RE: Gorean's???

RE: Gorean's??? (Full Version)

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Paulsgirl -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 2:29:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 quote: ORIGINAL: Paulsgirl quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 isn't in the bible the female submissive to the male too...throw in some sodom and gamorra...wars........add a planet and we have the gor books as kinky bible? i agree and am tempted to start on the sociological/psychological role of Norman's book(s)...but i won't as enough can be already googled on the psychological/sociological need for conformity and obedience to authority as it is and there are Upanishads, Torah, Holy Bible (New and Old Testaments) and Koran which did it long before.......IMPO Gor is a post-modernist religion and i don't do that type of consensuality. PS hope Gor doesn't have a post-modernist form of Fatwah otherwise I'm fucked propably fucked without FAtwah :P hopefully fucked rather than probably helplessly fucked rather than hopefully and yes completely fucked rather than helplessly.....and not a fatwah in sight

CraZYWiLLiE -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 3:05:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 isn't in the bible the female submissive to the male too...throw in some sodom and gamorra...wars........add a planet and we have the gor books as kinky bible? ah religion.... again another book... LMFAO

Justme696 -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 3:14:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CraZYWiLLiE quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 isn't in the bible the female submissive to the male too...throw in some sodom and gamorra...wars........add a planet and we have the gor books as kinky bible? ah religion.... again another book... LMFAO well I prefer to mention porn private and pirat.... but that was to much off topic :P♠

Paulsgirl -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 3:56:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 quote: ORIGINAL: CraZYWiLLiE quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 isn't in the bible the female submissive to the male too...throw in some sodom and gamorra...wars........add a planet and we have the gor books as kinky bible? ah religion.... again another book... LMFAO well I prefer to mention porn private and pirat.... but that was to much off topic :P♠ awwwwww spoil sport...... porn is good..... The Chronicles of Planet Porn or Porn Wars or what about Porn to be Wild or oh goddit...what about Gorn? ed to add Here Today....Gorn Tomorrow

tsatske -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 4:21:09 PM)
I have never been a kajira, basicly because I have never been owned by a Gor man. It is really that simple. If a Gor man had showed an interest in this slave, and if we had seemed a good match and worked out, I would have learned to do what pleased him. I have liberally stolen from the more beautiful things in Gorean culture - occasional use of the language, some jewlry use, posistions, ect, when it pleased me. I have tried to participate in Gor groups before. Most every Gor couple or household I have ever known in R/T has been a wonderful and honorable Master, dedicated and sincere slaves, truly delightful people to know. However, much of Gor online is people who only do the roleplaying, although they get highly offended at the use of the word. But it is roleplaying, not the board here or others like it, but the 'rooms' where the language must be used and people write a character for themselves and must carefully stay in character and in world when talking, and have wars with each other. For those who do that and nothing else, many of them are very judgemental. I have been told on Gorean lists that Gors do not practice the 'perversian' of BDSM, do not beat thier slaves for the sheer pleasure of it, because on Gor, the stresses that cause such mental illness do not exist. But the Gorean couples and households I know in real life certainly practice playtime, and do it with joy, just as they do many things in thier life with joy and passion. I think the trick is to look for those who practice philosphy and lifestyle in thier R/T relationships. They, like anyone else, will have varations in how they do things. Avoid roleplayers only who want to screach at you about the one true path, rather in Gor or in BDSM, or anywhere else. A hint to look for, with Goreans, would be to aviod those who insist on speaking only in character,instead of using the books as a basis for philosophy and recongnizing that they live on Earth.

Aswad -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 4:31:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag There seems a growing disatisfaction with current values. Which is one of the things that Lange seems to have picked up on, decades ago. Pity it wasn't the main thrust of what he wrote, and that he did a shitty job in the first place. quote: Personally, I'm still waiting for the Nieztscheans to catch on. [8D] If you mean Nietzscheans in the sense of agreeing with Nietzsche's opinions on master/slave morality, the problems in western humanist thought, and so forth, then we're not as rare as you think. It's a thing that remains at the core of your being from the time you deconstruct everything else and onward, regardless of the contents of your idiosyncratic values, morals, worldview and customs past that point. If you're referring to the Andromeda series, then good luck. If you're referring to the commonly held view that Nietzsche posited agent-centric virtue morality, that cannot happen. Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 4:35:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ygraine Kinky Ayn Rand? I have to think about that one! Goreans tend not to be objectivists, in my experience, although I could be wrong. Actually, just go read the Sword of Truth series. Objectivism isn't just Rand. Objectivism has a number of features that I consider central to the Gorean philosophy, and I'm not alone in that view. The main difference appears to be between the humanist angle inherent in Objectivism, and the naturalist angle inherent in Goreanism. 'Course, I've been known to be wrong on more than one occasion; read and judge for yourself. Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 4:40:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied Really? There are definitely people who do things that are harmful and/or repulsive. Why should I respect them? Perhaps he simply meant to imply that being courteous works wonders sometimes. Seeing everything from one's own point of view isn't necessary to *act* from one's own POV. I've no problem respecting someone who's broken into a facility I've done the security work for. It's something that will gain my respect for their skills, at the very least. But I'll still get on with tracking them down and filing a report with the police. Respecting even your enemies can be a good thing. That doesn't mean staying your hand when you've finally got a blade to their throat. Health, al-Aswad.

Paulsgirl -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 4:53:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tsatske I have been told on Gorean lists that Gors do not practice the 'perversian' of BDSM, do not beat thier slaves for the sheer pleasure of it, because on Gor, the stresses that cause such mental illness do not exist. But WHERE is it? this place called Gor except in the pathological projections of a bloke called Norman? Anyway still not tempted as i would be well and truly out of business if: 1 there were no slaves who were beaten for pleasure and 2 there were no mental stresses or illnesses

Aswad -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 4:54:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 but do you cut your belly open when you disappoint or fail? (yes I know absurd remark) There are some situations where death would be the only acceptable option to me, but I'd rather use a good old fashioned combo of heroin and barbiturates, or exsanguination. The exact manner is as much a custom thing in a society where appearances were important, as anything else. I have no need to replicate that, as I'm not concerned with appearances, nor do I live in a culture that would appreciate it. Besides, it's damn painful, and I don't deal so well with pain when I don't have to. I did at one point incorporate some core values from Bushido in my life, and still incorporate a smaller subset. But I'm not concerned with being a samurai or whatever. I'm concerned with being me. As such, I'm somewhat eclectic. And I think there was a pretty good lesson in the NT about the idea of perseverance and redemption: you give it what you've got, you stumble, you fall, you get back up, you keep going, and you own it along the way. For me, suicide is nothing more than a way to avoid something unacceptable; I don't view it as a way to redeem oneself. Obviously, it seems to have been different to the samurai. That said, people who think it's "taking the easy way out" are usually the ones who have never seriously contemplated it; if they had, they would have a pretty good idea that there's nothing particularly easy about it. Leaving aside the obvious bits, thoughts that will be going through your head if you're rationally considering it include a lot of unpleasant things like what it'll be like for whoever finds you (my reason for my preference for barbiturates), what the pathologist will tell your family about your last moments (my reason for including heroin in the preferences), and what it'll be like for people to lose you (one of my main reasons for choosing life every day). [qoute]It is easy to read and say I live like this and that....but we will never know how it was then. And besides that..the samurai.....ended also because of themselfs...clinging to the past. So they are not that perfect. Nobody is perfect. Yet what you say here, is that you are holding their integrity against them. That you think it a flaw that they would not compromise what they believed in to fit their environment. (Yes, I know a lot of them were simply holding on to power, but not everyone was.) To me, it seems admirable to choose extinction over becoming the antithesis of what one holds dear. Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 4:56:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Padriag If perfection is the only measure of success, then we are all failures. Better to have high ideals and still fall short, than to have low or no ideals. For even if one aims high and fails to hit the mark, one will still shoot farther than those who never aimed high at all. Very well said, Padriag. This is the exact reason why I *aim* for perfection. quote: But still, whether its a Gorean trying to live a philosophy taken from works of fiction, or someone trying to live a modern interpretation of bushido... if their intent is to aim high, that much at least I can respect. Thank you. Health, al-Aswad.

Paulsgirl -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 4:58:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad Which is one of the things that Lange seems to have picked up on, decades ago. Pity it wasn't the main thrust of what he wrote, and that he did a shitty job in the first place. and it's a pity that for a man with such a potential intellect you do such a shitty job in writing about Lange as such.... i never read a book to tell me how to be a slave so here you can have it: i believe you to appraoch this debate from a position of arrogance and assumption of authority-on-llaalaaland

Aswad -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 5:02:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Paulsgirl i'm lost sorry.......i got a few degrees and the paperwork to show it BUT convergent norms like those you describe? if i need convergent norms of behaviour i may as well get a good book on vanilla...... It's not about anything normative. And for the subsegment I'm in, it's not about conformity, either. The idea, for me, is that I hold a set of values that I arrived at on my own, and those happen to be a lot closer to the ideas certain other people hold than to the ideas that the bulk of mainstream western society cleave to. Hence, I call myself Gorean. I never saw anything new or interesting in the books. I don't use them as a template for anything. They haven't played, and will not play, a part in my development. It's just a classification that applies to something I currently happen to be, much as a TV set fits the classification of "electronic appliance." Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 5:04:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 isn't in the bible the female submissive to the male too...throw in some sodom and gamorra...wars........add a planet and we have the gor books as kinky bible? Actually, that depends on your interpretation. It is not part of mine. What you are referring to is a part of the legacy of Saul of Tarsus, a man charged with bringing down Jesus, his followers, and his faith. A man who through questionable means came to be the dominant force in mainstream interpretations of the Christian faith. In my view, he was highly successful in carrying out what he was charged with. Similar conclusions are forwarded by Nietzsche in "The Anti-Christ." Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 5:11:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tsatske I have been told on Gorean lists that Gors do not practice the 'perversian' of BDSM, do not beat thier slaves for the sheer pleasure of it, because on Gor, the stresses that cause such mental illness do not exist. Which is utter nonsense, of course. Lange wasn't infallible, and this is one of the places where the differences between dogmatists and pragmatists become clearly visible. The former cling to the books as if they dictate reality. The latter keep reality as the point of reference, and the books as a source of inspiration (if even that). Hell, there were plenty of counterexamples in the books, for that matter. It can be amusing to watch people try to reconcile such things to maintain the delusion that the books are representative of reality, but it's more intellectually stimulating to talk to those who observe and judge for themselves, living in actual reality. Nice post, by the way. Health, al-Aswad.

Aswad -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 5:16:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Paulsgirl and it's a pity that for a man with such a potential intellect you do such a shitty job in writing about Lange as such.... i never read a book to tell me how to be a slave so here you can have it: i believe you to appraoch this debate from a position of arrogance and assumption of authority-on-llaalaaland Fair enough. I'm often perceived as arrogant. It's something I've tried to fix, but it's slow going. To make it clear, then, I'm no authority on matters Gorean, just a Gorean who shares his own take on Goreanism. As for the bit about Lange, I don't get what you're saying. My point is that he spent far more time satirizing radical feminism than he spent on alternatives to western culture and values, and that his books are the most tiresome and boring piece of shit my eyes have ever been burdened with reading in full. By the time I'm done with a paragraph, it slips from my mind. I read the books because I told a friend I would. Health, al-Aswad.

BoundDown -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/24/2008 7:51:17 PM)
Oy ve. Most that Gor is based on actually happened here on earth before the domination of "civilized white culture". or did you know that answer and were just being cute again? quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Not so much SciFi as ancient heritage Knute Angurvadel well they are almost ancient sf books :P but not the stuff to become classics

Justme696 -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/25/2008 2:51:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 but do you cut your belly open when you disappoint or fail? (yes I know absurd remark) There are some situations where death would be the only acceptable option to me, but I'd rather use a good old fashioned combo of heroin and barbiturates, or exsanguination. The exact manner is as much a custom thing in a society where appearances were important, as anything else. I have no need to replicate that, as I'm not concerned with appearances, nor do I live in a culture that would appreciate it. Besides, it's damn painful, and I don't deal so well with pain when I don't have to. I did at one point incorporate some core values from Bushido in my life, and still incorporate a smaller subset. But I'm not concerned with being a samurai or whatever. I'm concerned with being me. As such, I'm somewhat eclectic. And I think there was a pretty good lesson in the NT about the idea of perseverance and redemption: you give it what you've got, you stumble, you fall, you get back up, you keep going, and you own it along the way. For me, suicide is nothing more than a way to avoid something unacceptable; I don't view it as a way to redeem oneself. Obviously, it seems to have been different to the samurai. That said, people who think it's "taking the easy way out" are usually the ones who have never seriously contemplated it; if they had, they would have a pretty good idea that there's nothing particularly easy about it. Leaving aside the obvious bits, thoughts that will be going through your head if you're rationally considering it include a lot of unpleasant things like what it'll be like for whoever finds you (my reason for my preference for barbiturates), what the pathologist will tell your family about your last moments (my reason for including heroin in the preferences), and what it'll be like for people to lose you (one of my main reasons for choosing life every day). [qoute]It is easy to read and say I live like this and that....but we will never know how it was then. And besides that..the samurai.....ended also because of themselfs...clinging to the past. So they are not that perfect. Nobody is perfect. Yet what you say here, is that you are holding their integrity against them. That you think it a flaw that they would not compromise what they believed in to fit their environment. (Yes, I know a lot of them were simply holding on to power, but not everyone was.) To me, it seems admirable to choose extinction over becoming the antithesis of what one holds dear. Health, al-Aswad. Always nice to read you replies. I am not holding it against them,..to have their high standards and defend to the end. But what use do high standards have,,,when they lead to selfdestruction. That is why every living thing takes part in evolution...to adjust..to get stronger. Their high standards are lost now also. We propably never know why it happens...because we are not living in that time..no matter how many books we read about the subject.

Justme696 -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/25/2008 2:55:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoundDown Oy ve. Most that Gor is based on actually happened here on earth before the domination of "civilized white culture". or did you know that answer and were just being cute again? quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Not so much SciFi as ancient heritage Knute Angurvadel well they are almost ancient sf books :P but not the stuff to become classics I know what the books are based on..on the other hand..I don't try to find to much things in a book. There can always found more in books then the writer meant The question is..did the writer put these things in on purpose. When we talk about warriorbooks..the link to the Romans and Spartans is easily made of course, not? Because we compare everything we know with new things. That is how brains work. Beeing cute again?

Justme696 -> RE: Gorean's??? (2/25/2008 2:59:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aswad quote: ORIGINAL: Justme696 isn't in the bible the female submissive to the male too...throw in some sodom and gamorra...wars........add a planet and we have the gor books as kinky bible? Actually, that depends on your interpretation. It is not part of mine. What you are referring to is a part of the legacy of Saul of Tarsus, a man charged with bringing down Jesus, his followers, and his faith. A man who through questionable means came to be the dominant force in mainstream interpretations of the Christian faith. In my view, he was highly successful in carrying out what he was charged with. Similar conclusions are forwarded by Nietzsche in "The Anti-Christ." Health, al-Aswad. It isn't my interpretation. It was just an example how books can be read or seen in different ways. People read things and have there on view on it...that is why books are so great (or bad)

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