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LOL. Between Obama and his goal are two of the most powerful and effective political machines going (Clinton's and the GOP's). His supporters can use all the help they can get.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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ORIGINAL: Maitreange

My mistakes! I thought french resistants would be taken into acount. (they were the only french one fighting while the government of Petain was collaborating with Nazis...I think these numbers are meaningless in the french case if you don't count civil loss...because Degaulle's resistants were not a recognized military force, however withouth them US wouldn't have beaten germans out of France).  But this is really not the point for what you told before (that US had better not take part in it, for their sake...). Somehow you still get to avoid real arguments...

Why am I wrong "again", where was I wrong before? :-/

I'm just glad that only a small part of the war was fought on American soil...I'm not really sure about why you think it was in our interests to join the European battle… but it made little difference after Pearl Harbor. We made the choice to declare war on Germany to aid you…we could have just as easily fought our war with Japan…with a lot less deaths.

In the end if we were just worried about the future attack of Germany we could have waited until you and your allies beat him down some…even if you lost… then jumped in and still loss less men… But then of course you would have suffered many more casualties both civilian and military.

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ORIGINAL: Maitreange

germans would have a huge free forced labor added to its own army.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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ORIGINAL: Maitreange

My mistakes! I thought french resistants would be taken into acount. (they were the only french one fighting while the government of Petain was collaborating with Nazis...I think these numbers are meaningless in the french case if you don't count civil loss...because Degaulle's resistants were not a recognized military force, however withouth them US wouldn't have beaten germans out of France).  But this is really not the point for what you told before (that US had better not take part in it, for their sake...). Somehow you still get to avoid real arguments...

Why am I wrong "again", where was I wrong before? :-/

I'm just glad that only a small part of the war was fought on American soil...I'm not really sure about why you think it was in our interests to join the European battle… but it made little difference after Pearl Harbor. We made the choice to declare war on Germany to aid you…we could have just as easily fought our war with Japan…with a lot less deaths.

In the end if we were just worried about the future attack of Germany we could have waited until you and your allies beat him down some…even if you lost… then jumped in and still loss less men… But then of course you would have suffered many more casualties both civilian and military.

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ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Not sure how the numbers would look on labour intensive handmades like baskets.  From any other source, they would be much more expensive, as luxury items.

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ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

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ORIGINAL: Maitreange

germans would have a huge free forced labor added to its own army.

And an atom bomb. Looonnng before good ol' Uncle sam.

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ORIGINAL: kdsub
Nope the German program was proven to be far behind the US and on the wrong track.

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Nope the German program was proven to be far behind the US and on the wrong track. I think you guys would have done a good job of reducing the military effectiveness of the German army…and along with Russia you may have defeated them. But with a lot more civilian casualties.

But no matter which case the Germans would have been a lot easier to defeat.

Lets all be glad it worked out the way it did.

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ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

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ORIGINAL: kdsub
Nope the German program was proven to be far behind the US and on the wrong track.

Really? Thought Heisenberg was trying enriched uranium? Got a source?

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ORIGINAL: caitlyn


It is, what it is ... it took all of us to win that thing.

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American 8th Air Force casualties were alarmingly high before the introduction of long-ranged fighter support. Even the small bit of information gained from the French concerning German air defenses, was absolutely vital.

You know the way we Americans are ... we kind of lose interest when things aren't going our way. Imagine if 8th Air Force casualties had been twenty-five percent higher?

___________________________

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ORIGINAL: caitlyn

The French were also very important.
 
American 8th Air Force casualties were alarmingly high before the introduction of long-ranged fighter support. Even the small bit of information gained from the French concerning German air defenses, was absolutely vital.
 
You know the way we Americans are ... we kind of lose interest when things aren't going our way. Imagine if 8th Air Force casualties had been twenty-five percent higher?

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ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Hi Popeye

I have to say I have similar ideas about the way we give money out to countries who griped and groaned that they wanted independence from us - seems they dont understand that independence means theyre on their own. However at the same time I recognise that there is very little of these monies which is actually given freely, and that very few benefit from it - on both sides of the cheque book. Its we little people over here who get to fund, back or guarantee the monies and its the little people over there who rarely see a penny of it.

Given the sorry state of affairs throughout the whole sphere of "donations" by whatever name they are described, I would suggest that were they stopped tomorrow then those for whom we might imagine the monies are being sent, would not be able to tell any difference. In my view, they are hang overs from the Cold War, when it was useful to buy allies and buy off enemies, and now redundant. I would like to see the whole thing reorganised such that those who need mosquito nets, anti-malarials, school books and other things alike, get them -without any regard whatsoever for new tanks, planes and limousines provided for the benefit of the crooks who run many of these countries, and with similar disregard for the benefit of the crooks running such schemes over here.

And as for NATO - I think youre exactly right. Many members are not pulling their weight as they might, and indeed whenever NATO is called on, it seems to always fall to the same usual suspects to provide, with the same usual suspects showing great reluctance to get involved. It needs to be reorganised - if indeed it is to be maintained at all - and the only source of motivating that reorganisation and the reinvigoration required as I can see would be if the US pulled out of the European side of it - perhaps taking Canada along to form a separate but cooperative North American side. This would force other European members to step up to the mark, and I see no other means to accomplish that.

As for Obama and all this - I really dont think you or we will see any change in policy in these regards from him. But I still think he's your best candidate for the moment - the US, its people, the west and indeed the whole world needs someone with his charisma and ability to inspire to get us through the next few years - like it or not who your president is has worldwide implications, and it has to be better to have someone with some vision such as he seems to demonstrate. If only he can ride the wave of fallout from Bush.

E

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Roosevelt made the decision to declare war on Germany for two reasons