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RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/21/2008 6:36:20 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I have some very bad news for you, Sinergy. In 11 months, President Bush II will be out of office, and filed right in front of Jimmy Carter. Nobody is running against him. Soon all the hate and spewings will be thrown back at the left in the form of "well you sure threw a shit fit when Bush did what Hillary is doing right now."

Speaking of Taibbi, would you care to offer your opinion of his recent article on how the Democrats completely sold out the "peace movement?" There are actually a couple threads on the topic you could dig up (Level launched one, if that helps with the search).

I would be fascinated to hear your scholarly and researched sources for the Evil That Was Carter. I have read a bunch about who qualifies as the worst President the US has ever had (Taft, Hoover, etc) and Carter does not even make the list. Feel free to quality and quantify your strident assertions that he was so bad with empirical data viewed in context, and we can have an articulate discussion of it.

Hate to break it to you, Hillary needs a miracle to win the Democratic nomination. I never liked Bill Clinton much, but compared to the criminally insane doofus you people elected, he seems next to God.

I posted about the peace movement and Taibbi's articles when the article was recent (recent? that article was several years ago), so I imagine you need to catch up on your readings.

Enjoy catching up to the modern age.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 21

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/21/2008 6:41:16 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I posted about the peace movement and Taibbi's articles when the article was recent (recent? that article was several years ago), so I imagine you need to catch up on your readings.

        http://www.collarchat.com/m_1621588/tm.htm

     Need barbeque sauce?

     *edit. bold added

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 2/21/2008 6:42:25 PM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 22

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/21/2008 6:47:12 PM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I posted about the peace movement and Taibbi's articles when the article was recent (recent? that article was several years ago), so I imagine you need to catch up on your readings.

I did not actually state that I posted on that thread.

But thanks anyway.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 23

RE: The McCains and Body Language In General - 2/21/2008 6:47:38 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
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Sinergy,

This is one of the basic differences between men and women. Women observe and evaluate more. We tune into subtleties. This is why when guys aren't talking.. we watch for signals. This is interpreted as "intuition".

The body language during this debate tonight is VERY interesting to me. Obama is constantly writing something while Hillary speaks..When HE speaks, she locks here eyes on him. She VERY seldom is writing while he speaks I feel she thinks on her feet quite well.

Sometimes actions speak louder than words.

(I have this mental image of someone running into the Oval Office and yelling.."MISSLES ON THE WAY!!! and Obabma grabbing pen and paper and saying "Let me write this down...")

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 2/21/2008 6:48:47 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 24

RE: The McCains and Body Language In General - 2/21/2008 6:51:22 PM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

I feel she thinks on her feet quite well.

That is one theory.

Another one is that she honestly believes she thinks on her feet quite well, and is simply waiting for her chance to speak so she can continue stating her prepared speech without actually "debating" what he says.

He might actually be writing what she says so he can respond to her, whereas her approach is to use the debate as a means of holding up her side of what she believes is a parallel monologue.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 25

RE: The McCains and Body Language In General - 2/21/2008 7:03:35 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Obama is constantly writing something while Hillary speaks..When HE speaks, she locks here eyes on him. She VERY seldom is writing while he speaks I feel she thinks on her feet quite well.

I'm not watching this debate, but I noticed the same thing during the one in LA. When I was judging debate, it was something I looked for. The writer usually cleaned the listener's clock on the flow chart.

I see it as a great advantage in front of the camera as well. Staring at him will create a lot more chances for the TV audience to see her with some nasty expression on her face. She's in a very bad spot right now.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 26

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/21/2008 8:12:21 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
I would be fascinated to hear your scholarly and researched sources for the Evil That Was Carter.

I don't believe I've ever called Carter "evil," Sinergy. These little chats would be much more interesting if it wasn't for your incessant attempts to put words in my mouth that you aren't afraid to address.

What research??? There is only one set of numbers that matter for defining a failed presidency. Wiki has them at 489 to 49.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 27

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/21/2008 8:30:37 PM

solia

Posts: 115
Joined: 8/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: CraZYWiLLiE

Perhaps he is having flashbacks of being a POW...
He is getting my vote.

that's another issue.. he needs to "let it go".. it's wearing thin for me. Besides, we didn't "win" THAT war either. I'd rather have Audy Murphy. I fear McCain's flashbacks are going to be more "Rambo"-like than we can afford. But that's another thought for another thread. Anyone who continues a situation like he proposes and was IN Viet Nam has not learned from history.

BE a POW and then get back to me on this comment.

As for body language ... there could be a legitimate medical reason for his eye blinking. I don't put merit on body language. I hold my body in certain ways to decrease the pain of various injuries ~ my positioning ALWAYS negates body language. I have soooo much fun with all of my friends who constantly try to 'read' me.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 28

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/21/2008 9:38:32 PM

solia

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Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline

Some possible reasons for the eye blinking .. stuff that causes me to blink around certain people .. allergies to perfumes, colognes, scented lotions, some makeups .. maybe this is why he blinked excessively around a woman vs a man. Maybe she hadn't bathed in a while and was smelling rather ripe. Or maybe she fired off a malicious stinker and he was trying to be polite by blinking rather than gagging.

Dunno ~ wasn't there.

(in reply to solia)

Post #: 29

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/22/2008 8:16:09 AM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: solia

BE a POW and then get back to me on this comment.

Gee.. were you??? Please, do tell us all about it.

The mark of a Hero (as he is touted to be) is one who overcomes their adversaries- they still overcome HIM with their memory. This is why I say 'let it go' (He got CAUGHT is all, and THIS is his claim to fame?) I'm sorry it happened to him. That was 40 odd years ago, I'd like to know has he done of note since then is all.

_____________________________

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I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

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Post #: 30

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/22/2008 8:32:12 AM

Sinergy

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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

What research??? There is only one set of numbers that matter for defining a failed presidency. Wiki has them at 489 to 49.

While I understand that Wikipedia is the source for the numbers on your Worst Presidency score card, lets take one example of a failed Presidency.

James Buchanan fiddled away his Presidency doing absolutely nothing to deal with the looming problem between the industrialized North and the insistence on outlawing Slavery (to allow trade with the countries in Europe who refused to trade with nations that allowed slavery) in the United States, and the agrarian south who maintained slavery to support the growth of tobacco. He basically hoped that the Union would not self destruct until after he left office.

He is considered a failed Presidency precisely because he didnt do anything but sit in whatever passed as the Oval Office while the country splintered into two, leaving the problem of the civil war to his successor, Abraham Lincoln.

This is the sort of empirical evidence which makes for a meaningful discussion on what a failed presidency is, TheHeretic, not a score you look up in Wikipedia.

If you want, feel free to look up the other winners of the title failed presidents like Herbert Hoover, James K. Polk, Warren G. Harding, Andrew Johnson, or Richard M. Nixon. (I add Nixon who did a wonderful job, largely because many consider him one of the worst because he was forced to resign from office)

To help you out, some of those considered the best include Washington, FDR, and Lincoln.

I look forward to your educated and articulate analysis.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 31

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/22/2008 9:39:23 AM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: solia

BE a POW and then get back to me on this comment.

What do you want to know about being a POW?

There are about a dozen survivors of Dachausen living about an hour from my house.

They are decent people. But they are also hard people. Most men don't like to meet my gaze. I don't like to meet theirs.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to solia)

Post #: 32

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/22/2008 11:30:42 AM

luckydog1

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I was rather sure that Sinergy would refuse to comment on the less than 2 week old Matt Taibbi, article in Rolling Stone. And yet again I have been shown right. He even refuses to believe it exists. It so much fun watching leftists jump around trying to form arguments. I love these boards.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/18349197/the_chicken_doves

" Capitalizing on America's desire to end the war, they hijacked the anti-war movement itself, filling the ranks of peace groups with loyal party hacks. Anti-war organizations essentially became a political tool for the Democrats — one operated from inside the Beltway and devoted primarily to targeting Republicans.
This supposedly grass-roots "anti-war coalition" met regularly on K Street, the very capital of top-down Beltway politics. At the forefront of the groups are Thomas Matzzie and Brad Woodhouse of Americans Against the Escalation in Iraq, the leader of the anti-war lobby. Along with other K Street crusaders, the two have received iconic treatment from The Washington Post and The New York Times, both of which depicted the anti-war warriors as young idealist-progressives in shirtsleeves, riding a mirthful spirit into political combat — changing the world is fun!"

The consensus seemed to be that Taibbi is a Neo Con hack of no relevance. Yet you have cited him extensivley. What say you? Glad you came back to the boards, I very much wanted your opinion on this.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 33

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/22/2008 11:36:59 AM

Arpig

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From: Increasingly further from reality
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quote:

......whenever i see the name McCain i keep thinking back to oven chips.........(UK readers may be the only ones to get that)

Actually, if I'm not mistaken the McCain food company is based in New Brunswick, Canada

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Post #: 34

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/22/2008 12:24:50 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

The consensus seemed to be that Taibbi is a Neo Con hack of no relevance. Yet you have cited him extensivley.

I have no idea who Matt Taibbi is, and I haven't cited him, as far as I know.

quote:

Glad you came back to the boards, I very much wanted your opinion on this.

Was this reply for me?

As far as American politics go, I believe all the boxes but the last one have been tried, and that last box seems empty. Hence confining my comment to the point that I was curious as to what relevance the POW issue could possibly have in politics, provided the guy isn't constantly locking up due to PTSD or somesuch.

As for the comment on leftists, I would note that, from this side of the pond, there is no visible difference between the right and the left in terms of the quality or substance of their argument, nor the distribution of their voters in terms of admirable intellectual qualities. Hell, there doesn't even appear to be all that much of a political difference between them.

Imagine a circle hovering in front of you. The left is clockwise from the bottom. The right is counterclockwise from the bottom. Both of these directions of movement will eventually lead you to the top. If you approach the top from the left, that is communism. Approached from the right, it is fascism. As a starting point, it is pure anarchy. At the bottom is liberal individualism. Sitting on top of that point at the botttom of the circle, like the proverbial man in the moon, you will find me ignoring American politics.

<-180°, 0°] ⋃ [0°, +180°>

What was the question again?

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to luckydog1)

Post #: 35

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/22/2008 12:35:50 PM

Alumbrado

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Is this a hijack?

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 36

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/22/2008 12:56:47 PM

Aswad

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Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Is this a hijack?

If so, it is not intentional. I just replied to what he said.

Health,
al-As(s)wad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 37

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/22/2008 1:07:23 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
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I meant all the posts getting away from taking the the OP to task for 'swiftboating'.

That tactic is used with no regard for political orientation....someone is doing good in the polls, so start a rumor that they are a muslim terrorist, or a zionist, or a coward, or a cripple, or a lesbian...
Been done for centuries, by the left, by the right, by the current single party system in the US, to maintain the 'Us vs. Them' facade that feeds into the lumpen mentality and scares up votes.

Your point about the non-linearity of political alignment is a good one, but still doesn't address the fundamental abuse of power in employing scare tactics.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 38

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/22/2008 1:31:10 PM

Aswad

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Your point about the non-linearity of political alignment is a good one, but still doesn't address the fundamental abuse of power in employing scare tactics.

Can power even be abused?

That said, I was replying to what seemed to be a post addressed to me.

As for the issue you are mentioning, I would ideally like to see people focus on issues in politics, rather than camps, but then again I would also like to see dual voting (i.e. positive votes and negative votes; qualifying round first to avoid fringe parties seizing the day) and parliamentarism with a voting body and a motion-forwarding body, disconnected from the actual government (which is really more like a job, than anything else, in such a system: the government is the employer). Both seem rather unlikely to happen, particularly in the US, but I'm going to make a pass at getting the exit poll crowd up here to at least do a demo on it in a few years. That, and voting on the party closest to the bottom of the circle is pretty much the extent of my interest in politics until some things change.

Health,
al-Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 39

RE: The McCain Body Language - 2/22/2008 5:07:15 PM

luckydog1

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Joined: 1/16/2006
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Aswad, It was to Sinergy, which is why I named him in the first sentance. It obviously had nothing to do with you.

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 40

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