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Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 11:07:15 AM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

We all hear it... Communication is the Key.... Communicate to your partner and things will be worked out... communicate communicate communicate..... To often I see this term waved around like it is a magic wand. But in truth... What is it to communicate... what are the skills and/or components needed to make communication successful. I whole hardly agree that communication is an important and even critical aspect to the foundation of any relationship, but we need to know how to do it first. So what works for you?

Communication is not measured by how well we speak/write.... but by how well we understand and are understood!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

Post #: 1

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 11:14:25 AM

Halifaxslave

Posts: 32
Joined: 7/16/2005
Status: offline

Your last paragraph is spot on. I only have a grade 12 and my only parent had just a grade 5 so I am not too smart.

However, I understand your angst. The BDSM community likes to use the word, "communicate" as if communication in BDSM is of so much a higher quality than in the vanillia world. Folks, it's all vanillia lol!

The standards for communication are the same in and out of that collar, neither needed more nor less than in any of your other relationships...doesn't mater if it is your lover, boss, friend, or the guy at the gas station; communication is all the same.

< Message edited by Halifaxslave -- 9/24/2005 11:15:51 AM >

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 2

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 11:19:00 AM

ChereeAmoor

Posts: 185
Joined: 8/1/2005
Status: offline

What works for us here is directness. None of us are all that good at mind-reading, and hints are generally written down on paper and tied around a rock and lobbed across the room........nahh, I am just being silly there.

We avoid words like "always" and "never" except in positive ways, i.e. "You always make me feel so good" and "I never thought I would be so lucky". We rely heavily on compliments and manners and questions. When it comes to communications, Occam's Razor is well in use here.

(in reply to Halifaxslave)

Post #: 3

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 11:51:03 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

And you not only communicate with your voice. You also communicate with your body language and facial expressions, those are important components.

(in reply to ChereeAmoor)

Post #: 4

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 1:25:05 PM

EmeraldSlave2

Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Self deprecating humor is a good way I work through things. I also do self-commentary on things. Here's an example of something I considered was worked out through good communication. Tonight is a big local event for my group and earlier in the week I asked one of my partners if he would be my date for the evening. He said he couldn't do it because he would be busy moving. Then he was asked to be the demo person for the workshop and so decided to go to that. That somewhat miffed me but was understandable and it's something I've done myself (changed plans when I knew someone else would be there or have some other advantage). Then I found out he was trying to plan dates with others for that evening to play. This definitely upset me after being told no.

SO last night when we talked I pretty much said what I said above. I told him that I would prefer to see him and his friends rather than not see him at all, but was upset at being told no and then him making other plans like that. He said he could understand my perspective andwe moved on from there.

Now, we aren't eachothers primary partners at all. So our issues only go so deep and there's a lot more leeway for friendship to come into play versus intimacy. But communication takes understanding, introspection, looking beyond the immediate issue into the long term issues and allowing yourself the vulnerability to say things you know the other person might not want to hear.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 5

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 2:31:04 PM

mystictryst

Posts: 125
Joined: 9/6/2005
Status: offline

For me, listening and not making assupmtions are the most essential part of communicating with in my relationship.

Too often, I let my emotions get the best of me (or feed me nonsense). If I can back away from my emotional self and look at the situation, I am often more likely to actually see the situation from a different direction.

The other thing that works is saying to my Master "I'm not communicating what I need to say!" (usually said in frustration) and he is able to coach me through. This is something we started doing recently (as we've bother suffered from not being able to communicate).. Just declaring that the other isn't hearing/listening/understanding. It is an alert that something just isn't going right. We will then sit down and start over.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 6

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 3:43:02 PM

aurora31

Posts: 266
Joined: 8/18/2005
Status: offline

I tend to get very nervous and tounge tied when trying to comunicate my wants/needs/desires. I even have a hard time describing what it is that I am looking for in a D/s relationship....I just can never seam to find the right words. A trick that I learened long ago in the vanillia world was if I read something that articulated what it was that I was trying to say...I would share that story/artical with my partner it would then act as a catalyst for discusion and it also helps me get over my intial shyness and/or embarassment. I have been critized for this bye some as they say I want what someone else has...thats not it at all...it is just a tool I use to more effectivly comunicate. And for me now someone who is not willing to understand that is usually someone who tends to be forgotten...I truely believe that when I find my one(god I hate that term but for lack of a better one) He/she will be someone who will embrace my need to get things started in this way.

aurora

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 7

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 3:49:16 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Communication is overrated. What matters is understanding. Sometimes people spend so much time communicating that they fail to understand each other.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 8

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 6:00:26 PM

LordVinister

Posts: 3
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline

Communications plus or minus is the key to a good relationship. Whether you agree or diagree,at least you had your say,expressed your thoughts. It's a good and positive thing to do builds character, you must understand before your are understood.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 9

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 6:45:38 PM

domtimothy46176

Posts: 670
Joined: 12/25/2004
From: Dayton, Ohio area
Status: offline

One of the things I've finally learned is that "I" statements really are much more effective than "You" statements. In a perfect world, perhaps, submissives, slaves and bottoms would never take umbrage, get offended or have hurt feelings. In my reality, however, I've found that often how something is said makes a world of difference.
Timothy

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 10

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 10:29:29 PM

OscarHargraves

Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline

One thing that works for us is to communicate outside of play time. If one of us has a problem that needs to be handled we wait until we are both calm and not playing, then we discuss things. At these times she is my friend and my equal and her opinions are welcomed. If there is a disagreement then we work it out at that level so she doesn't feel that I am always making decisions and shoving them down her throat. Now please note that I am talking about important things that could cause problems later, not mundane things or minor issues.

And Yes, agree that understanding is the important part of communication. BOTH parties need to understand the other's viewpoint and reasons.

_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 11

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 10:56:50 PM

Sunshine119

Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline

I agree. Communication is very overrated. What is communication? The telling of something by one and the hearing of that thing by another. Several pitfalls are inherent in this process. One can try and tell someone something which they may chose not to or be incapable of hearing. Communication depends upon the good-will of both people (or more) involved. Communication also depends upon the other(s) relating their ideas, concerns, etc to you and you interpreting these correctly.

People in all walks of life assume "communication" solves all ills. My experience, in the vanilla world as well as BDSM has been less than rewarding in these area. Waving a magic wand and holding communication as a BDSM truth makes it no more or less real than in the vanilla world. Communication is only possible between people who hold the same value in communication and care about the person with whom they are "communicating". People lie. And that is communication too.

To me what is more important is respect, concern and caring. If I have these three, everything else, for me, comes into focus. "Communication" becomes the next step.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Communication is overrated. What matters is understanding. Sometimes people spend so much time communicating that they fail to understand each other.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 12

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/24/2005 11:54:35 PM

NakedOnMyChain

Posts: 2431
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

Communication is not measured by how well we speak/write.... but by how well we understand and are understood!

Exactly! It is definitely a valuable aid to the communication process if you speak and write well, but the crux of the matter is being able to express yourself. My husband and I communicate wonderfully with each other and have since the moment we met. It takes constant work and effort, but it pays off. I suppose my best advice to you would be threefold:
1.) Talk, talk, talk. Sometimes you won't want to. Sometimes she won't want to. Either way, unless you just can't face it, sit down and discuss your problems. Don't yell, don't get mad, just have a conversation about the way life is going, and always fight fairly. You might have to swallow your pride a bit in the process, I know I have to, but it is worth it. Alternatively, don't be afraid to talk about the good things in your life, too. It's always nice to hear something positive.
2.) Be receptive. In your conversations listen deeply to what your partner has to say. You may be dying to tell her something, you may be very angry, you may just not feel like listening, but listen anyway. Don't turn the conversation immediately towards yourself. Listen to how your partner feels first. Process what she has said before responding. Also, it helps for both of you to feel that you could go to your partner with anything, however trivial, however major. Nurture that feeling.
3.) If you can't talk it out at any particular moment, write down how you feel. If it's too painful, maddening, embarassing, or too anything to have a heart to heart, put it on paper. This has helped me through some really sticky situations. When you write something down it gives you the opportunity to think about what you'd like to say before you say it. You can formulate thoughts more clearly in this medium, and it keeps you from saying rash things that you might later regret.

I'm not going to lie to you, it's tough. It's one of the most difficult things to do effectively, but these are the things that have gotten my husband and I through the rough times.

_____________________________

"Oh, it's torture, but I'm almost there."
~The Cure

"I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave."
~The Labyrinth

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 13

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/25/2005 12:33:24 AM

buffiyum

Posts: 119
Status: offline

Sir,
i think effective communication begins with 'attitude'.... to listen and not only let the words 'wash over one' but to be willing to take those words in, savour them a momente, roll their meaning around in our minds until we can then reply from a stance of either understanding what was said or asking for clarification if we do not. An attitude which says ' i do not know it all and maybe i can learn something here'.
Honesty is very importente too.... otherwise all the words in the world mean nothing because they are base on an untruth.
One problem i have found with online communication is that writing is so easily open to mis interpretation. There is not the facial expressions or hand movements or voice inflection to also go with the words.
respectfully,
buffy

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 14

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/25/2005 12:36:31 PM

pinkpleasures

Posts: 1114
Status: offline

There is a skill called "active listening" in which the speaker states his/her feelings/wants/needs/gripe; and the listener must reiterate the speaker's message until the two agree on what the speaker said or meant to say. Following this, the listener speaks, with the same care given.

Obviously a skill you'd reserve for intimates, or people you were in conflict with, but it IS a skill; most people are so busy forming a retort they do not focus on what is being said.

pinkpleasures

_____________________________

(in reply to buffiyum)

Post #: 15

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/25/2005 12:48:59 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Let's be real.......

Communication works best if you ignore the slut for at least 6 months.

When she has worked out all the scenarios that somehow women see, then she may be able to talk reasonably so that a man could listen.

Barring that, I guess that give and take is part of life and something I will have to do until the day I die and it won't matter after if anyone understood what I was feeling or not.

Let's not make this a big deal.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Post #: 16

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/25/2005 12:56:07 PM

MsPurrmeow

Posts: 261
Joined: 10/30/2004
Status: offline

Some other points that people tend to forget, but work very well...

1. Anger or speaking loudly does not make it easier to understand.
"Do not mistake the strength of your conviction with the strength of your argument."

2. Be willing to concede when you are wrong. The average person respects the truth over being "right". Withdraw erroneous comments and admit your mistake and you are more likely to be seen as a reasonable person.

3. Be willing to back up your statements with facts.

4. Try not to be repetitive. It will only caused annoyance or the other person ignoring you. (Not offensively, just that their brain will move on to thinking about other things.)

5. Expect debate and argument, and do NOT mistake those two words for "fight." Deconstructing an emotional situation into the Why's, How's, and How-not-to-do-it-again is important. Most people admit that they cannot always find the right words to explain where they are. Walking through a situation word by word and feeling by feeling can help identify where the fear comes up and how it manifests itself in their actions.

6. Schedule your communication. Do not ambush a partner with an argument. Find a quiet time, or create one. Look them in the eye and speak softly. Hold hands if you need it to keep the connection.

7. Be willing to take notes and write things down in a conversation. Make sure you have covered all points or "tabled" them for another scheduled conversation.

8. Find out about who you are talking to and the way they are most receptive to your communications and modify your own to assist in the understanding.

9. Find out about yourself and the way YOU are most receptive to other peoples communications and help them learn!

(For 8 and 9, research TypeLogic, Myers-Briggs, Jung Typology, etc. It is a simple process about coming face-to-face with yourself and how your brain wraps around ideas.)

Yes, this is the nerd's view, and it's a lot more detailed than just "talk, talk, talk" but if we really want to communicate, maybe there's more to it.

Purr

< Message edited by MsPurrmeow -- 9/25/2005 12:57:19 PM >

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 17

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/25/2005 1:50:38 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Dear Ms,

You know........number two should really be number one. Other than that I agree in whole and in part with you. Well said. Everyone makes mistakes, Doms are only right by agreement, not by anything real.

Seriously now,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to MsPurrmeow)

Post #: 18

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/26/2005 5:53:26 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

I tend to get very nervous and tounge tied when trying to comunicate my wants/needs/desires. I even have a hard time describing what it is that I am looking for in a D/s relationship....I just can never seam to find the right words. A trick that I learened long ago in the vanillia world was if I read something that articulated what it was that I was trying to say...I would share that story/artical with my partner it would then act as a catalyst for discusion and it also helps me get over my intial shyness and/or embarassment. I have been critized for this bye some as they say I want what someone else has...thats not it at all...it is just a tool I use to more effectivly comunicate. And for me now someone who is not willing to understand that is usually someone who tends to be forgotten...I truely believe that when I find my one(god I hate that term but for lack of a better one) He/she will be someone who will embrace my need to get things started in this way.

aurora

I find that a largish number of people I deal with, especially clients of mine, have a problem in communication. They either can’t find the words or are too embarrassed to speak openly. One “trick” I have found which helps many of them is to spend however long over how many days it takes to write it down in simple basic English.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

I agree. Communication is very overrated. What is communication? The telling of something by one and the hearing of that thing by another. Several pitfalls are inherent in this process. One can try and tell someone something which they may chose not to or be incapable of hearing. Communication depends upon the good-will of both people (or more) involved. Communication also depends upon the other(s) relating their ideas, concerns, etc to you and you interpreting these correctly.

People in all walks of life assume "communication" solves all ills. My experience, in the vanilla world as well as BDSM has been less than rewarding in these area. Waving a magic wand and holding communication as a BDSM truth makes it no more or less real than in the vanilla world. Communication is only possible between people who hold the same value in communication and care about the person with whom they are "communicating". People lie. And that is communication too.

To me what is more important is respect, concern and caring. If I have these three, everything else, for me, comes into focus. "Communication" becomes the next step.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Communication is overrated. What matters is understanding. Sometimes people spend so much time communicating that they fail to understand each other.

Here I must disagree. I will concede that to much bad communicating happens, however good effective communications can not be over done as long as commonsense and timing is applied. Now I will admit that my experience in the BDSM community as such, is minimal (which suits me fine as I’m not a socialising person unless it is with people I know, like and whose company I enjoy). However my experience is in a wider area encompassing other lifestyles as well as the “vanilla” world. Half of my time counselling is teaching people how to listen, and how to communicate effectively as well as reading body language.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Sunshine119)

Post #: 19

RE: Communication!!!!!!?????????????? - 9/26/2005 6:32:06 AM

ProtagonistLily

Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

There is a skill called "active listening" in which the speaker states his/her feelings/wants/needs/gripe; and the listener must reiterate the speaker's message until the two agree on what the speaker said or meant to say. Following this, the listener speaks, with the same care given.

Obviously a skill you'd reserve for intimates, or people you were in conflict with, but it IS a skill; most people are so busy forming a retort they do not focus on what is being said.

pinkpleasures

Sir employs active listening and requires me to as well. At first, I found this completely irritating; I'd say something and he'd say back what I just said and then he would say "Is that correct?" I'd never had someone employ this with me before and I felt at first that he was belittling me or making fun of me. As the relationship grew, I got used to it and I have found that it makes communicating and actually understanding the other person much easier.

Does this mean that we always agree or that things aren't sometimes difficult? No. However it does at least cut through the sidebar crap and keep the focus on the topic and pretty much closes down any distractions.

I disagree with Pinkpleasures that Active Listening should only be reserved for one's intimates. I have learned to employ it in lots of differant areas of my life and it's made things better.

I recently read, at Sir's request, the Dale Carnegie book "How to Win Friends and Influence People." I found it most helpful in communication all around.

He always says "6 thousand years of civilization and this is where we are at with Communications..."

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

(in reply to pinkpleasures)

Post #: 20

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