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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 5:05:37 AM

Dnomyar

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Justme your a whimp. I take my subs and drag them by their hair into the cave and have my way with them. Quit with the nice guy stuff and treat them the way they were ment to be treated. Do the me Tarzan you Jane thing.

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 5:51:13 AM

DesFIP

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Your preferred style may be to bark orders. But someone else's preferred style may be to use civility. There's nothing wrong in saying "Do you have time today to make tacos" instead of demanding it when you know she can't get to the store until 7 and you want dinner on the table by 6:30.

As far as asking if the word slut or cunt would offend someone, I think that's just intelligent. Some people don't handle humiliation or degradation at all well. Wouldn't you prefer to know that ahead of time instead of having your partner run screaming out of the room when you use it on her while she's more vulnerable?

But pouting about a dress is passive aggressive. However demanding she wear shapeless, ugly clothes so no other man will ever look at her admiringly is just massively insecure and equally unpleasant.

Some women freak out if a belt is used, because that was the implement used when they were abused at a tender age. You might think it is undomly to discuss these things ahead of time, but a lot of us prefer it to having flashbacks brought on suddenly.

typo

< Message edited by DesFIP -- 3/5/2008 6:40:55 AM >

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 6:25:53 AM

BlackPhx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner4SexSlave

She ended up cutting the play session short and avoiding him afterwards. Basically, he was putting all the control into her ball court and he was looking for her approval upon everything he was doing or trying to do.

Actually I can commiserate with her on this. There was a Dom that I had been talking to, Email, IM, Phone on Lists and finally in person. He flew down to Florida for a week and we spent it together. I went up to visit him several times as well. We went to visit mutual friends in Texas. During this whole period, nothing ever happened. Nada. Zip. Not a stroke, not a spank, not a chaining. Nada. The friends in Texas tried to help him get started, and he did make the effort, a very tentative effort, I have had a 5 year old hit harder. Mentally he was intelligent, dominant, creative, physically he just couldn't bring himself to follow through on what he wanted and I needed. If I had kept going I suspect we would have both been miserable as it seemed inevitably that I would have been the one in control with him checking with me for everything he did. The chemistry was there, don't get me wrong, on both sides, but the courage of his need was apparently overwhelmed by his caution to the point of immobility in action.

poenkitten (who recognizes even when there is a match there may not be enough of a match)

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 6:28:03 AM

justdavid

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I tend to agree with the points being made about it just takes two people to fit, in a new situation there is always going to be both top from bottom and bottom from top things and this topic while not mentioned like this thread does get discussed.

What I have seen and discussed with many submissives in terms of dominants bottoming from the top more has to do with effort and not sincere in their actual interests. That there are a lot of dominants who want to be spoiled and have their ego’s stroked but do not want to take the active lead in this part or many times a lot of parts in their relationships. Basically they want to be spoiled betas.

So their actions basically want to know what they have to do when they have to do it to get their submissive to do that for them. It is the dominant who relies way too heavily on the great catch all the submissive has to inform me when they are having problems or toss out the line no doormat too much. It is the dominant who does the kink things not out of their pleasure all that much but is basically just wanting to take and fulfill an order in this area so their sub still subs. There is a huge difference between the Mr. Rogers discussion when two people are new and learning each other and when that happens more often then not in an ongoing relationship.

Please do not get me wrong and think that as a dominant I have to be a mind reader and submissives do very much need to communicate problems and needs. I just think some dominants use that as a crutch in their relationship. Dominant to me is a take charge leader as in proactive more times then not while dominants that bottom from the top are often more about being too reactive in the relationship or situation.

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 6:42:26 AM

Jeffff

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Sometimes I think we get hung up on terms.

There is always alot of talk about communication. The way I see it, unless you are involved in a very specific scene, everything else can be called communicating.

Whats wrong with a Dom expressing an interest in his sub/slaves thoughts?
Especially when it comes to the day to day things.

Jeff

< Message edited by Jeffff -- 3/5/2008 6:43:35 AM >

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 6:56:13 AM

SinergyNstrumpet

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As a play term TFTB has some merit. It is a nice phrase to describe someone who is instructing the top on what to do and what not to do during a scene. In a D/s context in a relational sense... I think the phrase is not only over used, but meaningless.

I made the comment on the other thread about a dom bottoming from the top. As I see it, this is just as meaningless is a relational sense as is the other. As far as manipulativeness being a part of the definition of topping from the bottom, or that bottoms are somehow manipulative... what bullshit. Someone who is really topping from the bottom is rather transparent about it , and direct too. What could be more direct than instructing a top to go harder or softer? In the play sense I have topped from the bottom in my first relationship at his instruction... he wanted to know what I liked... and I suppose in that sense he was bottoming from the top for a purpose that was his as a dominant

These roles we take on shouldn't become charactures of relationships in my opinion... at least I hope that isn't the case for Daddy and I.

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 7:10:24 AM

Justme696

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Justme your a whimp. I take my subs and drag them by their hair into the cave and have my way with them. Quit with the nice guy stuff and treat them the way they were ment to be treated. Do the me Tarzan you Jane thing.

you are already my jane..couldn't find anything closer to the real thing

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 7:27:12 AM

RCdc

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I bottom from the top - so yeah, I am with LA, colouredinone, and j. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, it doesn't define my orientation and it certainly isn't passive aggressive (that accusation made me chuckle).
Top doesn't equal dominant. I don't see why that is so hard to understand for some people.

the.dark.
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< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 3/5/2008 7:28:55 AM >

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 7:55:41 AM

SubbieOnWheels

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The terms as I used them referred exactly to what I mean by passive-aggressive, etc. I did not mean communication. Don't confuse good communication with TFTB or BFTT. It's when the dialogue becomes so bogged down or blocked by p-a type verbage that the activity becomes no longer fun for one party or both parties.

That's what I meant.

As to "labelling" dialogue styles - perhaps that's something for the Ph.D. types to do, but I have done some reading on the subject of communication, and I calls 'em as I sees 'em.

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 8:07:54 AM

RedHotAndSoSexy

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Hi all. I have been lurking around here and wanted to chime in. These terms of "topping from the bottom" etc. seem to me to be just various ways of expressing discontent with the way someone is dealing with you. So instead of communicating, these terms are thrown about.

I was with someone for the first time last week who was very nice, and I met him here so I thought he was a Dom. After all, he SAID he was.

When we got together, apparently he had never done anything remotely Dominant before in his life and I ended up telling him what to do. I kept trying to discuss it with him and he could not articulate his thoughts.

So, was I topping from below, from the top or just making sure I got some of my needs met?

P.S. The Mr. Rodgers metaphor was especially apt in this guys case; he was too passive even when I told him what I liked.

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 8:08:40 AM

kittinSol

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Interestingly, I have always found the expression "topping from the bottom" total bullshit, so I understand why some posters would find my thread absurd.

Because it kind of is. So thedark, Lucky and strumpet and the others, I pretty much agree that the concept of bftt or tftb smacks of stereotypes about the "wight and wong" ways to be.

The main reason I posted this was because I felt the need to demysify things a little bit... people take their respective "roles" in this "lifestyle" (fuck, I hate that word lol) too seriously. Slave4's examples of bott from top pretty much circumvent the fun of it: Doms can brat too. Doesn't make them bad; just means they can be as immature as naughty lil' SLABS

.

Where did the expression top from bott originate, does anybody know? And why isn't the reverse, bott from top, spoken of (until now)? What never ceases to amuse me is how a community of people such as us churns out the same old stereotypes and pigeonholes individuals, just like "ordinary" society does.

In the end, you would think that because we are a little different, we would seek to avoid labels.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 3/5/2008 8:45:11 AM >

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 8:18:13 AM

daddysprop247

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the bottoming from the top issue has certainly been discussed, perhaps not much here at collarme but i've seen the issue brought up on various lifestyle message boards and chats. it's also something i've heard people discuss quite a bit at real life gatherings. a "Dom" who is known to bottom from the top...meaning, giving order to his submissive to top him in any way is not generally viewed in a good light by most. while it is absolutely true that topping and bottoming is entirely separate from dominating and submitting, in the opinion of some (myself and my Master being among them), one who has a truly Dominant nature would have no desire to ever bottom, just as one who has a submissive nature would have no desire to ever top. of course, in our little circle we tend to view things a bit more black and white than some, and many people have no desire to be or to be with someone who is at the extreme end....all Dom or all sub, so something like TFTB or BFTT would not be so much of an issue for such folks.

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 8:18:17 AM

RCdc

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I have said before on the TftB thread (last week?) - people use the phrase and I am sure they would use this version, as a way to extend their authority over anothers relationship when it's in trouble. Meh - let people have their fun - if it makes someone feel big to make accusations so it sounds negative, more fool them.

the.dark.

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 8:20:44 AM

colouredin

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*agreeing with D&d as i so often find myself doing.

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 8:25:36 AM

SubbieOnWheels

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
In the end, you would think that because we are a little different, we would seek to avoid labels.

Ah, but we are only a "little" different, and we strive to be seen as no different. And we are human, and humans usually want some semblance of order in their experience. Unusual or unexpected situations unnerve or even frighten us, so we want to find some explanation that makes sense to us in order to place things back into whatever suits our sense of order. If that include putting a name to the situation that we can then place on subsequent similar experiences, well, then, that's a coping mechanism.

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 8:28:52 AM

colouredin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
In the end, you would think that because we are a little different, we would seek to avoid labels.

Ah, but we are only a "little" different, and we strive to be seen as no different. And we are human, and humans usually want some semblance of order in their experience. Unusual or unexpected situations unnerve or even frighten us, so we want to find some explanation that makes sense to us in order to place things back into whatever suits our sense of order. If that include putting a name to the situation that we can then place on subsequent similar experiences, well, then, that's a coping mechanism.

I can see the logic and psychobable, but ummm what i never get is why we are so content with the status quo, sure there are rationalities behind many forms of behaviour why dont we instead of excusing it try to make ourselves better? i mean we can do it. I know that initially i loved the labels, clung to them for dear life, and teaching myself to not try and pidgen hole people was hard but I believe that I am doing fairly well at it. Why cant we be the best that we can be rather than just accept being the norm. Sorry its not an attack on you subbieonwheels its just a general pondering

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 8:35:28 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SubbieOnWheels

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
In the end, you would think that because we are a little different, we would seek to avoid labels.

Ah, but we are only a "little" different, and we strive to be seen as no different. And we are human, and humans usually want some semblance of order in their experience. Unusual or unexpected situations unnerve or even frighten us, so we want to find some explanation that makes sense to us in order to place things back into whatever suits our sense of order. If that include putting a name to the situation that we can then place on subsequent similar experiences, well, then, that's a coping mechanism.

I believe that is quite a good observation Beth. Some people do seem to have a want to belong - otherwise you wouldn't get some people insisting the BDSM should be 'acceptable' by now. You get the one true wayisms all over the place by people who insist they are only one particular label and who define it exactly and anything that is outside their box isn't 'true'. People forget that black and white are not actually colours, but are shades of grey.

the.dark.

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 8:42:19 AM

RedMagic1

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Colouredin, you are describing a natural progression in yourself that people follow from no RL experience to RL experience. When someone is new, and has, for example, three months of essentially online-only experience, their identity is going to come from words and phrases, because that is their primary form of interaction with BDSM and D/s. When someone has acted as much as they have talked -- or perhaps even more -- their foundation for identity will be from their physical sensations and experiences, not (just) words.

People can shed the need to label with time and experience... as long as they are living real life, and paying attention to it.

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 8:48:47 AM

colouredin

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Hmm I dont think its to do with experaince, i know people who have been, no what was the term that you used? "living real life" and still love their terms and are huge advocates of exclusivity. I think it has no basis on whether you have 'real life' experiance or online i think its a case of being comfy within yourself and trying to see differant perspectives.

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RE: Bottoming from the top. - 3/5/2008 8:52:09 AM

RedMagic1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
i think its a case of being comfy within yourself and trying to see differant perspectives.

I.e., paying attention.

Someone only focused on protecting himself/herself will fail to appreciate the wonderfully weird things other people do.

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