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RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 8:20:34 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Suppose she spoke perfect English and yet were 100% dependent on you financially.  You could never "tell" for sure if she loved you, or if part of her attraction to you was economic because she was a kept woman.

There are, however, ways to tell whether a woman really had an orgasm.  Moans and shudders can be faked.  Ignore them.  (Unless you don't really want to know.)  Does she get goosebumps?  Is she lightly mentally disoriented for a couple minutes?  Does she squirt vaginally, or otherwise produce a lot of non-urine liquid?  (Clear and sweet, instead of yellow and salty.)  Do her neck and shoulders get flushed?  Everyone's different, so none of these may apply to her, but something will.  The point is that orgasm produces involuntary physical responses, and those are a lot harder to pretend.



One pretty universal one is vaginal spasms rapid clenching and releasing that really cant be faked very easily at all even for someone with a hell of a lot of practice.


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RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 8:49:57 AM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

 She now calls me Master, which is cute.
If You expect more...stop paying her...see if she thinks it's cute.  Maybe You luck out, stranger things have happened.  Wouldn't it be great to read THAT success story on the boards?  But protect Yourself.  She is providing a paid service at the time.  As much as i would love for the guy who fixes my cable to just pop by and fix things around the house for free...it ain't gonna happen.(well there was the one guy....) If You confuse goods and services with Dominance and submission, and she is all about being a paid sub...the communication breakdown is about alot more than language issues.  Btw, i often find, coming from a multi-lingual family, that most speak suprisingly good English whenever money is discussed...so maybe if you tell her her "Nyet more money, I tie you for free"...she'll let You know what's what...

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 8:55:13 AM   
HandSolo


Posts: 323
Joined: 11/22/2007
Status: offline 		Should be pretty easy to tell. Try whatever you like, and if her Russian pimp shows up with some friends, and breaks your pelvis with a mallet, she wasn't into it.

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RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 8:56:46 AM   
lronitulstahp


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Joined: 10/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HandSolo

Should be pretty easy to tell. Try whatever you like, and if her Russian pimp shows up with some friends, and breaks your pelvis with a mallet, she wasn't into it.
hmmm...there is that.....

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 8:58:08 AM   
Sundowner


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Joined: 3/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Wait until after she's gotten her green card and has learned English. If she still likes you then, it's for real.

Even if she wasn't a sex worker, the language barrier by itself is such that neither of you knows who the other one is. You are putting the words in your fantasy onto her. She can't say anything wrong because she can't say anything at all to you. And vice versa.


Is easy after one's made the fuck-up to see the fuck-up - I should have left out the escort bit and ppl would have focussed more on the query. Or explained that it saves me time and emotional problem to play with escorts (who are actually real ppl and great fun) and that I've years ago lost count of how many I've known. Many of them are now long term friends.

So I'm one of the world's leading bloody experts in reading fake orgasms and gold-diggers in the commercial sex community and understanding that an escort's job is to please. But I forget that others are unlikely to be familiar with this world and sometimes just see the escort aspect - sometimes just with shock horror.  

But I'm not good in the d/s community - certainly not as good as I'd like - and so constructive help really does help.

Thanks for hitting the nub of the post, not the background. You focus on the problem exactly. So forgetting the escort bit, which I can handle, she's just a nice and intelligent girl and I'm a reasonably experienced and intelligent man - but I'm certainly not so bloody marvellous that I can't learn more and don't value help from others - especially the sort of comments Red makes.


(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 9:09:44 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		You were asking if she is a sub or a slave, as her capacity as an escort mitigates that there is no questions. the nature of sub and slave is about choice she is providing a service. You can find pro-subs which may actually be a better way to go. All you can do is ask if shes comfy with something. she isnt your sub/slave she is being paid to be that way, the fact that she is an escort is pivitol. Also the fact that she cant communicate puts you ina  dangerous position in that you could hurt her, as i would imagine she is desperate for money she wouldnt complain, If it was me i would go for a pro-sub who WILL have limits, an english speaking one who you can communicate with. Dont be upset if you dont like the advice that you are given.

edited to add - also how you can know shes nice/intelligent or any of these things when you cant communicate with her is beyond me


< Message edited by colouredin -- 3/2/2008 9:11:38 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 11:17:53 AM   
CalifChick


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Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

 Hell, i know a couple girls in Orlando that would LOVELOVELOVE to be paid in British Pounds for that sorta thing...just saying


I'm so crushed... I never knew... You mean I can get a british pound(ing) and... get paid for it too?

Cali

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 11:21:53 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		She's an escort, and apparently very good at it :)

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RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 1:16:37 PM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

 Hell, i know a couple girls in Orlando that would LOVELOVELOVE to be paid in British Pounds for that sorta thing...just saying


I'm so crushed... I never knew... You mean I can get a british pound(ing) and... get paid for it too?

Cali
yuh-huh...

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 2:43:21 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		See if she's interested in doing it for free. That'd be a big indication as to if she's serious about it or not or if she's conducting a lucrative business. Be aware that you run the risk of insulting her, though, if she's a professional. You also run the risk of misleading her about what you're offering.

My real advice is to find someone from wherever you're from and take her with you to east eurpoe. You'll be able to communicate then.

Master Fire


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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 6:01:58 PM   
Tapestry


Posts: 226
Joined: 10/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Wait until after she's gotten her green card and has learned English. If she still likes you then, it's for real.

Even if she wasn't a sex worker, the language barrier by itself is such that neither of you knows who the other one is. You are putting the words in your fantasy onto her. She can't say anything wrong because she can't say anything at all to you. And vice versa.


Is easy after one's made the fuck-up to see the fuck-up - I should have left out the escort bit and ppl would have focussed more on the query. Or explained that it saves me time and emotional problem to play with escorts (who are actually real ppl and great fun) and that I've years ago lost count of how many I've known. Many of them are now long term friends.

So I'm one of the world's leading bloody experts in reading fake orgasms and gold-diggers in the commercial sex community and understanding that an escort's job is to please. But I forget that others are unlikely to be familiar with this world and sometimes just see the escort aspect - sometimes just with shock horror.  

But I'm not good in the d/s community - certainly not as good as I'd like - and so constructive help really does help.

Thanks for hitting the nub of the post, not the background. You focus on the problem exactly. So forgetting the escort bit, which I can handle, she's just a nice and intelligent girl and I'm a reasonably experienced and intelligent man - but I'm certainly not so bloody marvellous that I can't learn more and don't value help from others - especially the sort of comments Red makes.



OK Sundowner,
Let's forget the escort thing, and get to what your question is: How to tell if someone who apparently enjoys bottoming, at least in a gentle way so far, could be an actual submissive/slave personality, and if so, how to tell the difference between sub and slave.

First of all, do not ever confuse a bottom or a masochist with being submissive/slave.  I know far too many people who enjoy pain, but do not have a submissive bone in their bodies.

So, based on what you told us, I don't think there's any indication yet that she is submissive.  She seems to enjoy bottoming activities.

There really isn't a power exchange dynamic in place yet to give you any more clues. 

So, my suggestion is to continue to enjoy yourself, and if you aren't sure what type of play she will enjoy then watch her body language, breathing, heart-rate, skin temperature, etc.  You will know from those things if she's in distress or if she is enjoying the activity. 

If you want that deeper relationship of D/s or even M/s, I do think someone is going to have to learn the other person's language.

The last part of your question - the difference between submissive and slave - is a topic that you will never find a consensus of opinion here about.  Do a search of the topic and you will find numerous threads dedicated to being the final word on that topic, and yet, there is no final word.  Everyone has their own opinion, some will try to force that opinion upon you and call it fact, but there is no factual answer to the question.  Labels are only words, whether I call myself slave, submissive, or Princess means nothing.  How my partner and I live out our own definitions of our labels is between the two of us.  Just because someone here says I am or I am not a slave, has no meaning for me.  I am what Sir and I want me to be, and labels that are applied do not mean a thing.

So please, enjoy yourself, don't worry about the label, and just explore what pleases you.

Blessings and Peace

_____________________________

Tapestry

Daddy's Little Girl

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but the moments that take our breath away."

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(in reply to Sundowner)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 7:06:58 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

There isn't a difference but really... she's an escort. Her job is make you think she's perfect for you. She may be a slave/sub but the bottom line is that she isn't yours unless you pay and she's only yours for the time you've paid for.


and if she is doing her job well her pimp is happy as well, but if she does not make you happy her pimp will not be happy either and she  gets punished if the $ do not turn up, he is the Dom she has to answer to in the end..... and if she understands the word master... it is likely she played the sub for hire game before


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/2/2008 10:07:02 PM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696


she is an escort..how does one knows she likes it really and doesn't play it?
females can even fake orgasm..we males are never sure!!!!!!


The ONLY thing I AM sure of, is I will eventually die. (i hope)

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/3/2008 10:36:07 AM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

Is easy after one's made the fuck-up to see the fuck-up - I should have left out the escort bit and ppl would have focussed more on the query. Or explained that it saves me time and emotional problem to play with escorts (who are actually real ppl and great fun) and that I've years ago lost count of how many I've known. Many of them are now long term friends.

So I'm one of the world's leading bloody experts in reading fake orgasms and gold-diggers in the commercial sex community and understanding that an escort's job is to please. But I forget that others are unlikely to be familiar with this world and sometimes just see the escort aspect - sometimes just with shock horror.  

But I'm not good in the d/s community - certainly not as good as I'd like - and so constructive help really does help.

Thanks for hitting the nub of the post, not the background. You focus on the problem exactly. So forgetting the escort bit, which I can handle, she's just a nice and intelligent girl and I'm a reasonably experienced and intelligent man - but I'm certainly not so bloody marvellous that I can't learn more and don't value help from others - especially the sort of comments Red makes.




The escort bit is pretty damn important. I have no horror or shock about it, but the facts are the facts. How much you pay her depends on how well she convinces you she loves doing this. And she may indeed enjoy being tied up and playing at being your sub, particularly since you are paying her. But, and it's a big but, that doesn't mean she would want to be your sub.

Ask her to do it for free and then come back. Otherwise, how the hell do you actually know she is intelligent if you can't speak with her?

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 3/3/2008 10:37:47 AM >

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(in reply to Sundowner)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/3/2008 11:40:02 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		There is a lot of language things on the net. Learn a few russian words. That will impress the lady. There are even free programs that will let you write in russian and translate russian to english. Work with her on the language. If she is that interested in you she will work with you.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/3/2008 11:57:47 AM   
trusting


Posts: 144
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		i think it is hard to define a sub/slave... everyone seems to have different definitions of the two.
i would just let things flow with the way she is responding, if she is game...then continue, if not... then stop.




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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/5/2008 8:39:15 AM   
Sundowner


Posts: 2549
Joined: 3/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tapestry
Let's forget the escort thing, and get to what your question is: How to tell .....
So please, enjoy yourself, don't worry about the label, and just explore what pleases you.
Blessings and Peace


Hugs, for hitting the key query, and for useful comment - thanks.

(in reply to Tapestry)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/5/2008 8:56:50 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HerLord

quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696


she is an escort..how does one knows she likes it really and doesn't play it?
females can even fake orgasm..we males are never sure!!!!!!


The ONLY thing I AM sure of, is I will eventually die. (i hope)


just not when     ;)
and that is shitty    but lets hope it is when old.....


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/5/2008 8:57:56 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tapestry
Let's forget the escort thing, and get to what your question is: How to tell .....
So please, enjoy yourself, don't worry about the label, and just explore what pleases you.
Blessings and Peace


Hugs, for hitting the key query, and for useful comment - thanks.


I think that is what you wanted to hear not?



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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Please - how do I tell? - 3/5/2008 9:00:05 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sundowner

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tapestry
Let's forget the escort thing, and get to what your question is: How to tell .....
So please, enjoy yourself, don't worry about the label, and just explore what pleases you.
Blessings and Peace


Hugs, for hitting the key query, and for useful comment - thanks.


I just think personally that not liking the advice you are given and only taking the parts that suit you mitigates the point of asking the qursion. Tapestry said a lot of things that have been mentioned previously about language, and yet you chose to highlight one line, If you want to foget about the label and have fun you didnt need to ask about the label in the first place.


edited to add, god i wish i could be as conscise as Justme


_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to Sundowner)
Profile   Post #: 40
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