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RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/28/2008 9:29:35 PM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
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Its the mixture of both and all and one at the same time.
Its a sign of affection that the dominant cares enough to micromanage something like every single thing the person eats.
Its a total statement of control.
It allows for visible verifiable evidence of submission and the good things that can come from it.
And it creates an atmosphere of indirect submission where the slave spends  a large portion of their waking day wrapped in their submission:
every meal
every refused desert or snack
every trip to the grocery store
every purchase of water instead of soda
every new set of clothes bought to reflect weight loss
every time you go to the gym
every time you hear your stomach growl
and every time someone in your life says, "Hey you look great."

Thats got its finger on the pulse of what it is to be submissive.

(in reply to JockTrainee190)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/28/2008 9:35:19 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelslave77

Op I didnt real all your posts (I have a headache and your essays were a bit much for me at present ) but from what I have seen this idea happens a bit in reference to those who give themselves over as slaves (well at least I know of some rt who do this). And as a control kink it definately has merits (would drive me nutty but each to thier own)
I think if it is a Dom just trying to get a sub to lose weight it is going to be a lose lose situation and I dont mean weight. The only person you can lose weight for is yourself , because it isnt about the food you put in your body, it is much more about the reasons why you put that food in your body (and yes there are exceptions), so having someone restrict your intake and make you work out will work for a while, but in the end if you dont fix the the cause it will just continue to resurface.



Unless the experience effects you in such a fundamentally positive way that your habits change forever.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/28/2008 9:44:02 PM   
Nineveh


Posts: 1299
Joined: 2/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Its the mixture of both and all and one at the same time.
Its a sign of affection that the dominant cares enough to micromanage something like every single thing the person eats.
Its a total statement of control.
It allows for visible verifiable evidence of submission and the good things that can come from it.
And it creates an atmosphere of indirect submission where the slave spends  a large portion of their waking day wrapped in their submission:
every meal
every refused desert or snack
every trip to the grocery store
every purchase of water instead of soda
every new set of clothes bought to reflect weight loss
every time you go to the gym
every time you hear your stomach growl
and every time someone in your life says, "Hey you look great."

Thats got its finger on the pulse of what it is to be submissive.



Hee we have exactly why it appeals to me.  Thank you for stating it so well.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/28/2008 9:45:35 PM   
probablyknowme


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Joined: 9/19/2007
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See, I am going to chime in here as a "fat chick"! I have spent most of my adult life struggling with weight and food issues, and still have carried more weight around than is healthy. I have always thought that, given the right relationship, my weight and physical fitness would be something that I would gladly give up control over. I have always liked the idea of being held responsible for my health, my appearance, and yes *gasp* my weight. It doesn't seem like a big stretch to me for a D-type who controls so many other aspects of another person's life to control those hot topic issues.

kat

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(in reply to Leatherist)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/28/2008 9:49:56 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JockTrainee190

“So this is the deal.  I want to see you at 185 by the first of the month (4 weeks away, a 10-pound loss).  You are restricted to 1200 calories per day


Your trainer sucks.  He may have been a good top, but that's a recipe for burning muscle, not fat. 


quote:

I was allowed three meals a day and two pieces of fruit mid-morning and mid-afternoon.  I was to do my hour of cardio before eating anything in a day, and I was not permitted to eat after 8pm at night.  I was most certainly hungry almost all the time, since I was maintaining a very active workout schedule—daily workouts of at least 1.5 hours—but I knew he was correct, that such strictness was necessary.  I also was highly motivated by the idea that he and I would have sex once I “made weight.”


Okay, your trainer *really* sucks.  You needed to be getting more complex "slow burn" carbs like raw oats, sweet potato and brown rice and less fruit during a cutting cycle to even out your insulin/glucagon response instead of spiking it with simple sugars.  If you make one of your five daily meals nothing but simple sugars and a little fiber (eg, a piece of fruit) instead of being protein based, it's not productive at all for cutting fat.  Also, WTF was he thinking with 60 minutes of cardio plus 90 minutes on the weights AND running a basal kcal deficit of over 2,000?  Catabolism city, a recipe for losing as much muscle as fat. 


quote:

Having only lost 5 pounds in three weeks and therefore 5 pounds away from goal with only a week to lose it, he said to me casually, “Let’s see how you do with no food tomorrow.  Nothing for 24 hours.  And I think on days when you aren’t lifting you should do an extra half-hour of cardio, just to get that fat off you.”  [...] I almost passed out in the afternoon from very profound fatigue, but after sleeping for about 2 hours, the hunger pangs and exhaustion passed and the next morning I had actually lost 3 pounds on the scale. 


Of glycogen and muscle.  I promise.  Did I mention that your trainer sucks?  Body fat is the last thing to get burned with a routine like that.  This guy may have been a hot top, but he was a total waste of oxygen in the gym.  If you want to lose muscle and almost *no* fat, follow this routine and that is what you will get.  The scale means jack shit; you needed to check your body recomposition progress with calipers or better yet water displacement to get an accurate picture of how your percentages of lean body mass and fat mass were shifting.  Hint: if what you are doing is decreasing your lean body mass and not doing much to your body fat, you're doing it wrong. 


quote:

That was the point at which I was restricted to 1000 calories per day, with the standard one-day weekly fast, and my diet was now to be stripped of nearly all carbohydrates, leaving me as many vegetables as I wanted, along with at least 100 g of protein per day.  I was permitted coffee but no sugar.  Likewise, no more rice, potatoes, bread, starches of any kind, really—nothing but meat, broiled or grilled, vegetables/salad and water.  Lots of water—3-4 liters per day.  I was permitted one tablespoon of olive oil for my salad but no other fats of any kind –no butter, no nuts, no other oils.


Okay, the basic composition of this diet is fine, it's a SKD (standard ketogenic diet) for cutting, but WAY THE FUCK too low on the calories and the protein.  And fasting is Right Out if you want to lose fat and preserve lean body mass. 


quote:

When I achieved goal—10% bodyfat, at 179, with 161 lean pounds (losing some more muscle but more fat)—he made good on his promise and we began a sexual relationship since I was now “in acceptable condition.”


Ya know what?  You would have made 10% or lower bodyfat a hell of a lot faster and lost very little muscle if you had followed a proper bodybuilder's diet and workout routine instead of this insane and counterproductive crap.   Either your top intended to delay you along the way for sadistic fun, or he is abysmally ignorant about bodybuilding.


quote:

I began to become a little afraid of endangering my health—though I really was in the best shape of my life—and I also could feel that as bizarre and extreme as this had become—all of it a secret from everyone who knew us—it was also sort of losing the “oomph.”


Well, at least you started to get a clue even if he never had one.   I hope you didn't wreck your metabolism too badly.

Feel free to hop on over to the alt_fitness group over on Yahoo groups to chat more on the subject of pervy/GLBT oriented body recomposition; it's pretty much what the group is for, and I moderate it. 

(in reply to JockTrainee190)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/28/2008 9:58:18 PM   
Bloodrose88


Posts: 42
Joined: 10/27/2007
Status: offline
I agree with Najakcharmer.
As someone who has been severly anorexic, very heavy, and is now finally learning to what it means to be healthy, that diet is not healthy at all.
Restricting calories that much will make you lose muscle, and can eventually lead to hair loss and all sorts of aestheticallly unappealing things.
I am all for control of food by a dominant as long as it is done in a healthy and safe fashion.  Your story is neither healthy nor safe, and your obsession with it worries me.

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/28/2008 10:01:18 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bloodrose88

I agree with Najakcharmer.
As someone who has been severly anorexic, very heavy, and is now finally learning to what it means to be healthy, that diet is not healthy at all.
Restricting calories that much will make you lose muscle, and can eventually lead to hair loss and all sorts of aestheticallly unappealing things.
I am all for control of food by a dominant as long as it is done in a healthy and safe fashion.  Your story is neither healthy nor safe, and your obsession with it worries me.



I'll have to agree with the more patient approach here. Rome wasn't built in a day.

_____________________________

My shop is currently segueing into production mode.

I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/28/2008 10:03:57 PM   
SubbieOnWheels


Posts: 590
Joined: 12/14/2007
Status: offline
FR

I know I wouldn't mind a Dom who micromanaged my diet and exercise. Of course, he would have to first take a class or ten on diabetic nutrition and exercise. But I get so confused, and not being able to read all those tiny labels is a drawback. I am determined to eat right, and I want to lose a little weight, and I need to keep up my cardio-vascular fitness so I don't atrophy into an inert pile in my wheelchair. (That's why I still have a manual chair instead of the electric one people were trying to talk me into.)

_____________________________

Bethical
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(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/28/2008 10:15:24 PM   
mrscolden


Posts: 21
Joined: 8/12/2007
Status: offline
i quit smoking 6 months before i got married and once married i began to cook lovely dinners for my husband, consequently, i have gained 20 pounds over the past 18 months .my dom/husband says i gained it all in the right places (increased bust size) but i would love for him to put me on a regimented diet and exercise plan so i could return to my weight of 130. i know i would feel healthier and sexier

(in reply to angelslave77)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/28/2008 10:26:02 PM   
DarkDaddyZ


Posts: 805
Joined: 4/7/2006
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Can I get a burger now?

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(in reply to mrscolden)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/28/2008 10:43:22 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
Y'all are definitely welcome over on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alt_fitness to chat about fitness, nutrition, workouts, etc, in a BDSM/pervy/poly/GLBT context.  There would be no problem talking about (and maybe hooking up with) a micromanaging food/exercise topping situation - WITH the benefit of some intelligent, sane and rational resources for effective and healthy body recomposition.  If you're gonna play this game, play it right.  You can have just as much fun with healthier results. 

(in reply to SubbieOnWheels)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/29/2008 5:36:38 AM   
JockTrainee190


Posts: 10
Joined: 2/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

Its the mixture of both and all and one at the same time.
Its a sign of affection that the dominant cares enough to micromanage something like every single thing the person eats.
Its a total statement of control.
It allows for visible verifiable evidence of submission and the good things that can come from it.
And it creates an atmosphere of indirect submission where the slave spends  a large portion of their waking day wrapped in their submission:
every meal
every refused desert or snack
every trip to the grocery store
every purchase of water instead of soda
every new set of clothes bought to reflect weight loss
every time you go to the gym
every time you hear your stomach growl
and every time someone in your life says, "Hey you look great."

Thats got its finger on the pulse of what it is to be submissive.



Now THAT's what I'm talking about.  I didn't expect the experience to be such a thorough experience of submission but it was, in that it did indeed affect every aspect of my life. 

Certainly the ongoing experience of hunger, within our highly food-oriented culture, was quite an intense, low-level, constant rush, especially knowing I was "choosing" hunger to please the trainer with my discipline and my results. 

And yes, the very public nature of my physical transformation, to extremely lean and fit, was a subject of a great deal of comment by others, which created an atmosphere of semi-erotic exhibitionism, since no one knew really the "back story" to my getting so lean, and that was/still is an incredible turn-on to share with a top.  (As you can see, even from the discussion here, EVERYONE has an opinion and I've learned that extreme food control and imposed weight loss elicits strong anxities and reactions, positive and negative, which is part of the turn-on for me:  "oh my God, he made you do WHAT?  And you DID?")

As for whether or not the diet was "effective," I think my story made it clear that for each of us, that was a somewhat secondary issue.  I myself wasn't/am not even now too concerned with whether or not I lose "muscle mass" in that I'm a big stocky guy who is a long-distance cyclist, not only could I afford to lose some muscle mass, but in some ways, getting less bulked, that is to say, skinnier---less muscle and less fat--would improve my riding.  For all the extremes of the dieting, I remain in excellent health, so no worries, girls, which is why I'm posting to see if any of the guys on here would be into it with me.  The only real negative impact is that a low-carb regime makes it impossible to do long-distance riding.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/29/2008 5:43:21 AM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline
This is a great 'control' thing, that said, as with most great control things, its very labor intensive on the Top.  Personally, I wouldn't do it unless I were really concerned about the health of mine -- (eg, something life threatening).  Funnily enough, I've started shoving gummy Flintstone vitamins down my boi's throat in the morning -- its become a game and I have yet to get real serious about it, but I know she's just NOT eating healthy etc and I want her around so I've started small.

I do not comtemplate the very tight strictness that you mention.

That said, I watch the personal trainers endlessly at my gym and always think with great amusement that its the best job in the world for a Dominant... and I want to do it... making people do things they hate, including just standing there until you're ready to give them the honor of your attention.  LOL

good luck.. thanks for posting this, its interesting

(in reply to JockTrainee190)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/29/2008 6:30:49 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
Yummmmmmmmm,
personal trainers and physical therapists
the natural jobs for a sadist

gimme more, move through the pain, you can do it, make me happy

lovely

(in reply to Madame4a)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/29/2008 6:41:16 AM   
pineapplesub


Posts: 39
Joined: 11/23/2004
Status: offline
I had a free session with a personal trainer, and I'm pretty sure she had to be a sadist.  My thighs were charlie horsing by the end... I'm not sure I'm made to do 8 sets of 12 squats in between incline treadmill walking...

Anyways, I find that when I have a Dom that checks in on my food/exercise log, I'm more motivated than when I'm going solo.  I'm more interested in the lifestyle changes than the crazy diets, though.

(in reply to Kana)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/29/2008 6:43:32 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
Greetings Jocktrainee,
 
your essays here have been a fascinating read
 
i tend to be very health minded myself and insist on this with a partner, however for me - the intense focus you speak of would pull me away from the bigger picture of life that i have so i don't think i would want to be dominated in this particular way to the extent you are.
 
i would also venture to say (not that this is wrong) that the dominance you seek with this is self-serving of a fetish. Which, in a symbiotic relationship is just fine, but i would hesitate to go with this as being an example of intense submission...
 
Again, i am not saying you personally have said this but it is an undercurrent i am picking up from the responses in this thread~
 
peace of sadorexia,
           j

_____________________________

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(in reply to JockTrainee190)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/29/2008 6:45:17 AM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader


i would also venture to say (not that this is wrong) that the dominance you seek with this is self-serving of a fetish. Which, in a symbiotic relationship is just fine, but i would hesitate to go with this as being an example of intense submission...
 


Bingo... I got the same feeling...

(in reply to dawntreader)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/29/2008 7:01:53 AM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
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Interesting topic. Speaking as, yet another, fat chick I would agree to this type of submission on the basis that it would make me healthier and therefor more up to the challenges of a scene.  I would have no interest in food/weight control simply to be the "ideal" image society has pushed on us. That's BS and I want none of it.  However, to have a Master who would do this in order to mold me into better physical condidtion so as to enjoy our play more would be the ultimate surrender. I am only now starting to understand just how much I like the idea of allowing complete control....even in this area.

(in reply to probablyknowme)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/29/2008 7:09:16 AM   
Madame4a


Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline
I'll buy if you'll share with me...


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Food and weight control, sadorexia - 2/29/2008 9:04:10 AM   
BlackPhx


Posts: 3432
Joined: 11/8/2006
Status: offline
In response to your original question I suspect the reason you don't see a lot of sadorexia spoken about online is because most people either experience it in a full BDSM relationship or..don't know it as a fetish but indulge it at Weight Loss Farms, Gyms and with Personal Trainers.  The only thing generally lacking there is the sexual aspect but they still get the satisfaction as well as the results..

poenkitten

(in reply to JockTrainee190)
Profile   Post #: 40
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