RE: Unfair Punishment

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YourhandMyAss -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/19/2008 8:39:51 AM)
It is in my opinion not safe, wise, nor right to beat someone when angry as you seem to be indicating you did. It's very easy to fly off the handle or go overboard when angry because one is typically not in the right mind frame, and can do real violence, and damage. since you say so yourself it's so tore up he had to miss work, i think you need to apologise to your submissive and I think he has every right to be angry and even fear you a bit. If it'd been me you did that to I would divorce you and walk out on you. And I might even file charges for abuse. You were wrong period. You;ve fucked up huge. Based on your journal too you seem to be very punishment happy and for extreams spilling soda doesn't in my opinion deserve a caning. You seem to have no clue how to temper punishment. it's not all or nothing, it's not one deal fits all. Sure take away his cola consumption for a while, but caneing him over it? WAAAAAAAAAAAAY over the top and un nessisary for such a minor infraction. quote: ORIGINAL: MaxineANDjohnnie I was really pissed by then, I wore out the bundle he had brought and had to go out and cut some more myself.

xxblushesxx -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/19/2008 10:10:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaxineANDjohnnie We have been married a year & 1/2 and had been in a relationship for 3 years before that. I'm confused, because in August of 2007 you posted: "We have been married two years next month" Just something that jumped out at me. Irrelevant, really, but, if you don't know how long you've been married, and you're forgetting conversations and punishing your husband for it, perhaps you should take some time away from wiitwd for a bit...

MaxineANDjohnnie -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/19/2008 5:20:38 PM)
We were married in Sept 2006, began seeing each other in 2003. He moved in with me in 2005.

MaxineANDjohnnie -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/19/2008 6:48:27 PM)
Good advice. What we have is a lot like a parent child relationship. Thank you Smythe.

Urza -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/19/2008 7:36:40 PM)
Once I was tied to my bed and my partner at the time was doing various things setting up for some play. The TV was on with a quiz show. One question was really easy and I sarcastically commented the awnser. Like you do when you watch TV and know the answer. My partner took offense and switched off the tv, saying how stupid and bad I was for not being attentitive and watching TV instead of concerntrating on her and the scene we were building. Initaially what bullcrap, why can't I notice other things around especially if I don't really have a choice, Shes just being nasty because the control slipped, i should play along but what crap :@ (anger) then 1 minute later i cried. For 2 hours, tied with her stroking me saying that she doesn't hate me and how it's all ok and i didn't fail her. I truly felt abandoned and totally alone, her soothing hand stroking my hair and cradling me. It got to her watching me cry over this, a huge metalhead man who looks indestructable reduced to a sobbing and shivering wreck. It was so intense, i released control and spend the rest of the weekend totally devoted to her. The point is these things build up and occasionally the bastard voice of reality and reason hit home, this isn't right we should live with 50/50 control etc, but it's once you get over yourself and re-submit to your dominant that you truly feel stupid. Because you've resisted and been selfish more than ever you feel so stupid and sorry about the whole thing. I think what you've done is successfully punished your slave on a level which hit him mentally. I hope this works out for you because when I read what was going on it sounded beautiful the way he caved in just like I did. I don't like crying and being like that, but I needed her so badly. She was there for me, She was shineing brightly and was my saviour, at that point in time there wasn't in thing in the 'verse in our way. It made things very strong.

MaxineANDjohnnie -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/19/2008 8:19:32 PM)
Kirren This is not something I have done before, not a pattern. He had breakfast and lunch. The den alcove is just around the corner from the living room and I could hear him and see him when I looked. His circulation was not cut off. We have this arrangement for the rare occassions when I use the switch. I'm begining to get a little defensive about this, I did overreact this time. He wasn't given the beating for the late dinner. I punished him with corner standing for his attitude earlier and for being late with the groceries and perhaps that was unfair and perhaps we should talk more about these things. I am going to try and fix that. The beating was for his attitude after he came out of the corner. I overreacted sure, but it wasn't because of the late supper. Maxine

whipkicksmai -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/19/2008 8:38:33 PM)
From your original post it sounds like you want reassurance that you did the right thing, but now that you have seen the answers to you op, you don't like them and you are getting defensive, so why seek out answers in the first place. Admiting you were wrong takes guts and courage, and we all make mistakes doms and subs alike, it's admitting to them and owning up that is the hard thing to do, but by doing so shows a person in control. punishment when angry is always wrong, a punishment can occur at any time it doesn't have to be immediate, you would have been better off taking yourself away from the situation and calming down, so you could think rationally and then adminster any punishment if indeed is was warrented. Had you off calmed down you might have remembered that you agreed to change the shopping day and then would see that the punishment wasn't warranted. Maybe you do need a chore chart and make alterations on it if your memory is that bad. or simply write things down, there are those of us our here that do have short term mermory loss at times and writing things down helps to remember. There was one other point that irked me, you stated in one of your replies that you do not see yourself as an abuser. I don't think any abusers do see them selves as abusers. Doesn't mean to say the are not abusers they just haven't accepted that fact yet. Building trust up again is going to be a hard task, once it goes it's never easy to get back

MaxineANDjohnnie -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/19/2008 8:47:25 PM)
Thanks for your supportive remarks Urza. I have had some supportive e-mails from several male subs as well. I think they were too timid to post. I wish I hadn't sometimes. Thanks to everyone who posted with constructive crticism. And to Kirren, I just have to say this: I don't do that! I'm going to step away from this message board for a little while, I find it upsetting. Maxine

SixFootMaster -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/19/2008 9:53:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaxineANDjohnnie I was really pissed by then, I wore out the bundle he had brought and had to go out and cut some more myself. By the time I had come in from that I had cooled off, gave him a few more swatts sat down and watched a couple of hours of TV while he remained tied. As I read it, this is a big RED FLAG. You took out your fury on him, using a punishment that by your own words he hates, to the extent you had ot go and cut more switches before you were finally satisfied. It definitely sounds to me that you lost control. If so, then yes, your relationship has entered a new phase, one based more on fear of punishment than desire to serve. That means real damage has been done, and if you don't heal it, there's a good chance you'll lose the best part of him, if not all of it. FWIW Punishment serves two purposes - to provide a consequence of disobedience, and an avenue of repentance and atonement. It should never be used because you're "pissed off". Six.

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/19/2008 10:09:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaxineANDjohnnie I'm going to step away from this message board for a little while, I find it upsetting. Maxine Oh dear, the internet people are being mean again. This is horrible.

LadyJeelys -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/20/2008 4:34:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaxineANDjohnnie I'm begining to get a little defensive about this, I did overreact this time. Maxine, This may come as a shock, but manipulation isn't dominance either. You asked for advice. People gave you advice (I suspect the advice you wanted as "oh, that silly boy, he's just being stroppy; what you did was ok"). Because the advice you got didn't fit with what you want, now you want people to back off becuase, sniff, sniff, you're feeling defensive. Well, pooh. I thought about your post after I responded the first time, and something really just kept bothering me. Later I realized that I didn't see ANY remorse in your post. I didn't see any concern, other than "sniff, sniff, I don't want to be vanilla". No concern for the physical consequences. No concern for the emotion consequenes for your husband. I still don't see any remose. What's more, you assure us that you're not an abuser. But abusers don't show remorse. Abusers have to narrow down exactly what the victim did in order to justify their response. Abusers never see themselves as abusers. Abusers get really defensive when challenged. I'm not saying you are an abuser---your husband is the one who would know. But at some point remorse should help you step back and take a long look and really ask yourself "Have I crossed the line between BDSM and abuse?" In fact, each and everyone of us should be willing to ask ourselves that. Finally, and you can take this as just my opinion, but I just keep getting the impression that you were more insensed that he dared to have an attitude than insensed that you actually beat this man far beyond discipline or pleasure. It was like it was somehow shocking that he didn't turn around an go all subly instead of being human and being ticked off that you were being unjust. Then instead of being concerned for this great guy that you care enough to marry, you voiced concern that you couldn't live vanilla. I have to admit I don't get that. Sure, if you were a player kind of Domme or even a pro Domme, I could kind of understand--because in those relationships the activity is a little more central than in marriage. But in marriage, well, frankly there may come a day with you can't lift a whip, or a day when your slave can't be slave anymore--you could be in a wreck and be paralized, he could get MS....and you'd have to live pretty much vanilla. But in marriage, that's ok. It's ok to give up the "lifestyle" in favor of having this person you love and need in your life. I can only say, that if I'd hurt secondary to the point he was afraid of me, I'd be devestated because I care about him, not being in a "lifestyle". Sooo, I'm hoping this was all just the limits of expressing self on a forum. Otherwise, I hope you'll really take some of the advice you've been given.

Madame4a -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/20/2008 5:14:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyJeelys I thought about your post after I responded the first time, and something really just kept bothering me. Later I realized that I didn't see ANY remorse in your post. I didn't see any concern, other than "sniff, sniff, I don't want to be vanilla". No concern for the physical consequences. No concern for the emotion consequenes for your husband. I still don't see any remose. What's more, you assure us that you're not an abuser. But abusers don't show remorse. This is a very good point and I realize now something that was bothering me too, although I couldn't pin it down. Her post, and her journals (which is why I believe there is a pattern if you read them) are written matter of fact, and that bothered me a lot. It seemed like she felt this was a norm, and it doesn't seem like it -- particularly if she's here posting about it -- even she isn't she its the norm.

servantforuse -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/20/2008 6:40:42 AM)
You own him. He is your slave. You had every right to discipline him in any way you wished. He should have accepted his punishment without complaint..

xxblushesxx -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/20/2008 6:44:26 AM)
You did come here for advice, and I have to say that even though it wasn't what you wanted to hear, it was good advice all the same. Kirren is a friend who has given advice to HoneyMaster and myself when we've hit rocky patches, and she may not sugarcoat things, but she is honest, and she calls 'em like she sees 'em. When she says something, I tend to listen, because she's usually spot on. HoneyMaster has never lifted a hand to me in anger, and never would; but, when we fight, He has, at times, hurt me emotionally. I respect Him because when He is wrong, He admits it. It may take Him a day or two to process it, but if and when He is wrong, He comes to me with it, tells me why He was wrong, and does what He can to rectify it. How can you possibly fix things if you can't admit to what you did? Hurting someone so much that they can't work? Is that ok? I think you owe him not only an apology, but the amount of money he would have earned that day, since it's your fault he couldn't. I think that's reasonable; don't you? Do you allow him to post on the boards and read the boards? I'm sure he would like the validation that this thread would give him. Maybe it would help him to process what happened, because right now he's probably wondering if he's crazy, or if you are. (I'm not implying either one of you are, btw, I'm just saying when you get into such an intense situation, it may be difficult to process as a matter of course.) If you are the leader, you have the responsibility and the obligation to your property to do what's right, and to be woman enough to admit when you didn't. If you can't, it probably is time to take a break from this for a bit. Just my opinion.

sirsholly -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/20/2008 6:55:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse You own him. He is your slave. You had every right to discipline him in any way you wished. He should have accepted his punishment without complaint.. a slave trusts their master. a sub trusts their dom, and one spouse trusts the other. when trust is broken it can be impossible to get it back. i trust my Sir with my safety and if he ever treated me in the manner that she treated her husband/slave we would have some very serious issues to deal with. and beyond a doubt he would not lay a finger on me until the issues were resolved. it is called self respect.

LadyPact -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/20/2008 12:44:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse You own him. He is your slave. You had every right to discipline him in any way you wished. He should have accepted his punishment without complaint.. Ummmm. No, you don't. I'm sorry, but you're wrong on so many levels. There's a few specific reasons why many of us who have replied to this thread have thrown that word 'abuse' out there so much. The punishment, per se, was injust at best, harmful at worst. I doubt you'll see many of the Dominants on these boards rushing in to say what a great idea it was to bind someone, then sit in the other room for a couple of hours,with the tv on. That might be a fantasy of a sub, but you're not going to find many Dommes to do it, without checking circulation, and the sub's well being. One thing I hold in very high regard is that My sub knows that I will hurt him, but I will not harm him. There's no hesitation from him when he's asked if he believes that. I wonder what kind of answer we'd get if we asked Johnnie that question right about now? Personally, if I were his dominant, I probably wouldn't like the answer, and I'd probably be rather ashamed of Myself.

DesFIP -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/20/2008 12:47:09 PM)
quote: I punished him with corner standing for his attitude earlier and for being late with the groceries and perhaps that was unfair and perhaps we should talk more about these things. I am going to try and fix that. The beating was for his attitude after he came out of the corner. You punished him once for not doing something you had told him he didn't have to do. And then you compounded it by punishing him for resenting you punishing him unfairly in the first place. Good way for him to decide you aren't safe or trustworthy. If it were me, I'd be rethinking whether I would be there another minute. And I certainly wouldn't allow you to use any kind of an implement or your hand on me at all in the future.

stella41b -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/20/2008 1:05:35 PM)
I'm sorry but the moment you stop listening to your sub is the moment you stop being a Domme. If I'd have objected like he did it would have stopped all my previous Dommes in their tracks bar one. It might not have prevented the punishment, for it's the Domme who makes the decisions, not me, but it would have caused them to stop and think, and that would be a sign that communication still existed and I would have taken graciously what was coming. The one who didn't stop was soon after straight out the door and out of my life.

Leatherist -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/20/2008 2:06:45 PM)
My basic take on things of this nature would be-an Owner has to be trusted by property. Which means that whatever penchants you have for abuse-are kept in balance with the knowledge that you are dealing with a person, not just a thing. And that people can only take so much before they become damaged to the point that they lose utility.(cold to say that way-but true) The op basically went overboard-and now is trying to rationalize why ot was the fault of the property for this happening. Bullshit, the damage she did is going to take more than a hug and a fancy meal to fix. Better to have kept control to begin with-these things can never be taken back.

LadyJeelys -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/20/2008 3:25:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse You own him. He is your slave. You had every right to discipline him in any way you wished. He should have accepted his punishment without complaint.. That may work in fantasy, but in reality its simply not true. Relationships, even Owner/property relationships, are about two people giving and two people compromising. Relationships are also founded in trust...A Mistress MUST be able to trust her slave to speak up and trust her when something is wrong. If not, the relationship is doomed. Hopefully none of us are abusers (well, statistically, at least some of us are, but you get my meaning), which means we don't want to abuse our slaves. We're not bad people, we're not animals incapable of self control. More, a Woman with sense is going to be aware that men with slave-tendencies and desires will have fantasies along the lines of what you've written. Its up to us to let our slaves know that they must not accept abuse. Keep in mind, most Dommes are looking for intelligent, funny, nice men---not blank slates who will accept "anything". If we were after those blank slates who'd endure any kind of abuse, there wouldn't be so many Dommes out there looking for subs cause any twit would do.

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