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RE: Relationship Between Doms - 2/29/2008 7:09:07 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		OK let's see if I can get things clear here. You are a man who has previously been vanilla. You have met up with a woman who identifies as a Mistress, and has some subs, including some overseas. In the space of less than 3 months, SHE has decided that you would make a luverly Dom for her. It appears she has taught you fuck all about the lifestyle and is expecting you to magically leap into this role. As well as that, she also tells you with one breath to Dominate her and with the other, tells you to fuck off as she will be making all the important decisions ie importing subs, having sex etc. Is this the situation? Have I got this much right?

Assuming that I have then My best advice to you is RUN! She is not going about this with any insight or intelligence ... therefore, not a good idea to get involved. If you are genuinely interested in the lifestyle, then meet a wider group of people, read a lot, get yourself educated a bit first.

Now I say this NOT because she wants to be a Mistress and still have a Dom ... that describes Me! That's a perfectly legit way to live. It's how she's trying to go about this that I object to and have serious doubts about. I think at best you are her new toy and she will discard you once she is bored. If she can't organise herself better than this, she needs her head read (and she'll not be much cop as a Mistress either!).

Get out and good luck!
Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to Fox108)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 2/29/2008 8:29:24 PM   
MistressFaye1


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dmon


My suggestion. Try to learn some submissive empathy. You already want to make her happy, but you have to realize she won't be happy till your pulling her strings. I suggest you start calling the pace you learn at. Showing disapproval when she does something you don't like. If she want's to be a sub so damn much, then she needs to think about you first. Tell her that, and if it doesn't work out well that way, maybe you two need to have a talk about whats going on.

Really a Dom or Domme understands that there submissive wants to be put second in alot of things. So put yourself first. Don't think about something you'd both like to do. Think about doing something you'd like to do, and tell her thats what your doing. If she wants to make you happy, then she'll do it. And if she's submissive she'll want to make you happy. Try those hats on.. both of you. One or the other might find they don't like it so much. Then you'll have your answer, and you can find the best path to take.

Hope that helps some. Thought it's really just my 2cents.  I know I"m responding on the wrong board, but I really don't want to go look for this anywhere else.

Wondering what I'm doing, always. (my Motto)

D


Dmon,

I don't think Fox was saying she wanted to be submissive per se... looks like a little topping from the bottom,  Her kink without disrupting her submissive's flow if he is not capable of doing so, so to speak. 

Obviously from what Fox said, she wants him to "be by herside" and as her partner, equal---maybe topping each other.  Nothing here says she wants to be his submissive on any level.  Simply allowing him to top her because it's what she wants does not make her a submissive. I really doubt that she will be happy when he is pulling her strings because I doubt she will allow that to happen.  If he were to continue to try to "pull her strings", make demands on her because he doesn't like what she's doing, or try to change who she is seems to be causing the problem.

His wanting to try to be a Dom doesn't seem to be something he is truly interested in at all.  He states he's "strictly" vanilla, his post said the Mistress said she saw some traits.  He asked her to mentor him and not vice versa.

If they are to have a relationship there needs to be negoiation (of course).  But my question is why should he expect her to stop doing what she has been prior to meeting him and they are just in the beginning stages of the relationship.

We know from other posts, vanilla/BDSM couples can work but they are rare at best and acceptance has to be there.

Folks need to decide what they will and will not tolerant and understand that if a compromise can't be reached, it may be time to look at being the best of friends vs, having a "stricltly vanilla man--trying on the Dom shoes, trying to make a relationship with a lifestyle, established Mistress.

They both can be in a win/win situation but someone will have to give in to or give up something.  It shouldn't be that way but that's what happens when folks try to box someone in.

Faye





_____________________________

You can put away your masquerade
You won't ever have to be afraid of Me
Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

(in reply to Dmon)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 2/29/2008 8:54:27 PM   
MistressFaye1


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

OK let's see if I can get things clear here. You are a man who has previously been vanilla. You have met up with a woman who identifies as a Mistress, and has some subs, including some overseas. In the space of less than 3 months, SHE has decided that you would make a luverly Dom for her. It appears she has taught you fuck all about the lifestyle and is expecting you to magically leap into this role. As well as that, she also tells you with one breath to Dominate her and with the other, tells you to fuck off as she will be making all the important decisions ie importing subs, having sex etc. Is this the situation? Have I got this much right?

Assuming that I have then My best advice to you is RUN! She is not going about this with any insight or intelligence ... therefore, not a good idea to get involved. If you are genuinely interested in the lifestyle, then meet a wider group of people, read a lot, get yourself educated a bit first.

Now I say this NOT because she wants to be a Mistress and still have a Dom ... that describes Me! That's a perfectly legit way to live. It's how she's trying to go about this that I object to and have serious doubts about. I think at best you are her new toy and she will discard you once she is bored. If she can't organise herself better than this, she needs her head read (and she'll not be much cop as a Mistress either!).

Get out and good luck!
Maam Jay aka violet[A]


Well if this were the case I would agree 100%.  Given the information provided I doubt this is the case.  It seems to me he is responding to what she observed in him and has decided to "check out the lifestyle" to see what it's about.

How does one suddenly decide he's a Dom and yet describes himself as "strictly vanilla"?  I agree that he should read, join a community, club so that he can become more aware and learn more about it.

To say she has a problem is judging her.  I didn't see where he said she wanted him to be her Dom but that she might enjoy him, as a "vanilla" man with some dom-like qualities being the top to her bottom.

Three months is not time enough to know someone enough for either of them to completely change what they're doing or their lives. I don't see where she "pushed" him into the lifestyle. 

There are too many unknowns here to say what the real deal is.  I do however agree that if what you stated is the reality, he should run for the hills.

I ask you this... is it possible that he initially accepted things but as they progressed he's the one that finds he doesn't like the way things are going?  From his other post, Fox said she told him from the beginning what her situation was.

Faye

_____________________________

You can put away your masquerade
You won't ever have to be afraid of Me
Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

(in reply to MaamJay)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 2/29/2008 9:03:04 PM   
undergroundsea


Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fox108


I sense you are a vanilla man who has begun a romantic relationship with a domme who has introduced you to BDSM. It seems that you have traits she likes in a lover and wishes to have you as either a partner or, more likely, an alpha sub who is dominant to her subs but submissive to her and tops her from time to time.

Because you wish to please her, it seems either you do have a dash of submission in you, or that you are very fond of her and like to please as an expression of fondness or towards wanting to earn her approval. The comments about her play with others despite your objections to such play have me wonder if you are more interested in her than she is in you, and you are afraid to lose her, which she knows.

If she needs a strong man to ground her, I am not convinced the current situation will fulfill that need. I say so because you stated situations with which you were uncomfortable--reasonable objections by a vanilla man with respect to a woman he was dating if the relationship can expect exclusivity--and she did not entertain your objections. You accepted this outcome.

I do not know what you should do because I do not know enough about the situation. Perhaps there is a mismatch in expectations about whether the relationship is ready to be exclusive. Perhaps she is poly, or otherwise likes to have multiple partners for play to fulfill different needs. Perhaps she is focused on her wants only and how others can help her achieve these wants.

In any case, I think it would help you to be clear within yourself about what you want.

Do you want to be dominant? If so, I am not sure how well you will be able to achieve such a role in this relationship until it is clear that you are willing to stand your ground for your boundaries and are willing to walk away.

How do you feel about a poly relationship? Are you willing to learn more about open relationships to see if your reservations are simply from societal conditioning, or whether they come from a conflict with your philosophy about a romantic relationship? What if the poly relationship also allowed you other play partners?

Do you want to be submissive? If so, what aspects of the current situation trouble you? Is it just the play outside the relationship? If so and you are not flexible about this matter, a submissive can expect a relationship that is exclusive. This expectation, however, might mean you two are incompatible.

Or do you simply want a romantic relationship and are participating in BDSM reluctantly to sustain this romantic relationship? If so, odds are you two are incompatible and time will eventually have its way. In this case you might consider how much you should invest in this relationship.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 2/29/2008 9:19:41 PM >

(in reply to Fox108)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 2/29/2008 9:08:46 PM   
MistressFaye1


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fox108


I sense you are a vanilla man who has begun a romantic relationship with a domme who has introduced you to BDSM. It seems that you have traits she likes in a lover and wishes to have you as either a partner or, more likely, an alpha sub who is dominant to her subs but submissive to her and tops her from time to time.

Because you wish to please her, it seems either you do have a dash of submission in you, or that you are very fond of her and like to please as an expression of fondness or towards wanting to earn her approval. The comments about her play with others despite your objections to such play have me wonder if you are more interested in her than she is in you, and you are afraid to lose her, which she knows.

If she needs a strong man to ground her, I am not convinced the current situation will fulfill that need. I say so because you stated situations with which you were uncomfortable--reasonable objections by a vanilla man with respect to a woman he was dating if the relationship can expect exclusivity--and she did not entertain your objections. You accepted this outcome.

I do not know what you should do because I do not know enough about the situation. Perhaps there is a mismatch in expectations about whether the relationship is ready to be exclusive. Perhaps she is poly, or otherwise likes to have multiple partners for play to fulfill different needs. Perhaps she is focused on her wants only and how others can help her achieve these wants.

In any case, I think it would help you to be clear within yourself about what you want.

Do you want to be dominant? Do you want to be submissive? Or do you just want a romantic relationship and are humoring BDSM for the sake of a romantic relationship you wish to have? How do you feel about poly relationship? Are you willing to learn more about open relationships to see if your reservations are simply from societal conditioning, or whether they come from a conflict with your philosophy about romantic relationship? What if the poly relationship also allowed you other play partners?

If you want to be dominant, I am not sure how well you will be able to achieve such a role in this relationship until it is clear that you are willing to stand your ground for your boundaries and are willing to walk away.

If you want to be submissive, what aspects of the current situation trouble you? Is it just the play outside the relationship? If so and you are not flexible about this matter, a submissive can expect a relationship that is exclusive. This expectation, however, might mean you two are incompatible.

If you simply want a romantic relationship and are participating in BDSM reluctantly to sustain this romantic relationship, odds are you two are incompatible and time will eventually have its way. In this case you might consider how much you should invest in this relationship.

Cheers,

Sea


Sea... once again!  Great post!!!!!!!!  This sums it up quite well and I hope for Fox's sake... above all other posts that he really reads and considers all that you've said in this post.

It poses some great questions and insight without being judgmental towards either of them.

Faye

_____________________________

You can put away your masquerade
You won't ever have to be afraid of Me
Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

(in reply to undergroundsea)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 2/29/2008 9:15:24 PM   
DragonLadysFire


Posts: 167
Joined: 12/8/2007
Status: offline 		....hmmm lots of good advice for you here already.

_____________________________

A dragon may breathe fire, but that doesn't mean you will be burned.



(in reply to PsyVamp)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 2/29/2008 9:18:44 PM   
MissMagnolia


Posts: 3636
Status: offline 		K, I saw ice cream, Ron posting and butterscotch topping and had to call in. Are we making an ice cream sundae with delicious Ron in the middle? Can I get first lick please??

OP, You either are or your not. It's pointless trying to be something your just not. There is another thread by one of the ladies here who is going through an awful time, because her man tried hard to accept something he just couldn't accept in the end.

It's tragic, but you need to accept that this lady your seeing is a dominant who needs another dominant. If you can't be that, it's better (and easier for everyone) to end it now and go no further.

_____________________________

if at first you dont succeed..then skydiving isnt for you

Resident Whip Cracker AND Resident Orbs Of Joy.


(in reply to MistressFaye1)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 3/1/2008 2:21:14 AM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fox108

She also just had one of her subies from overseas come and live  with her even though I told her that I didn't want this to happen. 

And she has said if she wants to have intercourse, if she feels she will, even though I have said no.



Fox

She already does not respect your simple (but significant) wish for fidelity.  How will you earn her respect as her Dom?

This lady is collecting men and playing them off against one another, using whatever tall stories it takes to keep you all on the hook. This promise to train you as her own Dom so she can switch is the biggest load of nonsense I have ever heard.  This tramp will expose you to STDs and worse. 

On the positive side, you are a curious potential Dominant in New York!  There are so many other single, kinky women in that city .

Go along to TES, DFS and any other local BDSM community groups, meet lots of nice people and learn a lot more about BDSM that way.  You don't need Miss Sleazy Pants as a mentor or a girlfriend.

The funny thing is, she will probably only respect you as a man with some balls  after you tell her you shove her cheap and sleazy, two-timing, Domme-Dom-malesub fantasy where the sun doesn't shine

PS:  On re-reading my post, I am a Miss Cranky Pants myself, tonight! 


< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 3/1/2008 2:30:39 AM >

_____________________________

<----- Corset, mask and collar designed and manufactured by metalsmith Karl H, chromed and lined in black suede. Masks and collars available from http://www.lucreziadesade.com.au/default.html. Corsets custom made only

(in reply to Fox108)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 3/1/2008 6:09:38 AM   
MistressFaye1


Posts: 276
Joined: 10/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCfromMelbourne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fox108

She also just had one of her subies from overseas come and live  with her even though I told her that I didn't want this to happen. 

And she has said if she wants to have intercourse, if she feels she will, even though I have said no.



Fox

She already does not respect your simple (but significant) wish for fidelity.  How will you earn her respect as her Dom?

This lady is collecting men and playing them off against one another, using whatever tall stories it takes to keep you all on the hook. This promise to train you as her own Dom so she can switch is the biggest load of nonsense I have ever heard.  This tramp will expose you to STDs and worse. 

On the positive side, you are a curious potential Dominant in New York!  There are so many other single, kinky women in that city .

Go along to TES, DFS and any other local BDSM community groups, meet lots of nice people and learn a lot more about BDSM that way.  You don't need Miss Sleazy Pants as a mentor or a girlfriend.

The funny thing is, she will probably only respect you as a man with some balls  after you tell her you shove her cheap and sleazy, two-timing, Domme-Dom-malesub fantasy where the sun doesn't shine

PS:  On re-reading my post, I am a Miss Cranky Pants myself, tonight! 



I don't gather that she was the one that insisted she mentor him, that was his choice to ask that of her.

So... you're telling me that folks that are in poly relationships are sleazy sluts???? I would also like to think there is sexual intercourse, protection is used.

New York... wow land of open mindedness!  What happens if in his journey, he meets "submissives" and wants to have a poly relationship.  Does that place him in the sleazy column that you placed her in??????

Making judgments without all the facts or based on his POV only isn't fair.  Would your opinion differ if this was a male Dom that wasn't willing to stop what he was already doing prior to meeting a vanilla woman?  We're talking about knowing this woman only 3 MONTHS and he's trying to box her in based on what HE wants???

Faye

Faye

_____________________________

You can put away your masquerade
You won't ever have to be afraid of Me
Open up your eyes and see what is in store
I must the One that you are searching for.

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 3/1/2008 6:50:16 AM   
Fox108


Posts: 10
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHathor

...you have a Mistress and you are vanilla...
 
ok I need more coffee.
I just wanted to clarify, I am not in a BDSM relationship with this Mistress, we have connected on the vanilla side.  And she is exposing me to the life style.  And it has been difficult for me to comprehend, due to my preconcieved ideas

(in reply to LadyHathor)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 3/1/2008 6:57:27 AM   
Fox108


Posts: 10
Joined: 2/12/2008
Status: offline 		The other part of the puzzle that I have fail to mention is that she lives in Georgia and I live in NYC.  I think was an error to not include

(in reply to PsyVamp)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 3/1/2008 4:30:19 PM   
MsCfromMelbourne


Posts: 777
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline 		Hiya Faye

Reading Fox's original post, he is concerned she is moving too fast to mentor him.  No mention that he asked for that mentoring.  He didn't ask to be turned into her Dom so he could be her plaything (?!).

This lady in Georgia is courting lots of guys at once, including a least one who has visited from overseas and another from another State - Fox.  To call her man juggling a "poly relationship" is an insult to people in committed poly relationships. 

I think her two (ten?)-timing behaviour is sleazy, but I did not call her a slut. 

Fox wants monogamy.  I hope he meets a great lady who also values monogamy.  Such women do exist, even in hedonistic New York   If Fox wants to switch to poly, I hope he doesn't try to force his new belief system on innocent monogamous people the way this lady is doing - that would be sleazy in my opinion.

To answer your question, should a Dom who plays around (affectionately known as a player) change if he meets a vanilla woman?  Sure, if he wants to.  But if not, should he then manipulate a vanilla woman to put up with his philandering and train herself to be a Domme for his pleasure (?!!), on the promise that then they might have a "good relationship"? 

Of course not.  It is just as sleazy and disrespectful IMO.  It is not poly.   Genuine poly  people do not prey on the loneliness of others by demanding they abandon their sexual values as a condition of the relationship.  They negotiate willing consent.

< Message edited by MsCfromMelbourne -- 3/1/2008 4:40:43 PM >

_____________________________

<----- Corset, mask and collar designed and manufactured by metalsmith Karl H, chromed and lined in black suede. Masks and collars available from http://www.lucreziadesade.com.au/default.html. Corsets custom made only

(in reply to MistressFaye1)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 3/2/2008 8:55:01 AM   
LadyIvory


Posts: 1
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		I was told by Fox that he posted on this site.  I created this account to clarify some things. 
 
Fox and I met online and his first words to me were, "I'm looking for someone to do me!"  I pointed out to him how disrespectful it was to begin a conversation like that with a woman if he's really looking for someone to have a serious relationship with.  After he apologized, we continued the conversation and found we had things in common. 
 
I told him that I was a Domme the first night we talked.  He wondered about what it entailed and that was the beginning of him learning about BDSM, the D/s side of things more than the kink side.  So he knew from day one about me.  I also explained to him that someone not in the lifestyle may not understand some things.  He read some of the things I recommended and some that he found on his own.  At one point, quite recently, he asked me if I would mentor him as he explored the lifestyle on his on.  I agreed to do so. 
 
I recommened that he find a community or participate in some of the numerous activities that NY has to offer.  He's done this...  I have never expressed to him that I wanted him to become a Dom for me.  A little topping from the bottom never hurts and that was the extent of his "Dom-ness" as it relates to me. 
 
We've seen each other twice in the three months that we've known each other.  After the first meeting Fox considered himself in a "committed" relationship.  This was done without discussion and I didn't know he saw it that way until he began to set limits on me.  I have never lied to or mislead him in anyway.
 
I do not have any collared submissives/slaves but I do belong to a club in the community and I do have play partners.  This has been another thing he hasn't come to understand.  As for having intercourse with them... my comment to him that I will if I wanted to stems from his attempts to tell me what he won't tolerate.  I told him that I accpeted that and understood that but that he needed to understand that he doesn't have the right to tell me what I can and cannot do at this stage in our relationship.
 
As for moving someone from overseas in----  I've known this particular gentleman, who happens to be a submissive far longer than I've known Fox.  He's here for a visit.  We met here in GA but he had to return home after the New Year when his mother became ill.
 
Fox is the one rushing himself and like some have stated in their posts, I've told him not to rush into the scene as a way to keep me because if it goes against his way of thinking (which he admits that it does) then he shouldn't do it because it isn't WHO he is. 
 
I have not made any requests of him, put any limits on what he can and can't do.  I take that back... the ONLY requests I've asked of him was to take his time so that we BOTH can know each other better rather than rushing into a committed relationship with each other.
 
I've been open and honest with him from the beginning and we've had several conflicts in this short period of time and not all of them have been about the lifestyle.  I also was told by him that he did not show his true self to me after I told him I felt we needed to be in a platonic relationship. (I know inquiring minds want to know why but I'm leaving it at that.)
 
I am not having "intercourse" with anyone at this time and yes I did say that I will if I desire to do so.
 
I doubt seriously that anyone with established relationships already would drop them simply because a vanilla, they barely know, that wanted to have a committed relationship with them, told them to.
 
I understand he is confused and has turned to the boards for advice.  I've asked him over and over again why he wants to be in this relationship if it hurts him so.  He's putting himself through all of this turmoil, not me.  I would like to think he'd openly admit that here as he's done so in our conversations.
 
Thanks to all that gave him advice and guidence.  He appreciates it and so do I.
 
Ivory

< Message edited by LadyIvory -- 3/2/2008 8:59:10 AM >

(in reply to MsCfromMelbourne)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 5/27/2008 11:41:11 AM   
sub4u2control


Posts: 2
Joined: 3/12/2008
Status: offline 		I really don't think you have a clue of what tis is all about " i have a Mistress but I am  Vanilla , and not only that I see that you have posted a profile seeking a submissive .I must admit I do appreciate your honesty as you have admitted you have preconceived notions  it  is quite obvious . take your take and be true to your self about what it really is that you seek 

(in reply to Fox108)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 5/27/2008 11:44:39 AM   
sub4u2control


Posts: 2
Joined: 3/12/2008
Status: offline 		Just for the record I am not vanilla disregard the ice cream cone  

(in reply to Fox108)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 5/27/2008 2:35:33 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I think you're saying that she's poly and you're monogamous. Only you can decide if you're okay with this.
However, what about if you say fine, and you can sleep with other women whenever you want as well. Would she be okay with this?

Mostly I don't see her caring about your needs. She appears to be trying to change you to fit her needs as opposed to having found someone like that to begin with. She can ask for whatever she wants, but you don't have to agree. And if she really wants this to be a dom/domme couple, then she needs to make your happiness a priority.

I get the feeling that she just wants a sub who will top under her direction, which is a very different kettle of fish. Only you can decide if you want to buy what she's selling. You do have the right to say no.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to PsyVamp)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 5/27/2008 2:54:13 PM   
Wickad


Posts: 428
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you Ivory for clearing this whole thread up.

I had thought it might be something like you described and thus was unwilling to jump to conclusions before hearing both sides of the story.

I hope Fox takes the time to figure out what he really wants, determine where his limits are, and make the choices that are best for him.

Wickad

(in reply to LadyIvory)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 3/10/2010 2:07:42 PM   
destine13


Posts: 1
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		You wrote me and have me blocked. Do you want to talk to me?

(in reply to Wickad)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Relationship Between Doms - 3/10/2010 3:11:49 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		This thread is 2 years old...........

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to destine13)
Profile   Post #: 39
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