RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry

RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (Full Version)

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[Poll]

GUNS should we be allowed to carry

yes, with permit readily avaiable

55% (47)

yes, carry as you will

25% (22)

no, guns are bad and hurt people

7% (6)

no, needs tighter laws (only police and feds)

10% (9)

don't care

1% (1)

Total Votes : 85

(last vote on : 3/5/2008 5:51:20 PM)
(Poll ended: 3/7/2008 12:00:00 AM)

Message

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 1:28:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nursygirl sigh. I live in Canda. I watch American news. on February 13th an 8th grade student went into the lab at school and shot his buddy in the back of the head.at 8:15 min the morning. The last I heard was the child was declared brain dead and being kept alive by machines for organ donation. University of Illinois - same week. Student walks in and starts shooting. 17 (I think) dead - many others wounded. Again that week: A nine year old is playing in the backyard with his sister. She has the potato chips He wants them. She says no. He shoots her in the head. You people can argue for the right to carry arms all you like - but I should point out that these types of stories almost NEVER originate in Canada. You can come and visit - but your guns are NOT WELCOME here. And yes - I realize I do not speak for all Canadians. I speak for my children who are horrified at what happens at school, and for my husband who is a teacher in a school with no metal detectors Well girl travel the paths that I walk and see if you wouldn't want to be armed..My business takes me to the streets of NYC.Washington DC and Detroit etc..TRY talking some young punk out of cutting your throat for a few dollars... Nope peace and love doesn't exist in this type of situation..You will find assholes in every walk of life and don't tell me there aren't killing in your country for I have seen them happen...I will always have one strapped on where ever I go where its allow or not...Just my two cents on this whole thing...

nursygirl -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 1:44:16 PM)
I hear what you are saying bounty - and that is one of the reason why I won't travel to your country. And its not just your - we have our own drive-by shootings in Toronto and Vancouver. We have our policement being killed by bad guys. Its just so ......... wrong when its the little one getting hurt. And as for the business of the adults in the home being responsible - where do you think kids learn how to handle guns in the first place .........."I wanna be like you Dad" I guess I am a product of big city living growing up in the upper middle class not ever being exposed to the underbelly of society

beargonewild -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 4:12:29 PM)
~FR~ As I read through all the opinions on this topic, one glaring issue I see is the many posters say they carry a firearm for personal protection. I have to ask in all seriousness, are most of the towns and cities in the US that dangerous that a private citizen feels they need to be armed? I am Canadian and realize that our laws concerning firearms isn't the same as the Americans. Yet the one thing which is quite alike between our countries is the fact that in our larger cities we too have gang shootings and such; whether it's in Moncton, Toronto, Saskatoon or Vancouver. Yet most Canadians will either demand better police action to prevent future shootings and in the meantime avoid these areas which are high risk areas. Chances are, my opinions here won't mean dick squat to many of the posters here. I just had to express my thoughts on this subject again even if it doesn't mean a hill of beans.

SirRober -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 5:14:10 PM)
I think that if the police were more accountable then there would be less of a problem..... but it is hard for the force(pd) to maintain a strong presence when the firepower of some people/gangs is better or stronger then theirs.

christine1 -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 5:35:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nursygirl sigh. I live in Canda. I watch American news. on February 13th an 8th grade student went into the lab at school and shot his buddy in the back of the head.at 8:15 min the morning. The last I heard was the child was declared brain dead and being kept alive by machines for organ donation. University of Illinois - same week. Student walks in and starts shooting. 17 (I think) dead - many others wounded. Again that week: A nine year old is playing in the backyard with his sister. She has the potato chips He wants them. She says no. He shoots her in the head. You people can argue for the right to carry arms all you like - but I should point out that these types of stories almost NEVER originiate in Canada. You can come and visit - but your guns are NOT WELCOME here. And yes - I realize I do not speak for all Canadians. I speak for my children who are horrified at what happens at school, and for my husband who is a teacher in a school with no metal detectors huh....guess all of us dumbass, violent Americans should move to the great white north and become perfect ay?

airborne92 -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 5:36:37 PM)
beargonewild, there are few things in this country that make it much different than Canada. First the courts have ruled over and over that the police are not required to protect any individual citizen. So demanding better police protection is pointless. Second, firearms have been a part of this country's culture since it was founded. SirRober, the problem is not that the police can't get firepower equal to or superior to that of the criminals. The problem is that the politicians would rather waste your tax money on useless things like replacing emergency equipment every other year, instead using what still works.

shannie -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 5:55:51 PM)
FAR more people (especially "little ones") are killed in car crashes than in gun-related incidents, but I never see anyone proposing lowering the speed limit to 30mph "for safety." In that case, no one would sacrifice 20mph in speed -- not even to save the lives of 10,000 children. Look at the "Rape of Nanking" (among a hundred other similar stories in history)-- the Japanese marched in and effortlessly slaughtered hundreds of thousands of people. Men looked on helplessly as their wives and children and mothers and grandmothers were tortured and slaughtered in front of their eyes. No population should ever let itself be rendered utterly helpless like that -- not for safety, not for anything.

beargonewild -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 6:45:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: christine1 quote: ORIGINAL: nursygirl sigh. I live in Canda. I watch American news. on February 13th an 8th grade student went into the lab at school and shot his buddy in the back of the head.at 8:15 min the morning. The last I heard was the child was declared brain dead and being kept alive by machines for organ donation. University of Illinois - same week. Student walks in and starts shooting. 17 (I think) dead - many others wounded. Again that week: A nine year old is playing in the backyard with his sister. She has the potato chips He wants them. She says no. He shoots her in the head. You people can argue for the right to carry arms all you like - but I should point out that these types of stories almost NEVER originiate in Canada. You can come and visit - but your guns are NOT WELCOME here. And yes - I realize I do not speak for all Canadians. I speak for my children who are horrified at what happens at school, and for my husband who is a teacher in a school with no metal detectors huh....guess all of us dumbass, violent Americans should move to the great white north and become perfect ay? Sorry christine but that isn't what nursy nor myself was alluding to. To be quite blunt, I do not deliberately look to see where a poster resides. so I have no damn idea where most live nor do I care. Because the issue is not to compare Canada to the States. Please do not turn this into a competiton of comparing one countruy against another.

beargonewild -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 6:57:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: airborne92 beargonewild, there are few things in this country that make it much different than Canada. First the courts have ruled over and over that the police are not required to protect any individual citizen. So demanding better police protection is pointless. Second, firearms have been a part of this country's culture since it was founded. SirRober, the problem is not that the police can't get firepower equal to or superior to that of the criminals. The problem is that the politicians would rather waste your tax money on useless things like replacing emergency equipment every other year, instead using what still works. What I was trying to get across is that we Canadians, for the most part do hire law enforcement officers to protect the community from illegal activity of all sorts. Thus we automatically believe that this also entails protecting the individual citizen and the community as a whole. Yes, The history of the US does include the right to bear arms. In our constitution, that was never written in when Canada was a first born and even though our Constitution had revisions, the right to bear arms has never been added. So in a nut shell, the Canadian mentality evolved to be one of passivity. By this I mean that we have a tendency to negotiate, negotiate, discuss and further discuss. That is just who we are as Canadians, generally speaking.

christine1 -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 7:08:27 PM)
i wasn't trying to pit one country against another...you misunderstood my post. it was the haughtiness that i replied to.

beargonewild -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 8:11:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: christine1 i wasn't trying to pit one country against another...you misunderstood my post. it was the haughtiness that i replied to. My appologies.

airborne92 -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 8:27:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild quote: ORIGINAL: airborne92 beargonewild, there are few things in this country that make it much different than Canada. First the courts have ruled over and over that the police are not required to protect any individual citizen. So demanding better police protection is pointless. Second, firearms have been a part of this country's culture since it was founded. SirRober, the problem is not that the police can't get firepower equal to or superior to that of the criminals. The problem is that the politicians would rather waste your tax money on useless things like replacing emergency equipment every other year, instead using what still works. What I was trying to get across is that we Canadians, for the most part do hire law enforcement officers to protect the community from illegal activity of all sorts. Thus we automatically believe that this also entails protecting the individual citizen and the community as a whole. Yes, The history of the US does include the right to bear arms. In our constitution, that was never written in when Canada was a first born and even though our Constitution had revisions, the right to bear arms has never been added. So in a nut shell, the Canadian mentality evolved to be one of passivity. By this I mean that we have a tendency to negotiate, negotiate, discuss and further discuss. That is just who we are as Canadians, generally speaking. I wasn't trying to argue any point, just point out some major differences that I know of. I have nothing against the way Canadians do things in their own country, that is their choice, and I respect them for it. I realize that you were only pointing out how things are done in Canada, and I accept that. I didn't mean to sound disrespectful in my response, just trying to point out some differences. The biggest problem in this country that I see, at least from a judicial point, is that criminals and the government have more rights in a court of law than honest law abiding citizens.

LilMinxy1 -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 9:29:53 PM)
LOCKED AND LOADED, AS ALWAYS! :-)~

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 9:31:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild ~FR~ As I read through all the opinions on this topic, one glaring issue I see is the many posters say they carry a firearm for personal protection. I have to ask in all seriousness, are most of the towns and cities in the US that dangerous that a private citizen feels they need to be armed? I am Canadian and realize that our laws concerning firearms isn't the same as the Americans. Yet the one thing which is quite alike between our countries is the fact that in our larger cities we too have gang shootings and such; whether it's in Moncton, Toronto, Saskatoon or Vancouver. Yet most Canadians will either demand better police action to prevent future shootings and in the meantime avoid these areas which are high risk areas. Chances are, my opinions here won't mean dick squat to many of the posters here. I just had to express my thoughts on this subject again even if it doesn't mean a hill of beans. Bear most of our major city's are as dangerous as hell as I am sure yours are as well.WE need to control the gangs better..If you watch the CBS 60 minutes about gangs you will see one in particular has scattered all over the Us ,Canada and europe..ITS not safe to walk the streets of our city's at night or certain parts of them any time..I am a retired special forces major,I can handle a one on one situation but gang warfare isn't like that its never one on one or several young punks thinking they can take on an ol' fellow for a few bucks smile....I have my own business where I travel to most major city's on the east coast,ITS an opinion based small research company and that means either my self or several employs are just that pounding the pavement seeking opinions for major company's and its dammmm well dangerous out there...Weapons are a danger in anyone's hand, I have seen experienced handlers have accidents,training is important and I believe one should pass a training course before a permit or the ability to purchase a gun is granted..Diane had to under go a 3 day training course to attain her concealed permit...Its not the guns but those who carry and use them like any thing else..bounty

need2bused6 -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 9:45:08 PM)
I have a carry permit and until July lived in one of the better neighborhoods in Columbus OH. 2 weeks before I moved 2 houses down had a home invasion robbery. An elderly man was seriously hurt and his wife would have been had not another neighbor saw it happen and had a gun nd killed the a**hole. It took the police 7 minutes to arrive. In most major areas in the US the Goverment can't protect you. 88

Lumus -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 9:53:52 PM)
Now, I'm curious. What is the source of the danger in US cities? Why is it there? How do you remedy it? Striding around with guns at the ready is not going to defuse tension. As I stated previously, guns are a counter-offensive weapon used [theoretically] for the purpose of defense...meaning they are still a form of offense. I've heard people say the laws are to blame. Well...how does one change legislation in the States? Y'all have a democracy, so by rights if the majority wants better laws, why wouldn't you get them? And what do you do if you don't get them? [I realize it's been a while since there was a civil war, but protest and public pressure does wonders around the world...] I've heard people blame 'youth'...and not to be a cynic, but if it's a parent saying that, I have to wonder... If you don't go to the parents to change mindsets, or the schools to change how children are taught...what do you do? Guns don't solve political, parental, or educational issues, yet these seem to be the only underlying factors being mentioned. All guns can do is attempt to intimidate or be used; that means the purpose of the gun is to inspire fear or cause pain. I don't believe Americans as a society want to live lives guided by things like fear and pain [I won't presume; I am Canadian - it does seem the sensible assumption though]. I think the biggest concern for me over this whole thread is the lack of input as to how the actual issue - why you think you need guns - can be resolved. No one talks about alternatives.

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 9:53:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirRober I think that if the police were more accountable then there would be less of a problem..... but it is hard for the force(pd) to maintain a strong presence when the firepower of some people/gangs is better or stronger then theirs. I agree,just look at that incident in LA where the police were out gunned and had to go to the local sporting good shop to get some high powered weapons for the shoot out and an armored car had to be bought in to pick up their wounded..The bank robbers were gunned to the max with compleate body armor and the whole nine yards,,,It put a policy in effect where every car includes a m16...Guns are just to easy to attain in these days and times,I go to a lot of swaps meets where any one can buy just about any weapon you would desire,just pay your money and leave with a gun,no checks,that where the law needs to step in and make some arrest..

ArizonaSunSwitch -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 10:02:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: christine1 quote: ORIGINAL: nursygirl sigh. I live in Canda. I watch American news. on February 13th an 8th grade student went into the lab at school and shot his buddy in the back of the head.at 8:15 min the morning. The last I heard was the child was declared brain dead and being kept alive by machines for organ donation. Would of it made the news if the kid stabbed him in the back of the head with an icepick ? What we really need in this country is icepick control. Some of the most restrictive gun control laws America has are for school campus's. The end result is some suicidal ass gets to kill a dozen other students before offing himself because he knows there is zero chance he'll be challenged by an armed opponent. quote: University of Illinois - same week. Student walks in and starts shooting. 17 (I think) dead - many others wounded. Yes, U of I was a free fire zone. aka gun free zone. Funny, criminals don't follow gun laws either. Who would of thought ? quote: Again that week: A nine year old is playing in the backyard with his sister. She has the potato chips He wants them. She says no. He shoots her in the head. I shot my sister in the head with a toy gun, nothing happened. Obviously, there were irresponsible or absent parents involved in the above example. quote: You people can argue for the right to carry arms all you like - but I should point out that these types of stories almost NEVER originiate in Canada. Yes, but not much of anything originates in Canada. quote: You can come and visit - but your guns are NOT WELCOME here. And yes - I realize I do not speak for all Canadians. I speak for my children who are horrified at what happens at school, and for my husband who is a teacher in a school with no metal detectors Yes, quite the pain in the ass when a private pilot flies from the continental 48 to Alaska, where in Alaska, gun carriage on-board private aircraft is mandated. (Polar bears and Grizzly show no preference in eating liberals or conservatives (we all taste like bacon) so in Alaska we have reasonable non-emotional gun laws). quote: huh....guess all of us dumbass, violent Americans should move to the great white north and become perfect ay? No, someone needs to defend Canada's only non-arctic border. If we all go there, they might have to do something rash like have a reasonable size infantry and nuclear icbm capability.

airborne92 -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 10:02:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lumus Y'all have a democracy, so by rights if the majority wants better laws, why wouldn't you get them? Actually, this is a very common misconception. The United States is not a democracy, it is a constitutional republic. The founding fathers of the United States understood that a democracy is one of the worst forms of government. If you think about it they are correct, because in a democracy 51% of the people can enslave the other 49%.

Lumus -> RE: GUNS should we be allowed to carry (2/27/2008 10:06:06 PM)
Yo, Arizona...this is about right to bear arms, not "whose country is greater"... smells a Mod coming

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