females just dont get it than that,
CM I luv ya'. lol

(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it u... - 2/16/2008 3:47:17 PM   
hisannabelle


Posts: 1992
Joined: 12/3/2006
From: Tallahassee, FL, USA
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so...in that case, any men we've been with who've ever said no in the heat of the moment weren't really men? (and yes, that's happened to me as well.)

that right there is the attitude that keeps male rape victims from being able to get help.


_____________________________

a'ishah (the artist formerly known as annabelle)
i have the kind of beauty that moves...

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 100
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