RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk!

RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (Full Version)

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seeksfemslave -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/15/2008 4:59:33 PM)
How about the morality of the female behaviour ? What is she thinking about ? I clearly remember the I think his name was Angus Diggle lol affair where it was eventually agreed that the female involved had behaved in an unreasonable way. Also subsequently the same female accused someone else of rape and the Scottish "wotsit" who decides whether a case should procede declined to prosecute. Searched the web and here we are http://www.minettemarrin.com/minettemarrin/1994/10/pity_poor_diggl.html quote: The whole date-rape nonsense, of which this is the worst example in this country, was the direct result of political correctness. There have been some signs on the Left recently of a turning away from the most oppressive forms of PC. Let them prove they mean it. I do not subscribe to the idea of date rape nonsense and if you read the link you will see that the case is at the "soft" end of the market

MadRabbit -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/15/2008 5:01:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nineveh quote: ORIGINAL: hisannabelle quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Also when men are empowered with the right to be victims. LOL, Sol, I didn't realise that being a "victim" was "empowering." actually, i think she put it really well. women are allowed to be victims, and men are not, because both are viewed in very specific ways in this society. women are only allowed to be victims under certain conditions, though. being able to say, "what happened to me was a crime" and be validated can be extremely empowering. it allows you to acknowledge what happened, possibly seek some sort of legal recourse, and to at least have some possibility of closure. any rape victim (or any kind of victim, for that matter), regardless of gender, who is constantly told or is telling themselves that it wasn't "really" rape cannot get past what happened because their experience as a victim isn't even validated to begin with. unfortunately, male rape victims experience this more often because of the widespread belief that men "can't" be raped. Men can be vitims of murder, or theft, or even assault but admitting to being raped is somehow terribly disempowering for a man. The next time you mouth off to Bruno at the bar and get your face smashed to the concrete, give the police a call and file police reports and a restraining order in front of your buddies, because you weren't strong enough to defend yourself against him. Let me know how empowered you feel as a man afterwords.

DesertRat -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/15/2008 6:09:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave I do not subscribe to the idea of date rape nonsense and if you read the link you will see that the case is at the "soft" end of the market Date rape is a fact, but you'll always be able to find anecdotes to support your position. Sometimes date rape is surely bullshit but that doesn't mean it never happens. I don't buy the political correctness whine. I hear it as "waaahhh...'they' don't approve of my bigotry masquerading (but not successfully) as common sense. "You made me get a hard on, so now I have to fuck you. If I don't, I will burst into flames." Yeah, right. "You made me really mad, so now I have to shoot you. If I don't, my head will explode." I know some pretty un-PC people who don't have any trouble seeing the total lack of logic in that mindset. It's an excuse...and a lame one, at that. Bob

laurell3 -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/15/2008 6:17:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Nobody in their right mind would advocate that the stronger should be allowed to force the weaker to do anything, let alone have sex. I'm speaking here of a general civic/legal principle. The fact remains IMO that this issue is not simple and women can behave sexually, whether unwittingly or not, in a way that unleashes some very primitive drives that may not be able to be contained.. A mature legal system will recognise that fact IMO. The law will never recognize that people cannot control their primal urges (thank God). No means no, nonconsentual sex is rape and forcing yourself on someone because "you can't control yourself" as some fantasy ideal of a mature legal system is ludicrious. If you can't control yourself, get a psych evaluation and into treatment for sexual offenders before it's too late and take this idiot politician who hopefully just signed his own demise of a career with you.

Sinergy -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/15/2008 6:28:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave I repeat and will continue to repeat that human beings are creatures of emotion. I understand you believe this about yourself. Are you stating that you would continue to force a woman (or man) to endure being sexually violated because you are a slave to your emotions? You end where she begins, despite what your penis thinks. Sinergy

hisannabelle -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/15/2008 9:41:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesertRat quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave I do not subscribe to the idea of date rape nonsense and if you read the link you will see that the case is at the "soft" end of the market Date rape is a fact, but you'll always be able to find anecdotes to support your position. Sometimes date rape is surely bullshit but that doesn't mean it never happens. excellently put, desertrat. the funny thing is, just as often as someone is falsely accused of rape, a woman is also dragged through the legal system and made to feel like shit for reporting a rape. people tend to forget that both of those things happen. often. the reason that the majority of rapes are not committed by strangers is because a large number of rapes are date or marital rapes (although many of them are also by friends, family members, and colleagues - especially in the case of the armed services). and there is a such thing as a violent date rape (mine was), but there's also date rape where you are incapable or terrified to the point of not fighting back. just because the rape is not violent and not committed by a stranger doesn't make it consensual. date rape is not "nonsense." well, it may have been in senator douglas' time, but most women these days thank god that a lot of people feel differently now. i know i do. respectfully, annabelle.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 12:07:48 AM)
I presented but one scenario, I could give you a few others involving men (of which I know to be actual cases). I am more interested in your perspective on this though, Seeks. You say: quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Statistically most men will comply, some wont and I think they are deserving of a sensible hearing should they not be compliant to a woman who changes her mind kindly explain what you mean by that, Seeks. "It's okay, Mr Tyson. I understand your need for release was greater than your respect for the laws by which EVERY man and woman must comply, however, given that you were coerced into a position of sexual vulnerability, the woman must also accept responsibility for her foolishness that culminated in her rape and therefore, you will receive a suspended sentence." I am sure that would have been the preferred outcome for Mr Tyson. You also said: quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave We are currently going thru' a period when it considered intrinsically right to emphasise the female point of view. This is understandable and is an attempt to redress the overbearing complacent patriarchal past. For centuries woman was anonymous, seen as a lesser person and man saw it as his 'right' to take whatever he wanted. Then societies EVOLVED. A man can feel righteous indignation at having been denied, he can not and never will have the right to feel justified in forcing a woman or man to continue a sexual act against their will. As for anyone that brings forth a false allegation of rape, I trust they will receive the harshest penalty that is possible to impose on them.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 2:01:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave I do not subscribe to the idea of date rape nonsense and if you read the link you will see that the case is at the "soft" end of the market This unfortunately reads as exactly the reverse of what I think on the subject. It is a criticism of the comment in the link that all date rape claims are the result of PC thinking. quote: from the link I posted The whole date-rape nonsense, of which this is the worst example in this country, was the direct result of political correctness I think what I am saying is being either misrepresented or misunderstood. The scenarios I have in mind are not those where a woman is attacked by a stranger or physically assaulted by someone she barely knows or even has chosen as a partner. ie I acknowledge that partners can be sexually assaulted. The truth is that it can and does happen where the couple know each other and highly intimate consensual sexual activity takes place, something happens and the woman suddenly changes her mind. That is what is revealed in trial reports and it is then when things can go badly wrong. Under those circumstances I believe the man deserves a fair hearing and should not be "lynched" by a mob mentality.

hisannabelle -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 2:05:13 AM)
thanks for clarifying your views on what you quoted in that earlier post, seeks...i read it completely the opposite. i appreciate you clearing that up. maybe lynching was a bit hasty...we'll just torture you for a few hours ;)

seeksfemslave -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 2:33:34 AM)
MissMorrigan refers to the Mike Tyson rape case. I did a bit of "googling" and there is no doubt about it, Tyson has a grim record, but I also found this about Tyson's conviction for rape. Aug. 6, 1993 - By a 2-1 vote, the Indiana Court of Appeals upholds Tyson's conviction. ie one Judge at least thought that Tyson was Not Guilty of rape. Given the high profile nature of the case I ask....was he the honest one of the three...I dont really know, do you ? "googling" more it turns out that the dissenting Judge thought relevant info. was not heard at the trial. It then gets better or worse depending on your point of view. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE1DB1730F934A15751C0A965958260 quote: Desiree Washington, the woman whose rape charge put Mike Tyson in prison, falsely accused one of her high school classmates of rape more than three years ago, Tyson's lawyer said in a motion filed with the Indiana Court of Appeals.

seeksfemslave -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 4:01:23 AM)
Re my comment on "date rape nonsense" I have just noticed that DesertRat selectively quoted my post 61 in his post 63 to change the meaning of what I had said. in post 61. Geddit. Good.

Sinergy -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 7:41:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave The truth is that it can and does happen where the couple know each other and highly intimate consensual sexual activity takes place, something happens and the woman suddenly changes her mind. Well, the woman suddenly changing her mind means it is no longer CONSENSUAL sexual activity. Non-consensual sexual activity is a synonym for "rape." If she suddenly expresses her safeword, whether that be Petunia or "knock it off, motherfucker," do you continue to single tail her to a bloody mess because she originally consented to the activity? Sinergy

seeksfemslave -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 7:57:27 AM)
That mind change is like walking blindfold into the middle of a busy motor way and then taking off the blind fold and expecting that there will be no negative consequences. On the motor way something nasty is almost certain to occur. In the bedroom...who knows..depending on what actually does happen so should the sentence be set. A rigid the man is a bastard response is unjust IMO. Some neurotic women do make a habit of this kind of thing.

Sinergy -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 8:19:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave Some neurotic women do make a habit of this kind of thing. The question was "do you single tail her into a bloody mess because she originally consented to the activity" The answer appears to be yes. Your rationale is interesting, but not relevant to the question. Sinergy

seeksfemslave -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 8:41:39 AM)
Are you the Sinergy that used to make posts which while they didnt always gel with my views at least made some sense ? Only arskin'

beltainefaerie -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 8:46:20 AM)
As first I wasbetween irritated and horrified by what seeks said, but as the responses have gone on, I am getting a better sense of what he means. I still don't agree exactly, but I am starting to get it. It seems that he speaks, not of the woman who is unsure how far she wants with a partner and has clearly expressed her retiscence. Nor is he referring to anyone being brutally held down against her will. It seems that he is rather referring to what would in previous years have been known as a cocktease. A woman who enjoys the flirting, touching and arousing of her partner that appears to be leading toward intercourse. Maybe they are even naked and about ready to before she says nevermind. Is that more what you are talking about? I do get the distinction. Now, I have to say that I still think someone can and should stop. I still do believe it is rape if he continues. I also would love it if society stopped dealing with sexuality as if only men have unbearable urges that hit them like a train. Because of our societal stereotypes, the man who wants to wait until the couple is emotionally ready to have sex is seen as if there must be something wrong with him. A woman who has an irrepressible sexuality is also viewed as a freak. I have been with a man who wanted to take things slow and we would get into similar situations to the one I described above, just gender reversed. It was difficult not to just jump onto his hard cock, but being a civilized person, I clawed my way back from the primal urge and masturbated at home later. (Incidentally, we did finally have sex and it was perfect. We were in a better place emotionally than when I just wanted to jump him and we eventually got happily married, but enough of my aside) I could almost see a case for having degrees of rape as we do for murder. Assaulting women with foreign objects or in gangs would be one level. One-on-one violent rape as another level. Nearly sex where the victim decided not to and the assaulter continued as another level. The problem with this in my mind, is that the psychological and emotional damage of rape can be the same no matter which of these situations took place. Additionally, the assault on the victim's character and personal life during a rape trial are already horrific. I think such degrees would make it that much worse and would further limit the women who were willing to come forward. Just my 2 cents.

DesertRat -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 9:24:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave quote: ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave I do not subscribe to the idea of date rape nonsense and if you read the link you will see that the case is at the "soft" end of the market This unfortunately reads as exactly the reverse of what I think on the subject. It is a criticism of the comment in the link that all date rape claims are the result of PC thinking. quote: from the link I posted The whole date-rape nonsense, of which this is the worst example in this country, was the direct result of political correctness I think what I am saying is being either misrepresented or misunderstood. The scenarios I have in mind are not those where a woman is attacked by a stranger or physically assaulted by someone she barely knows or even has chosen as a partner. ie I acknowledge that partners can be sexually assaulted. The truth is that it can and does happen where the couple know each other and highly intimate consensual sexual activity takes place, something happens and the woman suddenly changes her mind. That is what is revealed in trial reports and it is then when things can go badly wrong. Under those circumstances I believe the man deserves a fair hearing and should not be "lynched" by a mob mentality. Misunderstood, maybe. Reading this post I think your "nonsense" statement was unintentionally ambiguous and I opted for the negative interpretation. I am always against lynch mobs. So, if the law were to take into account factors such as possible enticement, maybe someone could be charged with a "second degree" type felony. So, instead of being nailed to a cross upside down and shot, the offender could just do 10 to 20 years in prison. Don't they already do that? Bob

Lucylastic -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 9:46:23 AM)
I also have to add a couple of thoughts to my post, regarding Seeks first post, I still maintain that if you cant control it, to the point of taking someone elses rights away, ignoring the withdrawl of consent, then you should be punished. I do know that passion/need/lust can be very powerful, can be extremely intense and overwhelming... Very animalistic, very raw, and rough, and there is nothing wrong with that, as long as you are doing with someone who is willing. I went out with a chap who was the mildest mannered person you could meet, until you got into the bedroom, then he turned into someone completely different, a wild thing, not vicious, not nasty, but very animalistic and rough. I had bruises and bite marks and couldnt walk without wincing. .... was he a rapist? not to my mind, I didnt withdraw consent altho I got pretty scared at one point, (I bitched about it like hell afterwards to him) , but to others he would probably fit into that category with someone who didnt enjoy rough sex. Is it reasonable to say no to a guy who is on the edge of orgasm, right on the vinegar stroke..I dont get that at all, unless hes really doing physical harm, no...wait till its over and get out, if you are that involved up to that point? have a realistic expectation that hes not gonna take much notice, and you should have said no sooner! For the women who falsely accuse men of rape, well I have no patience with them, they make a mockery out of something that is very scary, very violating and only too real for tooo many women (and men). just a couple of thoughts, Lucy

seeksfemslave -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 10:18:33 AM)
I am very pleased to read Beltaenefaerie's and Lucylastic's responses. I should have "thought of" graduated sentencing then maybe what I was trying to say would have been a bit clearer. So thanks for that.

Alumbrado -> RE: Tennessee Senator "rape just isn’t what it used to be" .What a jerk! (2/16/2008 10:22:08 AM)
quote: Aug. 6, 1993 - By a 2-1 vote, the Indiana Court of Appeals upholds Tyson's conviction. ie one Judge at least thought that Tyson was Not Guilty of rape. BS... appeals don't work that way. One judge at least thought that whatever issue was raised in the appeal was worthy of further review ( and 'I didn't like the verdict' is not a issue for appeal)...which is not a finding of 'Not Guilty', no matter what font you use.

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