RE: "Under Consideration" (Full Version)

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FLButtSlut -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 12:21:20 AM)

I am pretty much ambivalent about the whole "collar of consideration" thing. As long as everyone is clear on its meaning, then I really can't see where there is harm.




KatyLied -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 5:24:44 AM)

quote:

As long as everyone is clear on its meaning, then I really can't see where there is harm.


That is precisely the difficulty. It means different things to different people. I was offered a "collar of consideration" after a few emails with a Dom. He didn't know anything about me. My thought: "geez, could we meet for coffee before tossing a collar (real or symbolic) into the mix?" I told him I didn't want this opportunity (collar of consideration) to "demonstrate my submissiveness". Why would I want to demonstrate anything to a man I didn't know?




BlueDevil -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 6:17:26 AM)

quote:

That is precisely the difficulty. It means different things to different people. I was offered a "collar of consideration" after a few emails with a Dom. He didn't know anything about me. My thought: "geez, could we meet for coffee before tossing a collar (real or symbolic) into the mix?" I told him I didn't want this opportunity (collar of consideration) to "demonstrate my submissiveness". Why would I want to demonstrate anything to a man I didn't know?


But, by extension, you could say the same thing about virtually every aspect of this sub-culture. The definitions of Master, slave, submissive mean different things to different people. What one Dom expects of a sub isn't what another might expect. There are subs who are prepared to serve without an emotional attachment, others feel that they have to build a long term bond of trust and even love before they can submit. It all seems to mean different things to different people.

Some see the books of Gor as the ulitmate philosphy, others are actually applying the slavery displayed on the new HBO show, Rome, to themselves, there are some approaching this from the point of view of the philosophy of love that is at the heart of the New Testament, and there are some that use the Beauty books as their ideal. Some use Dr. Warren's book as a guide, some believe in building training schools for Doms and subs, others feel that one should mentor, some feel that mentoring is too often exploitive to be of value.

Unless something is dangerous or exploitive, I don't see the harm. Just not for me. As to the OP's point, I'm sure there are predators out there doling out 'collars of consideration', just as there are genuine Doms doing it, either to show the sub that they're interested, or to make the sub feel special while they're getting to know them. Is that ethical? Ethics are always on the tail end of sciene and technology. What is ethical on the internet today may be illegal tomorrow.

Of course, there are also some out there who resent the 'collars of consideration' because they feel they interfere with their plans to work a sub, particularly online. But those people will be bothered by any collar, or mention of a relationship that prevents them from trying to mark territory.




BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 7:01:00 AM)

I agree with you guy uonder consideration is just a cyber MASTERS way of collecting a string of subs/slaves that he has sold a bill of goods...I for one think that under consideration along with a slave contract is a bill of goods not worth the paper its written on..Under consideration hell no for I am of the old school..You come you serve and IF you are worthy a collar will be offered.Then you will know that I am interested in you.OF course this is just this ol MASTERS view of things..BOUNTY




LadiesBladewing -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 7:01:36 AM)

We also do not offer collars online, although some of our servants participate online in some of the same venues that we do. None of our -successful- servants have been found in online venues, either, unfortunately. I guess we don't translate well to electronic format. *chuckles*

Lady Zephyr

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueDevil

This is just my take, but, I never offer collars online. This can be a great way to meet people who aren't in your circle, exchange ideas, but, I don't see it as another world, like many do. Not a condemnation of 'cyber' this or that, some people have nothing else, for many reasons.
I've also never collar submissives. Just slaves.




SimplySubmissive -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 7:19:59 AM)

BuuI'll tell you what I think when I see that. It strikes me as some dominant telling some poor new submissive, "I _think_ I might like you, but I don't want to commit to you exclusively - so, I'm going to tell you to put 'under consideration' on your profile so you other dominants feel warned off and so I don't have to worry about you talking to anyone else...Buuut, at the same time, I'll still be free to run around and hit on everyone else, because I'm not sure what the hell I want."
ut, at the same time, I'll still be free to run around and hit on everyone else, because I'm not sure what the hell I want." [/quote]


I beleive this is common amoung those "Doms" who have Harem fantasies... I think they do know what they want.. lots of willing girls. They don't understand the concept of power exchange, or a true D/s relationship. these "Doms" spend quite a lot of time online, and demand to be called Sir, etc.

However... there is a true meaning to a collar of consideration as others have posted. Like an engagement period, to those that take the formal collar seriously.

just my humble opinion....;)




SimplySubmissive -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 7:23:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut

JustaTop,

I agree completely! That is my point, that for some reason there are those that think the concept of being in an exclusive relationship with a D/s dynamic is just not possible.

Remember, I have repeatedly said that for those who have or seek poly situations or things other than an exclusive relationship...

I find it amusing that some don't understand that within the world of bdsm there can be two people who love each other and are exclusive yet still have that power exchange.

Kind of strange don't ya think?







I find that odd too, and have been told that it is a fantasy to think i will ever find such a thing as an exclusive D/s relationship..
I'll continue to hold on to that fantasy, thank you very much.




LadiesBladewing -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 7:37:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JustaTop

That's just hendonism speaking.

I don't take people who think everyone should be "sharing" any more seriously than those who think no one should. It only shows a self centered mindset that cannot see beyond it's own desires. I tried poly years ago,and it was just too damned difficult-and you do NOT want two subs coming into pms at the same time around you![&:]

Does his best "Monty Phython and the Holy Grail" imitation......."Run away,run away!!!!"[&:]

[clipped]


Boy, do I agree with you here...and HOW! It is my profound belief, backed by a lot of experience, that different people are set up for different things, and if you aren't "wired" poly -- if it doesn't interest someone, scares the living daylights out of them, disgusts them, annoys them, or just plain feels "wrong", they should listen to those gut feelings. Struggling with poly just because someone said some nice words and you're really hungry for a relationship almost NEVER works. Some people are at their best one-on-one, and should never settle for something that makes them uncomfortable just to have "something".

Poly is -hard-. We've had decades of experience -- even -before- we got involved with D/s -- and it is -still- hard, and lots of work. As far as PMS *grins* for a while, our guys had to deal with not one, or two, but SIX women, all cycling within a two week time-period in the month. It's not so bad now. There are four of us women living in the same house, and two of us are still cycling (the other two of us are post-hysterectomy, but we -still- have some of the same monthly swings, even without uterus and ovaries!) Even as -women-, it is a challenge to deal with other women PMS-ing. I often wondered why the menfolk bothered *chuckles*. But they did, and we were exceptionally happy, because all of us really understood and -wanted- the life we were in. We knew we were poly -before- we got involved in it, and when the opportunity presented itself, we felt joy, not angst.

On the other hand, I could never conceive of being in a monogamous relationship again. I tried it, and really worked at it for 13 years because I didn't know a single other person who, like me, was interested in multiple relationships. Honestly, I thought I was completely alone in the world, and tried to suppress it for years and years -- and left my marriage 2 years before I finally found a poly family, because it was suffocating me, and was killing both of us. I know better now. I won't promise what I can't give, and no matter how interesting someone is to us, if he or she isn't poly and -comfortable- with being that, not coerced into it, we won't encourage them, because they'd end up being desperately unhappy with us.

On the other hand, if the huge complexities of a multi-person household sounds like fun, and a challenge someone'd -enjoy- sorting out... well...where they heck are ya, cause we'd sure love having a tall guy who knows how to take care of himself, can cook decent organic meals, could take orders from women without it damaging his self-esteem and masculinity, is fiscally responsible, has work that he loves that is portable enough to allow him to be where we are ('cause our work isn't portable), can take a flogging, enjoys dressing up and can hold his own in a tux INCLUDING being able to talk the talk, walk the walk, and dance a waltz, can hold a decent philosophical, esoteric and/or political discussion, enjoys dancing and spending the day touring antique shops, understands opera, anime, and SF&F, and doesn't mind living in a place where it NEVER gets cool enough to be truly refreshing (ok, even I have trouble with this part) -- heck, never hurts to ask, huh? *laughs*

Lady Zephyr




Soulhuntre -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 10:59:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplySubmissive
I beleive this is common amoung those "Doms" who have Harem fantasies... I think they do know what they want.. lots of willing girls. They don't understand the concept of power exchange, or a true D/s relationship. these "Doms" spend quite a lot of time online, and demand to be called Sir, etc.


I am trying to work out if these things supposedly always go together, or are always bad or what? Since clearly a "harem" and power exchange (a "true" D/s relationship) can go together that part of it isn't holding together for a start.

Now, obviously there are pompous, idiotic doms online and in meatspace (the whole demand to be called Sir reference) because you meet them everywhere.

It's the connextion that supposedly exists between wanting a "harem" and the lac of understanding of "true" D/s that is odd.

Of course, anytime the word "true" is put in front of something things get wierd :)




Soulhuntre -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 11:01:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER
paper its written on..Under consideration hell no for I am of the old school..You come you serve and IF you are worthy a collar will be offered.


Obviously the "old ways" weren't as homogenous as many think they were. A lot of the old gay leathermen (50's 60's era BDSM) absolutely understand the idea of a consideration collar.




Soulhuntre -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 11:08:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut
Then what makes you think your "uncommon" way would ever appropriately apply?


Again, your reading of the O/P and mine differ greatly. Youw ill notice again that the OP did not say "I think it is wrong to lead a submissive to believe tha tyouw ill be exclusive and then cheat on her" - a statement I woudl have agreed with. it said, in esssence, that "considerationc ollars are always tools of deciet and evil".. a statement I disagree with.

But lets leave that aside.

Even among those dominants I know who are exclusive, mongomous peopel when they are in a position to be considering someone for that position the power disparity for some of them manifests itself as a lack os symmetry in this area during consideration and courtship.

In other words, even for "exclusive" types there are some who absolutely can and do expect the submissive to commit to exclusivity during this onsideration period when they themselves do not. Since this is honest, above board and clearly communicated it isn't a problem.





JustaTop -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 11:13:08 AM)

That's exactly it-I may not excercise double standards,but others do. I see nothing wrong with it, if the girl is happy with the terms that are laid out to begin with.

Now if you pulled a "bait and switch" tactic on her,where she was told something that didn't jibe later on-I'd have an issue with it.




IronBear -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/8/2005 1:04:10 PM)

As I stated in an earlier post, we only have two collar types: The House Collar, (owed by the House) and a Personal Collar (owned by Lady Neets or myself). Obviously Personal Collars are also part of the house but the specific ownership is changed, yet if I’m not available and an infraction to the rules happens or it is a minor one Lady Neets will deal with it. Any girl in my Personal Collar also has a standing permission to directly talk to my FC if the matter is a female problem.

Now regarding areas of “Consideration”, there will be an interest period where there no commitments on either side but are learning about each other and my home. At this time she is not considered exclusive. The girl will be expected to visit and even stay over night without any commitments or undue pressure. In other words she is someone who identifies as a slave (or subby wanting to become a slave). We talk and she gets to see what a cantankerous old bastard I really am and how adorable Neets is. If things go well we will after a few days wait discuss her future. Then if we are in agreement, a trial period is sorted out and fat that time she is collared with a House Collar. This also has a “P” marked on it to represent that she is a “probationer”. At this time she is exclusive to the home and will possibly move in if circumstances allow it. This collar may be passed down for no real attachment is attached or I may allow her to have it as a remembrance of her arrival in our home). During this probationary period the basic training occurs should she require, including having her nose in several Gor books if she is new to Gor. During this period, although she is under full discipline, she also knows that she is free to leave at any time and will be given that choice again when she begs a Full House Collar. Once through the probationary period and she wants to remain she is recollared with the complete House Collar.

I am aware that to some, this is not what a Gorean Home would do, how ever, having been around more than a few decades I’ve learned a few things, one of them is that it is far better to build good working safeguards so that anyone who is going to potentially a long relationship with you knows what they are in for ~ The Good & The Bad. The point is, collaring a slave into my house is one huge responsibility, which I and Neets takes seriously.




Phoenxx -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/12/2005 2:01:14 PM)

I think a newbie reading this thread will learn a couple of things.
What I would hope would be the first, is that there are many ways and means to practice this type of lifestyle. There is no one true way.
That there are people out there that will take advantage of others, although if you are just figuring that out… ouch!
And unfortunately, there are a lot of people that have no tolerance for anything different from their own ways and ideas.
As much as we think the “vanilla” world is intolerant of kinksters… they haven’t got a thing on us…
Kind of sad…
More people need to remember that opinions are like assholes… everyone has at least one … lol
If you want to have a collar of consideration, sit down and discuss what it means to you BOTH. Find out if the Top is wants to play around or not. Communication… without it your pretty much screwed. Before you play or take a relationship to another level, create a contract. Even though it has no legal standing, other then to show intent, it does go a long way to starting communication and keeping those lines open. And it allows you to both know what you are talking about.
But anyone that says “you’re a faker and a player, a wimp or such” because of a collar of consideration… well I’m thinking you need to sit back and realize that not everyone has to practice their lifestyle the same way you do. Hell a lot of us wouldn’t take your life on a dare or a bad bet.
Live and let live… it works a lot better….
Tony




oldnewbie2 -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/13/2005 2:30:15 PM)

i just want to say, Sir, that i find Your posts very very informative for me and helpful This site is great and im glad i joined, and thanks for being very honest and intelligent and experienced Dom, who can really help an old newbie like me. Grinz and aloha




Lordandmaster -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/13/2005 5:59:38 PM)

I'm glad you've found them useful.




fyreredsub -> RE: "Under Consideration" (10/13/2005 7:11:18 PM)



As for your "boon" theory...certainly a dominant is looking for the same "boon" from me as I am from him. He is seeking a partner just as I am. When the compatibility is there it is a "boon" to each of us.

The issue of "who is doing the asking" is that for those seeking a relationship, BOTH are doing the asking. I am asking a dominant what things he is looking for in a partner and he is asking me the same thing to ascertain whether or not we are compatible. What goes on in "training" situations is of little interest to me, and of little matter to what the OP was discussing as well.
************************************************
to this girl it could be equated w/ the nilla version of going steady.
or sizing each other to see if you all are a "fit'





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