quote:

ORIGINAL: night101owl
I'm not asking you to share any personal information that you're not comfortable sharing, but I am curious what kinds of legal bonds you've been able to create?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPurrmeow

snip

. They have to be able to say "No" for me to be happy that they said "Yes."


Purr

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

No offense, but I really have to offer some reality here:

**"Reality"... Hmmm, Just what is "reality"?
We A/all have our own verison of the truth, or "reality" for starters.
Your reality may or may not be in agreement of My reality.
Example: Two different people witness the same event, you ask them both what happened, and you get 2 different versions of the "truth".
Very simple, reality is what YOU percieve to be truth.(Your truth/reality)
Basicly based on an opinion, so reality is the WRONG word to use.

1. A collar, like any sign of commitment, is what you make of it.
**Um ty for *actually* reading my post, it honestly seems to me you repeated something I've already stated.

However, I see PLENTY more collars being handed out than engagement or wedding rings amongst lifestylers. Just ask yourself, how many collars have you (any reader) had or given versus how many times you (the reader) have been married? How about what you have observed from others?
**Well, no kidding, again did you even read my post??

When a collar legally entitles a slave/submissive to half of a Dominant's property (as if a married couple without a prenup), then collars will have just as much significance as a wedding ring and will be dispensed with a similar degree of consideration and contemplation. Until then, it's an enjoyable fantasy for the vast majority (though it can be accurate for a specific individual, and I know, everyone reading this says they're the exception).
**The reason why collars do not hold the same "legalities" is because *actually* owning a slave is illegal. (not like I should have even had to mention that)

The best analogy to be made for collars is that they're like giving someone your pledge pin. It signifies "going steady". For most that means going steady for a while, then breaking up and moving on. For some (relatively few), they go steady and then go on to get married and have a life together.
**well yes, but as I had stated I was vanilla for 4 yrs before even offering her a collar.
The collar's signifigance is in the eye of the beholder.

Historically, collars are a symbol of ownership. Some own more, some less. Some own it for a lifetime, others for just a night. It is what you make of it.
**repeat of what I (and others) have already stated. Man did you even *read* my post??

2. Just try to keep a slave/submissive from leaving your home because you refuse to uncollar him/her and see how fast the police end up on your doorstep.

**First off this goes back to you *actually* reading my post. I never said, I'd refuse their release, in fact part of the agreement is as an honorable Dom I would grant release.

If they stay, it's consensual. If they really want to leave, they leave.
**No kidding man, I'm seriously begining to think you did NOT read my post.

3. Any slave/submissive that "can't" leave on their own, particularly when their health (emotional or physical) depends upon it, suffers from a mental illness. I'm not being glib here, that's a serious mental illness and would (in my view) preclude someone from being able to offer consent in the first place.
**What you are talking about here is Co Dependency, not giving consent to being owned *completely*.

I know this may step on a few toes, but I simply see it as an interesting exercise in theory/fantasy vs. reality. Steel toed shoes are available at the front. Grab yourself a pair.
** the only stepping on toes I see here is you spouting off things I've already stated in my post, just changing the words a bit so it sounds original.
Next time try reading the post before posting a reply.

I know I probably just pissed you off, but if you are twue Dom, my words on a message board will not affect you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: night101owl
<snip>

In removing a collar, there is only the retraction of something earlier given in sincerity.

There is no "one twue way" for someone to be a slave. If they live in a nation like the US where slavery is illegal, then the construct of "slave" is NOT (as marriage is) something created and defined by society at large-- only one person determines what it means to be a slave, and that is the person who identifies as such. He may find pleasure in asking his master to define what it means to be a slave, but he always has the final say, every moment, every day, in whether or not to accept that man's definition. Likewise, he may ask his master to decide whether or not to end the relationship, but he determines whether or not to follow his partner's decision. If he finds pleasure in obedience, then he is most likely to pursue that pleasure and obey, but the choice is always his.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

An interesting concept however
**You nailed it exactly, it IS a concept, nothing in this life is set in stone, otherwise we would be living in a "Perfect" world.

<snip>
and I for one would not want a slut around that really didn't want to be with me....of course this is just the view of this ol MASTER
**I agree, which is why I WOULD grant release.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I've had 3 Dominants, 1 collar and I've released myself once.

A submissive/slave has as much right to be happy as a Dominant/Master. If the relationship makes you miserable, either party has the right to end it. It's called reality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsPurrmeow

<snip>

They have to be able to leave for me to be happy that they have stayed. They have to be able to say "No" for me to be happy that they said "Yes."

**This is SO true, & well said, but really isn't too far off from things I've previously stated.
Purr

quote:

ORIGINAL: sting516

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I've had 3 Dominants, 1 collar and I've released myself once.

A submissive/slave has as much right to be happy as a Dominant/Master. If the relationship makes you miserable, either party has the right to end it. It's called reality.

While i would agree with this concept for a submissive, i can't go along with that if one is an owned slave (using the bdsm context)...slaves have only the rights afforded by their owner...and even those can be taken away...i will agree that the slave has the right to want to be happy, but once they give themself to an Owner, it is the Owner who will help determine their happiness.

Just my opinion.

sting

quote:

ORIGINAL: Auralise

Hello A/all.

It seems as though several underlying issues are going on here. We can chew the fat over many of them discussing what is right vs. wrong and whether or not we are truly slaves if we feel the need to leave a detrimental situation. Without going into all the ins and outs, it seems that it boils down to this:

Slavery is something we enter into freely. It is understood that many things may OR may not happen during the course of the relationship. These 'things' are completely up to the Master as to what will and will not occur. We trust that the Master is wise and capable to honor an agreement - verbal or written - that will not strip away at our core a/k/a spiritual happiness. However, once the line is crossed regarding mental anguish on a emotional-relationship level (play humiliation and other BDSM activities not included) it seems the slave may be incapable of finding enjoyment in service to said Master. If this is the case, being resentful to such a degree would eventually effect her service - even if only in mental capacity, thus making her miserable and untrue (spiritually) to her Master, subsequently to herself, and to slavery as a whole. In turn, this inner turmoil has all the ingredients for the making of a bad slave. If worse came to worse and the above scenario became the reality in the house, it seems more than reasonable that the slave would request release out of respect not only for her Master, and her future Master, but to herself as well.

I believe that Master's can act in 'unmastering' ways - in which case they inadvertently relinquish ownership (true emotional ownership) inside their acts. Once that occurs, they have made wounds that quite possibly cannot be healed or wounds that will take a great deal of time to heal. This also goes for slaves to - they can act in un-slave-like ways and be released.

The best slaves are happy slaves, as we all know. Take the happiness away and you have nothing more than a really bad life. It seems this would make it imperative that the slave keep the idea of slavery pure in heart - without the 'idea' being blackened by a Master's misuse or general lack of care. It would honor 'slavehood' to leave your Master before becoming another jaded slave, just adding extra baggage for the next Master she serves.

We must always be careful as to what we allow ourselves subjection to - in time, day in and day out, these subjections are what makes our life as a whole. In this regard i would never give an unworthy Master power to jade me for i know that his jading would affect my outlook on the beauty of slavery in general.

Now, does this make me not a slave at all - a worse slave - or a better slave? Well, i think it makes me a far better slave for the next Master. i was protecting His property before he even had it. To me, this makes a very good slave. Does it really matter what an 'un-mastering, abusive' Master thinks when i leave?

I know this is probably not going to be a very popular response and i fully intend it to get ripped apart, but self preservation is the only thing that keeps us happy in this life. We only endure what we allow ourselves to endure. We should make damned sure that our endurance does not rip or strip our soul, causing an innocent party to help deal with or clean up the mess. A Master can break His toys in more ways than one. No one should expect another Master to want someone elses broken toy. That isn't to say another Master wouldnt be willing to help heal a slave, but wouldn't it be nice if they didn't have to? Wouldn't it be the right thing to protect His property for Him, even if you have yet to meet?

i mean no disrespect - i am just viewing slavery as a Soul-calling above a 1 abusive Master-calling. It seems preservation is key in the heart of a slave.

Blessings, auralise

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel

It is a mistake to try to overlap the rules of two different beliefs. We all obviously know the legal implications, but there is a higher emotional, psychological and ethereal basis. Try to tell a slave that she has to leave her Master because the law says it is not legal for her to be held in servitude.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

i realize that most do not take the terms Master and slave seriously, do not take the term ownership seriously, within this lifestyle, but for those of us who live and breathe this existence, we understand the depth of its significance, and imo it is far more significant, and far more binding, than a legal marriage.

i am a slave...have been owned for 5 years. love my Master, adore my Master, worship my Master. but the bottom line is, i am his property. which means that i have no rights, i am entitled to nothing, and i cannot leave him. yes, he has given me the priviledge to beg for my release if things ever got to be that bad. however it would be HIS choice and his choice alone as to whether or not i were actually released (and knowing him, i can say that he isn't likely to release me under any circumstances). he has the right to treat me however he pleases, and that means he can treat me like his little princess, or he can abuse me physically, emotionally and psychologically until there is nothing left of me. i am sure some are reading this thinking, "what fantasy world is she living in? hasn't she heard that slavery isn't legal in this country?" well, slavery being illegal doesn't change the fact that i am owned and that if i attempted to leave my Master very likely my life would be at risk.

here's my reality: i have no money, no car (or ability to drive), no friends beyond my Master, i go almost nowhere without him and absolutely nowhere alone, all of my communications with the outside world are monitored, i've never lived independently so have no knowledge of paying bills, running bank accounts, etc....all of this aside from the fact that emotionally and mentally i cannot fathom an existence without him, that i need him as much as i need food and shelter. and there is something that perhaps most folks do not realize...there are legal ways of enslaving a person, controlling their lives and futures, far more indestructable than marriage. if i were to attempt to leave him, legal and medical authorities would not exactly be on my side.

part of being truly owned is psychological conditioning. and sometimes that is all it takes to keep a person bound and powerless forever. but some Masters go those extra steps of physically and/or legally controlling someone to the point where leaving is impossible. for me there is only one way out of this relationship...death. and that is just the way it should be, just the way i and a select few others need it to be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

i realize that most do not take the terms Master and slave seriously, do not take the term ownership seriously, within this lifestyle, but for those of us who live and breathe this existence, we understand the depth of its significance, and imo it is far more significant, and far more binding, than a legal marriage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExistentialSteel

This question is often turned around the other way. How could a Master release a slave against her will? That is the event that happens far more often than a slave desiring to go. When that question is posed, the responses will deal with the honor and duty of the dominant, I suspect. Slaves do become helpless to some degree because of their need. Releasing a slave is far more serious than doing the legal mumbo jumbo to end a loveless marriage. Alimony won't fix a slave's psyche.

quote:


If this is interesting to anyone else, please let me know. We can also move this to another forum if anyone wants to open further discussions. I have no shame or secrecy in my answer, it just seemed off-topic for this thread, and likely a lot more cerebral than most people here would want to be subjected to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FLButtSlut


And someday, your master will become infirm and unable to care for you, then what? It is HIS duty to teach you to function in the world because no one lives forever.

To say that others don't take the term "slave" seriously because they don't see it as you do is making a statement out of ignorance rather than knowledge. Giving someone the right to abuse you physically and emotionally "until there is nothing left" is not the most intelligent decision a person can make, but it certainly was your choice to make. It is not your choice to tell others that their choices are wrong because they don't agree with yours.

quote:

ORIGINAL: krikket

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

i realize that most do not take the terms Master and slave seriously, do not take the term ownership seriously, within this lifestyle, but for those of us who live and breathe this existence, we understand the depth of its significance, and imo it is far more significant, and far more binding, than a legal marriage.

ahhh..to be so young and so sure of myself, my partner, my life..

on second thought..i don't think i was ever "that" young..lol.

While there are lots of things in your post i don't agree with, this particular paragraph offends me the most. Since you have no friends of your own, don't go out into the big, wide world alone, have all of your activities and communications monitored, i have to ask..how did you come to the conclusion that "most" don't take the terms or lifestyle seriously? Imho, that's a totally pompous and arrogant statement -- not to mention ignorant. You've been with your master since you were 19, so no matter how many friends you had as a teenager, most of them (hopefully) have now grown and gone onto more adult interests than they had when so much younger. Earlier tonight i was reading a forum on brainwashing, and most of us thought that while certainly possible, it was a time consuming and difficult task, and a few even asked why a dom/master would want to do that since the sub wouldn't have much to bring to the relationship. i know that there are some who only wish to have a partner who mimic's what they're told, that won't rock the boat with independent thought, and that's fine for them..just as long as they don't claim that because i'm not that way i'm less a sub or slave than they are..that i'm less than anything that they are...

just my 2 cents worth..

jimini


edited cuz i can't spell..lol