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RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 9:18:41 AM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you
Sorry people, but if the 2 of them join forces, It would be a landslide.
It would be the first in U.S. History.
MCain would not stand a chance.
As Always, ant

You're right Ant.

All the people who won't ever vote for Senator Clinton and all the people who won't ever vote for Senator Obama will be united with the people who are committed to the 'one true way' of voting Republican. I could quote many 'one true way' Democrats from this site expressing those positions. Surely they aren't all hypocrites?

The numbers don't lie. That combined group WILL constitute a land slide.

Of course they could point out the ineffectiveness of the Congress to help their cause. No wait - since 2006 the majority party has been different. Pointing to Congress 'accomplishments' won't help either. Yup - a landslide is very likely.

My guess is that I'm not pointing out something that either the Clinton or Obama campaign don't know. Senator Clinton is the only one of the two who brings up the possibility. There's a very good reason for that, as quoted here by Dick Morris:

quote:

The results are already clear. Obama will go to the Democratic Convention with a lead of between 100 and 200 elected delegates. The remaining question is: What will the superdelegates do then? But is that really a question? Will the leaders of the Democratic Party be complicit in its destruction? Will they really kindle a civil war by denying the nomination to the man who won the most elected delegates? No way. They well understand that to do so would be to throw away the party’s chances of victory and to stigmatize it among African-Americans and young people for the rest of their lives. The Democratic Party took 20 years to recover from the traumas of 1968 and it is not about to trigger a similar bloodletting this year. Source: http://thehill.com/dick-morris/its-over-2008-03-06.html

Senator Clinton sees VP now as her only chance to be on the ticket. Her selfishness can result in Senator Obama loosing. It will be interesting to see what she cares about more - herself or a victory for her party in November.

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 41

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 9:19:50 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Hillary/Barack or Barack/Hillary is probably the way the Dems will HAVE to go.

The question is....

Who will be on top?

that ship has sailed. it wont happen. she did not run in 2004 as she wanted to run in 08. she isnt entitled. the more she slams him- the better he looks. she ought as ask to be his VP. but she wont.

add to this the Fox is "Americas election head quarters" and we will get 8 more years of republican rule.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 42

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 9:31:58 AM

MzMia

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Joined: 7/30/2004
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pahunk, we have to agree to disagree on this one.

I don't think THAT ship has sailed at all.

Have you been watching the coverage lately?

It is talked about A LOT as the DEMS only chance.

Time will tell, I don't see it any other way.
OF course, common sense tells you it won't happen until one of them wins.
Neither side is going to give up at his point and accept the VP, position, BUT
one of them will.

Barackface: 2008 Countdown: Hillary-Obama

The Obama-Clinton Ticket? - The Caucus - Politics - New York Times Blog

< Message edited by MzMia -- 3/9/2008 9:35:52 AM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 43

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 9:48:37 AM

caitlyn

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Joined: 12/22/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
All the people who won't ever vote for Senator Clinton and all the people who won't ever vote for Senator Obama will be united with the people who are committed to the 'one true way' of voting Republican.

Perhaps it might be all the people that would vote or Senator Clinton, all the people that would vote for Senator Obama, all the people that would vote for either one, all the people that think one might enhance the other, and all the people feeling that you can't keep doing the same things and expect a different result ... vs. Senator McCain.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 44

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 9:52:46 AM

MzMia

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Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
All the people who won't ever vote for Senator Clinton and all the people who won't ever vote for Senator Obama will be united with the people who are committed to the 'one true way' of voting Republican.

Perhaps it might be all the people that would vote or Senator Clinton, all the people that would vote for Senator Obama, all the people that would vote for either one, all the people that think one might enhance the other, and all the people feeling that you can't keep doing the same things and expect a different result ... vs. Senator McCain.

You hit the nail on the head and explained it much better than I could.
Especially, after losing my hour last night.
The Clinton and Obama camps must unite to have the votes to BEAT McCain.
Divided they fall, wait until one of them is elected.
We will have months, and months of how united they are.
I can't wait to see it, just wait.

I predict they will be holding hands grinning and dancing, AFTER one
of them wins the Democratic nomination.
The point is for the Democrats to take back the White House, many forget that point.

< Message edited by MzMia -- 3/9/2008 9:53:39 AM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 45

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 10:02:27 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
All the people who won't ever vote for Senator Clinton and all the people who won't ever vote for Senator Obama will be united with the people who are committed to the 'one true way' of voting Republican.

Perhaps it might be all the people that would vote or Senator Clinton, all the people that would vote for Senator Obama, all the people that would vote for either one, all the people that think one might enhance the other, and all the people feeling that you can't keep doing the same things and expect a different result ... vs. Senator McCain.

caitlyn,
There isn't one source I could find to agree with you. However many sources supported the contrary. The issue most often pointed to is Senator Clinton's overall negative rating. It would be a big number to overcome wherever she appears on the ticket. Combined with Senator Obama's rating, small at only 22%, you start a campaign needing to make up ground only to get 50% of the people to switch from NOT voting against you.

Why would Senator Obama want to, he doesn't have to. Put Senator Edwards in the VP slot and you have a positive coalition. Senator Clinton at this point can only loose the Presidency for the Democrats; by continue to run and forcing a contentious convention, or by needing to be the VP.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 46

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 10:23:42 AM

caitlyn

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Joined: 12/22/2004
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I tend to agree with you, If Senator Obama wins, Senator Edwards will likely be his running mate.

My guess is, if Senator Clinton wins, it will be a brokered deal that puts Senator Obama on the ticket as Vice President.

As far as sources ... at one time "sources" had Mayor Guilliani in the Republican cat-bird seat, and the only one that could challenge him, was former Senator Fred Thompson. Last week, sources had Senator McCain slightly beaten by Senator Obama, and clearly beating Senator Clinton. This week, most of the same sources are telling us a different story.

I'm not even sure I buy the Democratic "fight to the death" as a bad thing. It may not be what Howard Dean wants to see, but the case can also be made that to a typically fickle voting public, the harder the war, the happier the event of the inevitable makeup.

Sources ... the media ... the talking heads. I'm sure you can find a large group of them that will say almost anything you want to hear. They all throw the same spin, from the angle they are spinning from, they all read the same interviews, same polls, and work mostly for the same people.

I would also suggest that if you can't find any that would agree with me, perhaps you don't want to. I have heard many pundits that have suggested that Senator Clinton would be much better at the attack based politics that will undoubtedly win the general election, and would be much better in a debate with Senator McCain on foreign policy, and that overcoming her negatives is what she has been doing her whole life.

Of course, I discount those that agree with me, as easily as those that don't.

_____________________________

I wish I could buy back ...
the woman you stole.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 47

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 10:44:44 AM

awmslave

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Joined: 3/31/2006
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What Hillary and Bill are proposing is Clinton/Obama presidency not vice versa. It is just an example of Billary basic dishonesty and tactics (Hillary as an inevitable nominee). They realize it is very difficult to get on top with popular vote and they think Hillary/Obama would be acceptable to decide by "superdelegates". Also, such proposal may give Hillary more votes in remaining states. It would be a mistake for Obama to choose Hillary as running-mate. Hillary base (old uneducated women and latinos) are not who decide election. McCain will take half of lationo vote any way.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 48

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 10:46:11 AM

pahunkboy

Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

pahunk, we have to agree to disagree on this one.

I don't think THAT ship has sailed at all.

Have you been watching the coverage lately?

It is talked about A LOT as the DEMS only chance.

Time will tell, I don't see it any other way.
OF course, common sense tells you it won't happen until one of them wins.
Neither side is going to give up at his point and accept the VP, position, BUT
one of them will.

Barackface: 2008 Countdown: Hillary-Obama

The Obama-Clinton Ticket? - The Caucus - Politics - New York Times Blog

I hope you are right. We very much need to be on a different path. This week I have to re-register as a dem. I affiliated to vote for Ron Paul who has now dropped out. I am concerned over the e-machines. the bible people tho are a force that --somehow kept bush in in 2004.

I think Hillary ought to settle for VP.

the soft on obama --well media dis is starting over the "real obama" - the drum beat to get the right in lockstep.

anyhow- it is encouraging when Wyoming - timy populaiton had 10 times the turn out! that is great!! the turn out has been high thruout.
so that is the good news.

I dont know why Obama is slammed like he is. I can follow his logic. He verbalizes how he arrives at a conclusion.

even tho we have big problems in this country the 'we can" is exactly what we need!

yes we can.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 49

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 10:54:30 AM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

pahunkboy, I do agree with your last post.

Many of the people that are seeking to divide the Democrats, are
the Republicans.

We are only as strong as our weakest link, the point is to get a Democrat
in the White House.

The economy is in deep doo-doo, people are struggling, fed up and tired.
I am fairly certain a Democrat will win.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 50

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 11:53:31 AM

awmslave

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Joined: 3/31/2006
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Obama/Clinton ticket is not for Clintons to propose. Proposing Clinton/Obama ticket at this point is like asking leading marathon runner to slow down in exchange for guaranteed silver medal.

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 51

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 12:03:06 PM

CuriousLord

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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I'm not sure how I'd feel about that. I'd probably go McCain if Clinton was on the president side of it. I'd probably still lean McCain if Clinton's on the vice side.

(in reply to knees2you)

Post #: 52

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 12:03:12 PM

verysweet

Posts: 128
Status: offline

Stranger things have happened in politics, certainly. But I can't, for the life of me, imagine those two on a ticket together. And if it did happen, any faith I had in either of them would be totally blown. Especially after they've spent the last few months lambasting one another in the press.

And Edwards? Please, anyone but him. Anyone.

And FWIW, voting in this election is the epitome of 'the lessor of two evils'---regardless who ends up as the Democratic Nominee.

_____________________________

Poetry in devotion.

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 53

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 12:07:00 PM

CuriousLord

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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It sounds like one of Cliton's underhanded political stunts to me. Obama's winning a fair election, but now he'll lose something if he accepts or declines.

Accepts, he'll lose his probable presidency. Rejects, he'll still lose a good chance at it as this is making Clinton look more reasonable. She's not being reasonable, but it can come off that way; and, in this respect, she's made a brilliant (even if dirty) political move.

At least, this is how I see it.

(in reply to verysweet)

Post #: 54

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 12:12:32 PM

Muttling

Posts: 1612
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

that ship has sailed. it wont happen. she did not run in 2004 as she wanted to run in 08. she isnt entitled. the more she slams him- the better he looks. she ought as ask to be his VP. but she wont.

add to this the Fox is "Americas election head quarters" and we will get 8 more years of republican rule.

A month ago I would have quickly agreed with you, but I'm thinking opposite based on recent events.   Hillary is going from do or die to do or die event.   She's holding on, but not buy much. In the mean time, Obama is breaking records for campain contributions and has amassed an enourmous war chest.

Now she has made an unusual comment saying she would consider it and Bill Clinton (her pit bull in the corner on this campain) has started saying that it would be an unbeatable ticket.   Obama on the other hand hasn't said a word about it.

Looks to me like Hillary is on the ropes and is making moves to create the dream ticket. Obama is in the drivers seat.

As for who would be best in what role, good vice presidents have historically been thugs for the president. As much as I hate Dick Chenney, he has played that role to perfection. Chenney lets Bush avoid the ugly aspects of negative comments by going on the attack for Bush. Who do you think would be better in the attack role, Obama or Hillary?   (Seems pretty obvious to me.)

On a final note, the only way I will reconsider my vote for McCain is if Hillary is running for the president's seat and then it depends on the details of her what she proposes.

(in reply to pahunkboy)

Post #: 55

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 12:49:53 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

Why would Senator Obama want to, he doesn't have to. Put Senator Edwards in the VP slot and you have a positive coalition. Senator Clinton at this point can only loose the Presidency for the Democrats; by continue to run and forcing a contentious convention, or by needing to be the VP.

Senator Obama has made much of the fact that he has "more delegates". He does indeed have more delegates--but not that much more. To win in November, Obama needs Hillary's supporters. If he doesn't have the backing of Hillary supporters, the Democrats lose in November. Obama's eloquence cannot change that fundamental political calculus.

If Hillary comes away from the convention not on the ticket somehow, what message does that send to the voters who backed Hillary? How will Obama reach out to those people? Will anti-Bush sentiment (which should be distinguished from anti-Republican sentiment) be sufficient to draw the Clintonistas to his campaign?

Unlike the result of the general election, where the winner needs merely to wield executive power and govern, Obama needs to persuade Hillary supporters to then vote for him, that voting for him is preferable to voting for McCain, or not voting at all. Will Obama's rhetorical flourishes be sufficient to persuade enough Hillary supporters to carry November? At the current level of rancor between the two candidates, that's a tall order no matter how smooth Obama's speeches are from here on out.

< Message edited by celticlord2112 -- 3/9/2008 12:50:19 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 56

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 1:17:59 PM

Alumbrado

Posts: 5560
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Does anyone seriously believe that even if Hillary somehow persuaded Obama to give up his lead for a figurehead position as VP, that she would bother to honor it, once she got the delegates?

That's the naivete that preceded the choosing of Dan Quayle.

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 57

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 1:31:41 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Does anyone seriously believe that even if Hillary somehow persuaded Obama to give up his lead for a figurehead position as VP, that she would bother to honor it, once she got the delegates?

That's the naivete that preceded the choosing of Dan Quayle.

The public nature of politics being what it is in the information age, it is unlikely Hillary would risk the negative public image she'd get from reneging on any deal made with the Obama camp. If she woos Obama to surrender his delegates by putting him on the ticket, he will be the vice-presidential candidate for the Democrats come November.

That being said, it is quite plausible that whichever of the two takes the second spot will find himself or herself pushed to the side by the one in the top spot. Neither Hillary nor Obama show much inclination to share the spotlight.

Clinton/Obama or Obama/Clinton could easiliy tear itself and the Democratic party apart if the egos are not held tightly in check.

_____________________________

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 58

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 2:08:30 PM

Muttling

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Joined: 9/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

If she woos Obama to surrender his delegates by putting him on the ticket, he will be the vice-presidential candidate for the Democrats come November.

That might be feasible later in the campain, but right now Obama has momentum on his side and his supporters are showing it with massive campain donations. If he took such a deal, I think they would loose a lot of votes from his supporters feeling like he sold out. I'm not sure they would vote for McCain but they may have a major turn out problem.

In addition, it would be like throwing a raw steak to starving lions. The Republicans would jump on it with ferocity and would get a lot of mileage out it.

(in reply to celticlord2112)

Post #: 59

RE: Barack/Hillary Together? - 3/9/2008 2:13:47 PM

Muttling

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Joined: 9/30/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

That's the naivete that preceded the choosing of Dan Quayle.

Actually, Dan Quayle was chosen very early in the Bush campain and Bush wanted to keep it a secret to add some level of excitement to a very predictable (and boring) campain. It was naive and foolish, but on a different level than what we are speaking of right now.

(in reply to Alumbrado)

Post #: 60

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