RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor

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giveeverything -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:02:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: giveeverything Bullshit! I'm confronting, as a white person, racisism and priviledge. It's more moral obligation. I'm not deteming anything for anybody. I am however very invested in creating a more equitable society. You absolve individual sin with institutional guilt. That is a determination. Show me where I have done that? I have discussed the idea of instiutional racism as a complicating factor. I have not absolved any individual. If anything the concept that the instutions we are involved in have racist practices makes us all more responsible.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:04:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Thanks for the non sequitor. I'm just teasing Sanity b/c he claimed to be a victim of racism himself, which is kind of funny considering where he's from. A rather dark humor, considering the implicit bigotry in your statement.

cloudboy -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:09:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 You fail to understand. I do not compare. I will not compare. I will not say that one man suffers more, I will not say another man suffers less. Comparison perpetuates the problem. Say a man suffers less and you dismiss his pain. Say a man suffers less and you render acceptable the fact that he is suffering. When you justify one man's suffering, you pave the way to justify any suffering. What of history? It is past. It is over. It is done. Leave the dead to bury their own dead. That's about the funniest reply I've ever read. Comparisons don't justify human suffering, they merely help put things in their proper perspective. O, and if you dismiss history, you pretty much deny yourself any cognitive grasp of the present.

giveeverything -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:11:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Thanks for the non sequitor. I'm just teasing Sanity b/c he claimed to be a victim of racism himself, which is kind of funny considering where he's from. A rather dark humor, considering the implicit bigotry in your statement. You don't find it a little irrational to be so worried about reverse-racism when you live in the whitest state in the union? It's irony... it's weird... it's irrational.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:12:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Comparisons don't justify human suffering, they merely help put things in their proper perspective. Putting things in "proper perspective" is justification. Individual experience is just that....individual. History is only a guide for the future. It is at best prologue.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:13:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: giveeverything You don't find it a little irrational to be so worried about reverse-racism when you live in the whitest state in the union? No, I don't.

Sanity -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:16:01 PM)
Try again, dear, this is just ridiculous now. Hispanics are fully capable of racism vs. nonhispanics. That was my point, and its fairly obvious that that was my point. You and cloudboy are going to great lengths to obfuscate this whole issue... attacking me, attacking Idaho, pretending that whites can't be discriminated against. That's the only reason why this is getting confusing, it has to be confusing in order to discount Pastor Wright's racist teachings and therefore Obama's own apparent racism. Go after Idaho, when the topic is Obama. Go after anyone who objects to racism, when there is no other possible way to deflect criticizm of your candidate. In the end though, Idaho will still be the greatest place on earth to live for people of any color, and Obama will still suffer from latent racism. quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Yes, I do need help. What's the difference between "white persons" and "white persons not Hispanic?" Am I a "white person," or am I a "white person who is not Hispanic." Are Hispanic's white persons? This is getting confusing. It's easy, Cloudboy. The difference is one of those supports Sanity's words and the other one doesn't. "where it says "White Persons" the Census Bureau normally counts Hispanics in that total number." Sanity doesn't want you to do what the Census Bureau normally does because then he can't say that your numbers are skewed. It's called spin. Politicians do it all the time. Forget the % of whites who are not hispanic and just go with the .7% black population to make your argument. Throwing out the gravy still leaves the meat. Carry on. Celeste

cloudboy -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:17:48 PM)
Yes, I'm having difficulty grasping the "racially oppressed white man" out there in Idaho. Maybe we need to send an Amnesty International delegation out there.

giveeverything -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:19:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Yes, I'm having difficulty grasping the "racially oppressed white man" out there in Idaho. Maybe we need to send an Amnesty International delegation out there. PFFFTS.... I spit out coffee.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:19:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: giveeverything Show me where I have done that? I have discussed the idea of instiutional racism as a complicating factor. I have not absolved any individual. If anything the concept that the instutions we are involved in have racist practices makes us all more responsible. In these words you most assuredly do absolve the individual. You transfer guilt from the individual to some ephemeral institution. That is absolution.

giveeverything -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:23:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: giveeverything Show me where I have done that? I have discussed the idea of instiutional racism as a complicating factor. I have not absolved any individual. If anything the concept that the instutions we are involved in have racist practices makes us all more responsible. In these words you most assuredly do absolve the individual. You transfer guilt from the individual to some ephemeral institution. That is absolution. I officially am unable to follow your logic.

giveeverything -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:26:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity In the end though, Idaho will still be the greatest place on earth to live for people of any color, I'm sure the people living out in Idaho where the aryan nations used to have their head quarters (before the southern poverty law center bankrupted them) felt great!

Sanity -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:27:04 PM)
You're not teasing me, you're making weak, stupid personal attacks because you've run out of argument. I've told you before cloudboy that I've been around the world, and you don't have the first clue what I've experienced. You keep falling back on your bigoted assumptions about Idaho because that's the best thing you have to defend the racist attitudes recently found in the mind of "the second coming of JFK, Ghandi, MLK and Jesus Christ" aka Barack Obama. quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy Thanks for the non sequitor. I'm just teasing Sanity b/c he claimed to be a victim of racism himself, which is kind of funny considering where he's from.

cloudboy -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:27:13 PM)
How does a comparison between murder and a simple assault justify one or the other? (As an example.) The distinction is that one is a misdemeanor and the other is a felony. (Both are still crimes.) In terms of societal and moral priorities, we'd best concern ourselves more with the murderer than the rude fellow who spit in your face and called you a name.

Level -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:28:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy How does a comparison between murder and a simple assault justify one or the other? (As an example.) The distinction is that one is a misdemeanor and the other is a felony. (Both are still crimes.) In terms of societal and moral priorities, we'd best concern ourselves more with the murderer than the rude fellow who spit in your face and called you a name. cb, why shouldn't we do both?

cloudboy -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:28:30 PM)
Well then, let's hear it. How have you been a victim or racism? Pony up.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:29:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: giveeverything quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: giveeverything Show me where I have done that? I have discussed the idea of instiutional racism as a complicating factor. I have not absolved any individual. If anything the concept that the instutions we are involved in have racist practices makes us all more responsible. In these words you most assuredly do absolve the individual. You transfer guilt from the individual to some ephemeral institution. That is absolution. I officially am unable to follow your logic. I know. So we begin again. I alone am accountable. Not some institution. Not Congress. Not "white people". Me. Alone. That which I do, I do alone. That which I do not do, I do not do alone. My sin is mine alone. My virtue is mine alone. Your argument places insitutions between individuals and any guilt that may be their just due. Your argument places insitutions between individuals and any merit that may be their just due.

giveeverything -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:30:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: giveeverything quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: ORIGINAL: giveeverything Show me where I have done that? I have discussed the idea of instiutional racism as a complicating factor. I have not absolved any individual. If anything the concept that the instutions we are involved in have racist practices makes us all more responsible. In these words you most assuredly do absolve the individual. You transfer guilt from the individual to some ephemeral institution. That is absolution. I officially am unable to follow your logic. I know. So we begin again. I alone am accountable. Not some institution. Not Congress. Not "white people". Me. Alone. That which I do, I do alone. That which I do not do, I do not do alone. My sin is mine alone. My virtue is mine alone. Your argument places insitutions between individuals and any guilt that may be their just due. Your argument places insitutions between individuals and any merit that may be their just due. Naw....I fell individuals should be held accountable for their bad behavior. Does that clear this up for you?

cloudboy -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:31:11 PM)
There's no implication that each isn't addressed, but advanced folks prioritize. According to Celticlord, the molehill is the mountain. According to me, a molehill is not a mountain. Level, be honest, would you rather be murdered or assaulted? Pick one.

Sanity -> RE: Interesting Quotes from Obama's Pastor (3/23/2008 1:31:22 PM)
All of Idaho came out against the Aryan Nation. Skinheads live everywhere... and so do racists of every color. But keep attacking the state I call home if that makes you feel better. Do you think it makes you look intelligent? quote: ORIGINAL: giveeverything quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity In the end though, Idaho will still be the greatest place on earth to live for people of any color, I'm sure the people living out in Idaho where the aryan nations used to have their head quarters (before the southern poverty law center bankrupted them) felt great!

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