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RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/24/2008 12:40:23 PM   
wkdshadow


Posts: 129
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		I sort of have to agree with the mindset that the only real solution is for people to take personal responsibility for their personal safety. If you won't take responsibility for yourself in any aspect of life, I don't feel you can reasonably expect others to take up the responsibility for you... and they won't, man or woman. When it comes to violent crime, or rather any crime where the perpetrator is in direct contact with the victim, it rarely happens in the proximity of a peace officer anyways.

An example, in school did telling the teacher about a bully do anything for you? How about when you got fed up, and started hitting him harder than he hit you 'til you couldn't lift your arms? I don't know about you, but the latter worked the best for me in the immediate situation, and in the goal of deterring future problems. The rules in the real world for self defense are on your side, not the bullys.

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/24/2008 12:44:50 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wkdshadow


An example, in school did telling the teacher about a bully do anything for you?


...worked for me.....

quote:

How about when you got fed up, and started hitting him harder than he hit you 'til you couldn't lift your arms?


...well, i tried that but his friends just held me down and gave me an even worse beating.


........meeting violence with violence is only effective if you can muster more violence than your opposition, and thats not always possible. Now, am i just to be written off because some bully was blessed with more upper body strength than me and nastier friends, or is this a more complex situation than just fighting fire with fire?


(in reply to wkdshadow)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/24/2008 1:24:52 PM   
wkdshadow


Posts: 129
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		Sometimes you can fight fire with water. Other times, you do indeed need fire to fight fire. Best to carry some waterproof matches so you're prepared for either case.


I'll point out that being prepared for a situation where you need to defend yourself mitigates physical prowness, whether it's training in hand to hand, combat with a knife, or combat with a firearm. Concealed weapons permits are not hard to obtain, and Sam Colt did indeed level the playing field. It's up to you to decide if the bully's friends are best combatted with bigger friends of your own, or a teacher that will do nothing.




(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/24/2008 1:48:48 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wkdshadow

It's up to you to decide if the bully's friends are best combatted with bigger friends of your own, or a teacher that will do nothing.



Bullying and assault have specific dynamics or pre-contact queues which one can learn and use to one's benefit.

Whether this is talking one's way out of it, hitting first, deflecting the assaulting energy, or convincing the assailant that one is a poor target, my point is that many things lead up to where blows are exchanged, and the conflict ending without turning violent works for me.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to wkdshadow)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/24/2008 2:33:33 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wkdshadow

Sometimes you can fight fire with water. Other times, you do indeed need fire to fight fire. Best to carry some waterproof matches so you're prepared for either case.


I'll point out that being prepared for a situation where you need to defend yourself mitigates physical prowness, whether it's training in hand to hand, combat with a knife, or combat with a firearm. Concealed weapons permits are not hard to obtain, and Sam Colt did indeed level the playing field. It's up to you to decide if the bully's friends are best combatted with bigger friends of your own, or a teacher that will do nothing.






(my italics)

...are you seriously suggesting i should have shot them? At school? This was a school situation, i was 12. Surely recent history has taught us that is a bad idea.......and, the teacher did sort it out. Did you read my post? And why do you distrust teachers so much?

(in reply to wkdshadow)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/24/2008 2:36:23 PM   
Alumbrado


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Status: offline 		You aren't getting it.... you should have bribed the teacher to have some 'friends' take care of the bullies....

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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/24/2008 2:38:07 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

You aren't getting it.... you should have bribed the teacher to have some 'friends' take care of the bullies....


...didn't have to. Sometimes doing the right thing works.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/24/2008 2:40:29 PM   
Alumbrado


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Status: offline 		And oneof the big difficulties in rationally addressing issues of crime, is the conflation between what may work against criminals in an individual situation, with how to deal with the whole social artifact called 'crime'.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/24/2008 2:41:39 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

And oneof the big difficulties in rationally addressing issues of crime, is the conflation between what may work against criminals in an individual situation, with how to deal with the whole social artifact called 'crime'.


...very true........map/territory errors are rife.

(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/24/2008 2:54:37 PM   
wkdshadow


Posts: 129
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		No, no, I'm not saying bring a gun to school. The example of a bully was just an example. What I'm saying right now, as an adult with charge of your own life, that's a decision that you can make if you're ever put in that situation and you feel your life is threatened, and you feel it's the best course of action. Resisting is by no means the best course of action in all accounts, if someone wants your wallet, you give them your wallet.

And I don't "distrust teachers" per se, but when I had issues and did things by the rules, nothing ever happened until I stood up for myself and took care of things on my own. That's what I'm saying here - personal responsibility, and people standing up for themselves is what it takes to combat violent crime in the immediate, and overall long term.

< Message edited by wkdshadow -- 2/24/2008 2:56:02 PM >

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/24/2008 2:58:57 PM   
Sinergy


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I popped a bully in the face when I was 11 and prepared for my doom.

Which never happened.  He looked at me for a while and never bothered me again.

The problem is that people need to learn this lesson before people elect them to high office and give them control of the military.

To the hammer (commander in chief of the armed forces), everything else (other countries, religions, people who live where the oil or tungsten we need) looks like a nail.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/24/2008 3:03:32 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		As one might gather from my answers to the 'Favorite Movie' and 'Favorite Movie Quotes' threads, I get a very real and visceral thrill out of seeing 'bad guys' get their asses handed to them.... on screen.

In real life encounters with criminal behavior, my personal responses have ranged from doing nothing (after discovering my bicycle stolen), to calling the authorities, to directly making the person decide to change their behavior...sometimes through verbally de-escalating the situation, sometimes through non-verbal communication.

I've also spent a long time trying to figure out what makes crime in general tick, and still haven't found anyone who has determined 'the' thing...no criminal genes, no Bertillion abberations, no marxist inequality, no magic wand of education or rehabilitation or anything else, explains enough to survive rigorous critical analysis.

I also haven't found anything sufficient to discount some unsettling notions, such as the ones that maybe we are supposed to have crime in our society, or that the traits sometimes labelled as deviance (not the kinky kind), are possibly evolutionary advantages.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Prison Reforms - You Decide - 2/25/2008 6:40:27 AM   
knees2you


Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline 		Prime Example. Shawshank Redemption.
 
As Always, ant

(in reply to MissMorrigan)
Profile   Post #: 153
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