RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear

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Alumbrado -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 1:26:01 PM)
quote: By the way guys, The term "jew" is deragatory. You should say "the jewish people". Its like the "N" word. I can say it, cause I'm jewish, you cant. No, what is derogatory is you trying to be cute, while equating 'Jew' with the 'N' word, and setting yourself up as the arbiter of who is Jewish enough to say it.

luckydog1 -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 1:34:03 PM)
lucsious, you have to understand "Commas" are Jew tricks. He is trying to make a Jew/Communist/USSR link I think. Which is of course what the Protocols were written for, trying to maintain the Czarist Divine Right. I frankly would encourage everyone to read it, because this text has caused a huge amount of suffering in the world. Its really just a phamplet and can be read in about 15 minutes. Most of the Protocaolls are 3- 4 paragraphs long. A simple text for simple peasants. It is blatantly an appeal for the Good Chraistian folk to abandon the ideas of Democracy and rights and return to the natural benevolent Despotism of the Christian Kings, who protect them from nefarious Jew ideas like Rights, Constitutions, Sexuall liscence (kink), Democracy, ect. Jews who plot world wise to take down the God Given Christian Depostic Kings and establish Republics. Mulsims can easyily use the same template, just by substituting Caliphate for King. Its full of in your in your face stuff, the Gentiles are stupid, they are dumb beasts led by sex and booze, they are fools, they can't satisfy thier women, ect. Its written to be shouted to a drunken mob to get them angry.

Alumbrado -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 1:34:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Not really, luckydog1 is asking Real0ne to provide source materials from a claim made that seems either outrageous or exaggerated. Perhaps you can provide the source materials. I have already been called anti-Semitic and a holocaust denier on this thread, and it did not really work out well for the persons doing it, so I would prefer a more scholarly and erudite response. Thank you in advance Sinergy You have been called on repeating anti-semitic assertions...and it worked out just fine for me. But keep on pretending that there are not already reams of 'scholarly and erudite' sources linked to and cited in this thread, all of which blow your cheerleading for hate and ignorance out of the water... The longer you do that, the more people will have chance to do their own homework, and decide if the Protocols are forgeries or not, and see who's version of how the Holocaust occured is factual, and deduce what agenda could possibly motivate you to spread your agit-prop.

Sinergy -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 1:36:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado The longer you do that, the more people will have chance to do their own homework, and decide if the Protocols are forgeries or not, and see who's version of how the Holocaust occured is factual, and deduce what agenda could possibly motivate you to spread your agit-prop. For example, I dont even know what the Protocols are, nor have I read them, yet Alumbrado has decided that I am an anti-semitic Protocol-ranting hate mongerer. Thank you for proving my point, Alumbrado. Sinergy

luckydog1 -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 1:51:18 PM)
No Sinergy I think he is saying you are purposely ignoring the role of the Protocolls and Anti Semetism in whats going on and has gone on over there, refusing to read links and look at the many peices of evidence cited in this discussion. And joking about it. And that you haven't followed the discussion. Not that you personally are a Protocoll waving anti Semite.

luckydog1 -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 2:15:43 PM)
Alumbrado says "Anyone who points out that it isn't about land, it is about the religious and ethnic goal of killing every Jew on the planet is swarmed with ad hom attacks to derail that line of discussion. The hijack is couched in blaming antebellum Zionists and denying being anti-Jew. " Not everyone on the Anti Isreal side has the Goal of killing every Jew on the planet, you should realise that. Many muslims simply want the destruction of Isreal and to get their Dhimi back, not to kill them. Jews can be very usefull dhimi. They want to kill the Uppity Jews, which just happens to be most of them/us, but thats not thier motivation. The looting of Isreal will be the greatest Pogrom in history. Others want Isreal gone because they are allies of the USA. The USSR helped create Isreal, but they didn't go Marxist. They were heretics, in that they were pretty socialist, but rejected Marxism. And you are fully aware of the half baked marxist ideas still floating around the collective mind. NG was even plagurising the Revolutionary Communist Web Page to prove Isreal is Facist. Both of the above groups like to encourage the actuall Jew hating to achieve thier goals, but don't really feel it. They want the Jews to accept their status as dhimi or Marxists. That it will involve killing most of them is incidental. The fools actually believing the protocolls are just dumb fodder, anti semetism like the Protocols motivates the Ignorant mob to act.

DomKen -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 2:49:46 PM)
People are arguing over whether or not the protocols are made up? Still? It's a plagarizm of a satirical pamphlet by Maurice Joly and the novel Biarritz by Hermann Goedsche. This was thoroughly documented in 1921 by Lucien Wolf writing for The Times. Scholars since then have further validated these facts. http://emperor.vwh.net/antisem/first.pdf Trust unrealone to believe any tissue of lies that supports his bigotry.

Rule -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 3:13:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen It's a plagarizm of a satirical pamphlet by Maurice Joly So that pushes the date back to 1865. It does not imply that this Declaration of intent is a forgery nor plagiarism. Some schemes do evolve and necessitate to be restated at subsequent times when appropriate.

Sinergy -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 3:40:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 No Sinergy I think he is saying you are purposely ignoring the role of the Protocolls and Anti Semetism in whats going on and has gone on over there, refusing to read links and look at the many peices of evidence cited in this discussion. And joking about it. And that you haven't followed the discussion. Not that you personally are a Protocoll waving anti Semite. That is a nice theory, but incorrect. I am unwilling to go back and read and reprint his rants, luckydog1, or read his claims that I am a holocaust denier, an anti-semite, a follower of the Protocols, etc. He has been asked repeatedly by both myself and others to substantiate any of his points, but his methodology in arguing his point is to repeatedly attack other people's links, fail to answer anybody's questions, refuse to post any of his own links, and to be obstreperous, insulting, and abrasive. While I suspect you think I was making fun of Israel, my asking why their government and secret service have been considered the same level of information security threat as China, the USSR, Iraq, Iraq, etc., while people talk about how closely allied they are to US interests, was actually a serious question. A serious question repeatedly ignored by the supporters of Israel. Strumpet's comments about the fact that Israel would not exist without the $50B in US aid, and her unwillingness to pay our tax dollars to kill Palestineans, was responded to as if she is an anti-Semite. I personally have an issue with my own government using my tax dollars to kill people, and not wanting Israel to do so is not anti-semitic, anti-Jew, anti-Israel, or anything else. My main point has been to state that the current methodology does not work, is reminiscent of methods that countries like South Africa inflicted on the locals for decades, and to suggest that perhaps doing the same thing over and over again that has not worked for a half a century seems pointless and psychotic. When South Africa did it, much of the world rose up and talked about how horrible it was to treat people that way. When the Israeli's do it, I get the impression that the rest of the world is too frightened to question the existence and behavior of the 400 pound red Gorilla (to use the theories of Codependancy) on the dining room table. The response I have gotten back from most people supporting either side have followed a general pattern. 1) They are a united force aiming to bring Us down, so person X should have been able to convince all of Them to stop doing bad things to us. 2) We have to oppress them because if we didnt, they would oppress us back. 3) It is not our responsibility to help set up a situation where everybody can work together for the benefit of all. 4) We are not going to put our guns down, stop building walls, set up a world where people dont have to starve to death, not invade, and be nice to them until they do it first. Sinergy p.s. An eye for an eye makes the world blind. Mohandas K. Ghandi.

Hippiekinkster -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 4:34:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen People are arguing over whether or not the protocols are made up? Still? It's a plagarizm of a satirical pamphlet by Maurice Joly and the novel Biarritz by Hermann Goedsche. This was thoroughly documented in 1921 by Lucien Wolf writing for The Times. Scholars since then have further validated these facts. http://emperor.vwh.net/antisem/first.pdf Trust unrealone to believe any tissue of lies that supports his bigotry. Well, rule apparently believes that that anti-Jew filth is a "declaration of intent" by the International Zionist Jewish Marxist Hook-nosed Xtian Baby-eaters World Conquest Club, gmbH. I believe he was a guard at Auschwitz in his previous life. Which belief do YOU, gentle reader, believe is true?

caitlyn -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 4:38:23 PM)
Given your four very good points, why the attempt to beat down any reasonsed point made by the other side? Perhaps a fresh start. Israel ... a) has no better claim to the land than anyone else. b) should not blame the people of 2008, for what happened in the past. c) should realize that violating the rights of civilians is a poor response to terrorist attacks. American ... a) backing of Israel, done blindly, is not helping matters. b) politicians should stop using this as a political football. Palestinians and other Arab States ... (your turn to tell us what points you will yield)

luckydog1 -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 4:47:49 PM)
Actually sinergy his point was that the claim that "the Muslims and Jew lived happily in peace untill the British and Zionists screwed everything up", is false, and easily shown to be so. Multitudes of cites have been posted. Are you denying the legal status of Dhimi? You can't in any honest way. So you must have an agenda or just be joking around. The claim that the Jew and Arab lived in harmony in the mid east generally and the palestine region in paticular untill the British take over, is an anti Semetic lie. It is the same as saying the Whites and Blacks lived in harmony durring Jim Crow. Its just stupid. It can only be held through the purposefull ignoring of heavily documented history, and/or acceptance of nonsense such as the Protocols (or the Revolutionary Communist web site) or more liklely echos of these kinds of primary sources. Thats why its important to know about them. Thats why denying they matter is insideous.

DomKen -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 5:20:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen It's a plagarizm of a satirical pamphlet by Maurice Joly So that pushes the date back to 1865. It does not imply that this Declaration of intent is a forgery nor plagiarism. Some schemes do evolve and necessitate to be restated at subsequent times when appropriate. Wrong. Maurice Joly's pamphlet, (translated from the original French) Dialogue in Hell between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, has nothing to do with Jews but is actually a screed against Napoleon III.

Sinergy -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 5:29:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn . a) has no better claim to the land than anyone else. b) should not blame the people of 2008, for what happened in the past. c) should realize that violating the rights of civilians is a poor response to terrorist attacks. I can realize the moon is made of green cheese, but this doesnt actually accomplish anything. It is like a Sense Of The Senate vote, a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. What is significant are actions. Are you saying that the Israelis are going to rein in their mistreatment of the Palestineans? Stop invading the West Bank and the Gaza Strip? Tear down their wall? Stop bulldozing and salting neighborhoods? quote: American ... a) backing of Israel, done blindly, is not helping matters. Why is the US backing Israel at all, blindly or not? They are not backing us in any way shape or form, and we can bomb most of the planet from bases abroad, or even invade (for example, Iraq) without involving Israel at all. They traded US secrets with the Soviet Union for decades, getting arms, money, and refugees for our military secrets. Israel was a complete negative during Desert Storm, and the US had to go to extreme lengths to keep them out of the conflict. So the idea that Israel is a staging point into the region is an outdated idea that is simply fictional in the new Millenium. We dont need Israel. Start off with the US not exporting weapons to Israel. Mention to Israel and everybody else in the region that any disputes they have can be referred to the UN, not the US, for arbitration. Israel has nukes. They dont have ICBMs to use them against the US, and we flatten the country if they fire them at us, so why are we worried? Let the UN take over being the world's peacekeeper. We lose control over a lot of oil outside of Saudi Arabia, but this goes back to Desert Storm time period, and the Dipshit In Chief's invasion was predicated on the idea that we would be welcomed as saviors and the country would happily submit to US rule. Wrong answer. Hypothetical Example 1) Iran tries to nuke Israel. 2) Israel nukes Syria 3) A toxic plume of radioactive fallout kills everybody in Iran and Israel. 4) Everybody involved has now learned to not play with nukes. Tell them to get along, or not, but the US is no longer willing to be the big brother who can beat up anybody that picks on the argumentative little brat. If the Israelis dislike the manner in which their government has pissed off their neighbors, perhaps it is time for them to elect in people who are less hawkish, aggressive, and who know how to negotiate respectfully with their neighbors. You may not want to hear this, but with the Dipshit in Chief's antics in Iraq, the US has been forced into taking this position whether we want to or not. Might as well be mature and intelligent enough to proactively make the point, rather than pretend we have the power to do anything should the region melt down. b) politicians should stop using this as a political football. Im not sure what you mean. I want to add something else: EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE PLANET a) Should stop selling guns and ammunition to the region until they all learn to play nice in the sand. quote: Palestinians and other Arab States ... This is a complex issue. 1) The borders in the region were artificially created, and the concept of a "nation state" is an offshoot of European imperialism. The whole region is going to go to hell in a handbasket no matter what we do. The only reason anybody in the world cares is because of the oil they sit on. Chad, for example, is being ignored for precisely that reason. We find a new energy source and let them all go rot in the sand. 2) Palestineans are indigenous people. Everybody in the region is going to have to learn to get along, or the area will need to be (and probably is on its way to being) broken up into a bunch of sultanates or fiefdoms or principalities or warlord run tribes, including Lebanon, Palestine, Kurdistan, etc. Despite all the rantings by the Neo-Cons, the Dipshit In Chief's actions will probably end up signing the death knell of Syria and Jordan, and result in an anti-American Shiite country forming out of what used to be Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Syria, Jordan, and the little countries like Dubai and Qatar. Saudi Arabia will have a meltdown, but the US has a treaty with them which will be in place until they run out of oil. Disarm them all. Put UN peacekeepers in place. or Tell them all to sink or swim, but the US is going back to fixing it's own problems and not pouring it's money down the toilet while hoping the Israelis wont sell our military secrets to the Chinese. Sinergy p.s. Sadly, the Chinese will move in to exploit everybody and destroy our economy when they finish rebuilding the Panama Canal, but the Dipshit In Chief's actions have let all of these things come to pass.

Real0ne -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 5:53:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen People are arguing over whether or not the protocols are made up? Still? It's a plagarizm of a satirical pamphlet by Maurice Joly and the novel Biarritz by Hermann Goedsche. This was thoroughly documented in 1921 by Lucien Wolf writing for The Times. Scholars since then have further validated these facts. http://emperor.vwh.net/antisem/first.pdf Trust unrealone to believe any tissue of lies that supports his bigotry. The "TIMES" concludes this article with the following significant words: "If the "Protocols" were written by the Learned Elders of Zion then everything that was attempted and done against the Jews, is justified, necessary and urgent" Some weighty words! Is there any wonder then that the powerful influences against which this terrible indictment is directed, made all possible efforts to bring this document into discredit? Clever steps were undertaken to prove that the "Protocols" were forgeries. The Jews have again and again disputed their authenticity. There is still pending in the Courts of Berne, Switzerland, in which a publisher is accused of defamation for his allegations as to the genuineness of the "Protocols." The Jewish plaintiffs demand the Court brand the document a forgery and thereby prohibit its circulation by the publisher. HISTORICAL FACTS A Jewish Weekly 'Judische Pressezentrale," published in Zurich, Switzerland, claims in its issue of December 1 5, 1933, that the "Protocols" were fabricated by the Russian secret police in 1905 shortly after the Japanese war. It is unwise to defend a cause by simply insisting on something, that could easily be proved false. How is it possible that a document, which existed 20 years previously, in three languages, could be concocted in 19O5 - a document with which several persons were already familiar? That Jewish assertion is simply ridiculous. It has been convincingly proved that the "Protocols" were written first in Hebrew, then in French and last in Russian. The "Protocols" represent a strategical plan, an assembly of authenticated documents, which were kept secret for a long time. That new edition, which attracted so much attention throughout the whole world was compiled and edited by the KAHAL, the secret Jewish Government. L. Fry says that the actual editorial work was done by ASHER GINZBERG, also known as ACHAD-HA-AM. This important person (also used to be known locally in Odessa as "King of the Jews" -Editor) was one of the four Jews who forced Balfour to make known the declaration of November 2, 1917., through which the Jews obtained a "National Home" in Palestine. Herewith they achieved one of the "Aims" contained in the "Protocols." This evidence is of paramount value! http://www.iahushua.com/BeWise/newlight.html Unfortunately this writer did not provide references as to where this proof can be found which of course means that this mach dude most likely plagiarized it as well! I am sure it will show up sooner or later cuz this is the internet after all :) Of course one does not need to look any further than the jewish bible the talmud to see all the antigoyism in their bible. Do i really need to list line item by line item? the antigoyism in the talmud? I did once before you know and I was labeled an antisemite for quoting their own bible and if that makes me a bigot by your narrow minded off the charts leftist definition then so be it. Yep trust kenny to mislead you by providing 1/2 the story.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 6:01:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 Your hate of jews is crystal clear. your knowlege of truth is not. Not really, luckydog1 is asking Real0ne to provide source materials from a claim made that seems either outrageous or exaggerated. Perhaps you can provide the source materials. I have already been called anti-Semitic and a holocaust denier on this thread, and it did not really work out well for the persons doing it, so I would prefer a more scholarly and erudite response. Thank you in advance Sinergy go to the holocust museum, talk to someone who lived it. Look at all the pictures and documents. It doesnt take a genius to find the sourses that its all true. Documents. pictures and people who were in camps and the Concentration Camp Auchwitz and its gas chambers is still in Poland for you to go see.

Sinergy -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 6:10:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 go to the holocust museum, talk to someone who lived it. Look at all the pictures and documents. It doesnt take a genius to find the sourses that its all true. Documents. pictures and people who were in camps and the Concentration Camp Auchwitz and its gas chambers is still in Poland for you to go see. It would be nice if certain people stopped assuming that anybody who disagrees with the actions of the Israeli government are holocaust deniers. I used to live in Europe. I have talked to many people from that era. I have been to concentration camps, museums. I studied World War 2 to the present in College. You may find this difficult to believe, but I may know more about the Holocaust than you do. Sinergy

Rule -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 6:14:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen It's a plagarizm of a satirical pamphlet by Maurice Joly So that pushes the date back to 1865. It does not imply that this Declaration of intent is a forgery nor plagiarism. Some schemes do evolve and necessitate to be restated at subsequent times when appropriate. Wrong. Maurice Joly's pamphlet, (translated from the original French) Dialogue in Hell between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, has nothing to do with Jews but is actually a screed against Napoleon III. I am (nearly) always right, that is my nature. What did you not understand about the words that I this time for your convenience made bold?

Real0ne -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 6:22:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: luckydog1 Your hate of jews is crystal clear. your knowlege of truth is not. Not really, luckydog1 is asking Real0ne to provide source materials from a claim made that seems either outrageous or exaggerated. Perhaps you can provide the source materials. I have already been called anti-Semitic and a holocaust denier on this thread, and it did not really work out well for the persons doing it, so I would prefer a more scholarly and erudite response. Thank you in advance Sinergy might know I cnat put my fingers on the exact article. It was a "sum" total of all the people who died at hands of stalin being in power. It was done by either berkley, george washington university or princeton. I am thinking GWU. THey claimed upwards of 40,million and that is the total which includes policies he implemented that caused vast starvation of russians etc etc etc I do have a bunch of links of people want to go through and add them all up as there were so many occasions I doubt it is conclusive. Unfortunately I did not save the original link and I have no clue what I had in myu search engine at that time to bring it up. http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/russia/stories/ex.agents/index.html http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/03/04/1046540182736.html these are pretty close

caitlyn -> RE: Iran: Israel will soon disappear (3/2/2008 6:27:26 PM)
No see ... the point was supposed to be that your side would actually take ownership in some of the wrongs by those you support ... as opposed to passing them off on someone else. Your four points ... they most clearly apply to you.

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