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RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/26/2005 10:16:00 AM

MsIncognito

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IMO, communication is not hte be all, end all that many seem to think. It is simply one step in a process. It's an important step but it's not the end goal. If there is a problem one does need to be able to communicate the issue (and yes, be understood). However, the next step is what I think is the most crucial part - making changes to either fix or avoid the problem in the future. Ultimately, communication isn't going to do a lick of good if the problem persists and this is where many people's relationships break down - they communicate well enough but in the end nothing changes. If nothing changes what was the point of the communication in the first place?

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 21

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/26/2005 3:03:56 PM

IronBear

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

IMO, communication is not hte be all, end all that many seem to think. It is simply one step in a process. It's an important step but it's not the end goal. If there is a problem one does need to be able to communicate the issue (and yes, be understood). However, the next step is what I think is the most crucial part - making changes to either fix or avoid the problem in the future. Ultimately, communication isn't going to do a lick of good if the problem persists and this is where many people's relationships break down - they communicate well enough but in the end nothing changes. If nothing changes what was the point of the communication in the first place?

Of course. The second step in any form of resolution is changes or at least a game plan on how to effect the required change/s. Its counselling 101. Communications first, with or without a madiator, so that all parties know where everyone stands, where they are comming from and what they want/need. Then the game plan on how best to effect the required changes.

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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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Post #: 22

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/26/2005 3:15:37 PM

caitlyn

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Communication ... that's that talking thing, right?

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Post #: 23

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/26/2005 3:35:24 PM

IronBear

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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Talking clearly (saying what you mean plainly and asking questions if you are unsure what the other person meant) Listening closely (Really hearing what they are saying and the inflections or intonations) Reading body language.... I'd say that pretty well covers it wouldn't you?

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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 24

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/26/2005 4:21:20 PM

kyraofMists

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Through my work today, I took a class on Presentation skills. Mainly it was on how to stand in front of a group and speak effectively. Although the class was on professional speaking, there was an interesting statistic that the trainer presented. She said that only 7% of the message that is received by your audience is from the words that you actually speak. The other 93% is broken up into body language and tone of voice, with body language being the higher percentage. I have very little knowledge in this area so I can only trust that her information is accurate.

We spend all this time picking and choosing the right words to say when our body language and tone of voice conveys more information.

Knight's kyra

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Post #: 25

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/26/2005 4:25:26 PM

NYMaster101

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Communication is also the key to learning you do not belong together. Either way, it make life better.

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

Post #: 26

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/26/2005 4:49:55 PM

Rover

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It has been my experience that lifestylers spout "communication" as a mantra, as if it will descend upon them like the Holy Spirit and "make" them communicative in ways they have never been before in any previous relationship. Pffffffttt.

Power exchange relationships are structured, and I personally find it necessary to create structure that enhances communication, or it's nothing but haphazard lipservice.

John

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 27

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/26/2005 7:42:27 PM

pinkpleasures

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quote:

Let's be real.......

Communication works best if you ignore the slut for at least 6 months.

When she has worked out all the scenarios that somehow women see, then she may be able to talk reasonably so that a man could listen.

Barring that, I guess that give and take is part of life and something I will have to do until the day I die and it won't matter after if anyone understood what I was feeling or not.

Let's not make this a big deal.

mnottertail

Ron..are You reading bad sci fi or s'thing? Lordy..six months? With no men?

pinkpleasures

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Post #: 28

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/27/2005 5:49:47 PM

subcheryl

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Sometimes I too have a hard time saying something to Master, I get nervous and frustrated, and he will sit and let me work it out, and I usually do, he will ask questions and that helps too, and if I don't understand something I ask him and he explains more clearly, he is really good at reading my facial and body language, he can tell my mood by just the way I sit or talk or the lack of talk, Like if really tired, I don't talk hardly at all and he feels he carries the conversation which I do try to follow him but brain goes into nuteral. Also he knows I am in a chill mode, when riding I don't talk sometimes I just look at the scenery around me then at other times I talk his ear off, so communication is both verbal, body, and facial in my book

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Post #: 29

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/27/2005 6:41:45 PM

ScooterTrash

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From: Indiana
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It's interesting how some scoff at the concept of communication and others support it. Granted, it is but one of the building blocks to a solid foundation, but a very important one. Some have automatically assumed this has to do with ending a quarrel or disagreement, when in reality if the communication was effective, no disagreement would have ver occurred. In my experiences it actually is better in a BDSM relationship then in a vanilla one, simply because there is generally no reason to throttle it back. Let's be serious, in most nilla relationships there are all sorts of wants, needs, fantasies and such that are suppressed out of fear of being ridiculed or at the very least looked at with raised eyebrows. In most BDSM relationships it is expected that the unusual and perhaps even bizaar ideas may come to the surface. So yes, we should simply by virtue of not having those restraints have better communication. In "Our" relationship we do communicate effectively and constantly, we also credit this as part of the reason our relationship is so strong, nothing to lie about, nothing to hide. Yes, it's more than talk, yes it's more than writing, but it is a package deal that has a value that can't be measured.

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(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 30

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/27/2005 6:56:58 PM

IronBear

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From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

It has been my experience that lifestylers spout "communication" as a mantra, as if it will descend upon them like the Holy Spirit and "make" them communicative in ways they have never been before in any previous relationship. Pffffffttt.

Power exchange relationships are structured, and I personally find it necessary to create structure that enhances communication, or it's nothing but haphazard lipservice.

John

Point of Order there John.

Its not just the BDSM liferstyle who pay lipservice to Communicatuions, but rather the whole spectrum of Western Society. I'm sure you'll agree that this is particularly so in the areas of Politics (Local, State and federal) as well as business and other areas. In such areas as i've mentioned, not only is Good Communication generally ignored, but the use of Miscomunication and the Bull Shit Baffles Brains school of communicating rife.

You use the term "create structure that enhances communication", and I use the term "setting the scene". We are in agreement here. It is essential to have the best ambiance possible so that people can just talk.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 9/27/2005 6:57:59 PM >

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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 31

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/28/2005 12:25:10 AM

Lordandmaster

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That's a very good point, IronBear.

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 32

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/28/2005 5:14:23 AM

Rover

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IronBear, I agree completely that the communication skills of lifestylers mirror those of the rest of society (ie: they are no better or worse than the whole). The difference is that the rest of society does not spew a constant bluster about how "good" they are at it. Lifestylers do.

"We" are not as special as is so often portrayed. Just regular folks (yeah, I'm satisfied just being a regular guy with no need to make myself feel special through my lifestyle) who are (at times) prone to self masturbatory adulation.

John

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 33

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/28/2005 11:42:28 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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Jumping in late...

I think the problem is people are interpreting "communication" with "agreement". Just because you go in an open up to another person it doesn't always or even often, result in a relationship. It's even more frustrating when you communicate your belief and understanding of what M/s is or D/s and your intended communicates a totally different perspective. You use the same terms, have the same vocabulary but you have a different personal dictionary. The easiest example of this is 24/7. There are people who advertise seeking 24/7, but after a short chat you find out that they didn't mean it to be ALL the time.

There you communicated, you opened up, but you still failed to agree. That's not a bad thing. Better to communicate fully and realize what you DON'T agree upon. Maybe through ongoing communications you can negotiate it, or come to compromise, but I think the only bad communication is the one where you "hold back" something because you are so desperate to have a relationship you are afraid that your lack of common definition or agreement to terminology will cost you the opportunity. Long term, I think you are ultimately going to fail, not because of what you communicated, but from what you didn't. You don't have to agree - you have to know the areas of disagreement. You'll only find them through communication, ongoing communication.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 34

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 4/22/2007 7:55:30 AM

KnightofMists

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I started this thread.. on Communication a while back. People talk about communication like it's a magic wand.... but when it comes time to have show how to communicate effectively... few can contribute anything. two pages shared on this thread... and now kyra makes another attempt with her thread "Effective Communication"

Yeah... I have bug up my ass with when it comes to communication. Just ask my girls what it is like for them when they communicate poorly. When they are lazy in how they communicate. Just ask them how pissed I get at myself when I poorly communciate my thoughts. Frankly.. I not any where near as good of a communicator as I want to be.

So... be it this thread.. or kyra's.... What do you do.. to have EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION. Because maybe there are those out there that is trying to get alot better than they are now.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 35

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 4/22/2007 11:30:58 AM

truesub4u

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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Afternoon KoM.. long time no see there. I have a question for your post here.

I agree with the last statement you made in you post. But... with an added exception. The other day I was reading a thread on here about asking questions and bottoming from the top.

So if there's suppose to be all this communication... and "understanding".... where does one fall?

I'm a curious little shit. If I do not understand something.. someone.. i'm gonna ask questions. So that I can understand what the conversation is really about. Because I'm not one to beat around the bush, I'm gonna stomp right thru it to get the answers.

So my question to you...and the others on this topic.. is this.. when the line of communication is opened, but you're not understanding everything being said "what is totally required of you, do and don'ts... etc..." is it wrong to question...so as to understand?...And if it's not..why do some get so mad about it? And if it's is wrong.... why?

Not trying to reopen other thread... just trying to understand this "communication" topic. Because it seems we're damned if we do...and damned if we don't.

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Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 36

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 4/22/2007 11:38:15 AM

puella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Communication is not measured by how well we speak/write.... but by how well we understand and are understood!

And perhaps, how much we want and are willing to hear.

_____________________________

We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom...... The Simpsons

War is God's way of teaching Americans geography." ...Ambrose Bierce

"Don't you oppress me!"....Stan/Loretta

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 37

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 4/22/2007 11:40:53 AM

truesub4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

Communication is not measured by how well we speak/write.... but by how well we understand and are understood!

And perhaps, how much we want and are willing to hear.

Ok now this I understand...and so I feel is true.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to puella)

Post #: 38

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 4/22/2007 11:44:22 AM

jauntyone

Posts: 543
Joined: 2/27/2007
From: Anchorage Alaska
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Greetings KnigtofMists Sir

Communication, for myself, begins first with my own ability to be honest with myself. If I can not do that, I can not effectively inform Master of when there is an issue that must be worked out.

I wish you well

melissa

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 39

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 4/22/2007 12:00:39 PM

cariad

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Joined: 9/25/2004
From: Calgary, Alberta
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Greetings KnightofMists Sir:

my father always said "it's not what you say but how you say it." i have since learned to use words like "i feel," "i felt," thereby eliminating blame on the other person but instead taking responsibility for my own feelings.

recently i had to use the "i feel" with someone to communicate clearly what it was i was trying to say and although the other person totally misunderstood me until i explained why i was using the "i feel" scenario and after that things went much smoother than had i said "you make me feel," when speaking with him.

i try to do as another person posted .. listen, repeat what they said so that i can better understand what it is they are trying to say and if there is any miscommunication it helps clear it up on my end when i ask "so are you saying ..........?," or "if i am not mistaken you are saying..............?"

Blessed Be
cariad

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The Path To Being A Good slave Takes Hard Work, A Willingness To Learn, Ability To Take Criticism and the Ability To Take Punishments Well. i Am Still Learning So Please Be Patient With me, As i Walk the Path to Being A good slave. SLRN: 742 958 000

(in reply to jauntyone)

Post #: 40

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