RE: Unfair Punishment

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StormsSlave -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/21/2008 10:48:42 PM)
I have, in fact, as a sub, been subjected to something similar. There was no punishment for wrongdoing, however. Just a bad night. I posted a thread about it, if you're interested, and I'll dig it up for you if you like. I received some outstanding wisdom and insight from some of the most amazing people here. It put the last of it into perspective for me, and helped me finish my own healing. The healing began immediately, when My Lord realized he'd erred and hurt me. He apologized, and continues to apologize on the rare occasions it comes up. Being Dom doesn't mean being omnipotent, at least in our lives. In our lives, it means making the right decisions, and in this case, the right decision was to hold me, listen to me, and try to make it right. And, yes, hearing, "I was wrong. I am sorry," out of him made the biggest difference of all. You made a mistake. You screwed up. It happens. My advice is the same as many others. Own up to it. Take COMPLETE responsibility. My Lord left nothing on my plate. Any responsibility I hold I take on willingly and not through him. Hold him, love him, listen to him, no matter how much it hurts you to hear it. Let him work it out, and judge nothing he says. Bottom line, you were wrong, and he needs it. Trust me. It sounds to me like he's willing to move on. I hope you are, too. It would be a shame to end something which is good for both of you. Good luck. My heart goes out to you both.

LadyJeelys -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/22/2008 8:53:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AcademyForSlaves Training, training, training is the only way to help him overcome this occasional insolent behaviour. Hope this helps. Hmmmm. Interesting. Well, here's a point. "Training, training, training" may not be the only way to overcome this "isolent behaviour". See, human beings for the most part, whether slave or Mistress, have the ability to communicate via language. One of the hundreds of other ways to deal with this "insolent" behaviour would include using that ability to uncover and address the source of his so called "insolent" behavior. Besides which, discipline starts with order and regulation--no slave can receive discipline from chaos. I really just don't like it when people prey on submissives. Lots of submissives have the fantasy that this kind of treatment is good, and that they are not worthy of a basic level of respect. But dominants should know better. Let's be honest, we wouldn't be wasting our valuable time and energy on someone who wasn't worthy. Urgh, it just really erks me to think that someone could have or might in the future take advantage of my guy this way, all because he's submissive.

MaxineANDjohnnie -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/22/2008 9:31:19 AM)
Here is an exerpt from my journal from Thursday: "I spoke with johnnie this evening. He seems to feel he deserved the punishment. He did deserve to be punished but I went too far. I didn't tell him that though.I asked him about times that I punished him in the past when he felt that he didn't deserve it, I particularly mentioned the paperwork incident. He told me that I am making the decisions for both of us. When he is punished he feels submissive but if he accepts punishment that he feels unfair he feels even more submissive.He said that he was having a "mood problem" Sunday.I asked him if he wouldn't like to have some time off occasionally from the 24/7. I mentioned that I some times get tired of managing him constantly as well. He came back right away and said he would like to take a night class." We went out last night and had a great time. I think that johnnie is not all that frail psycologically and that things will be alright with him. Physically, I see a lot of people with tattoos in our society. I can't but think that those must have been painful to recieve and that they are marks that will be carried for a lifetime. I think that johnnie's lacerations and bruises will be gone sooner than that. johnnie will be alright and our relationship will be alright so those of you who were worried about him or us can relax. Maxine

ownedgirlie -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/22/2008 9:37:32 AM)
This is an interesting post, and dare I say, disturbing on many levels.

TNstepsout -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/22/2008 10:57:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaxineANDjohnnie Here is an exerpt from my journal from Thursday: "I spoke with johnnie this evening. He seems to feel he deserved the punishment. He did deserve to be punished but I went too far. I didn't tell him that though.I asked him about times that I punished him in the past when he felt that he didn't deserve it, I particularly mentioned the paperwork incident. He told me that I am making the decisions for both of us. When he is punished he feels submissive but if he accepts punishment that he feels unfair he feels even more submissive.He said that he was having a "mood problem" Sunday.I asked him if he wouldn't like to have some time off occasionally from the 24/7. I mentioned that I some times get tired of managing him constantly as well. He came back right away and said he would like to take a night class." We went out last night and had a great time. I think that johnnie is not all that frail psycologically and that things will be alright with him. Physically, I see a lot of people with tattoos in our society. I can't but think that those must have been painful to recieve and that they are marks that will be carried for a lifetime. I think that johnnie's lacerations and bruises will be gone sooner than that. johnnie will be alright and our relationship will be alright so those of you who were worried about him or us can relax. Maxine I am sorry, but this doesn't make it any better. If anything I am now more convinced than ever that you don't get it. Why didn't you tell him that you felt you had gone too far? Why did you imply that he might need a night off, when it was clearly YOU who overreacted? Why did you allow him to take the blame for a "mood problem" when it was you who made a mistake? Why did you imply that the only thing you need a break from is "managing him", again, making the problem all his? The fact that he will heal physically from the incident does not mean that the relationship will heal, nor that he will heal psychologically. You are twisting his mind to accept abuse and to consider it normal. You may have convinced yourself (and Johnny) but not me.

sirsholly -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/22/2008 12:38:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaxineANDjohnnie Here is an exerpt from my journal from Thursday: "I spoke with johnnie this evening. He seems to feel he deserved the punishment. He did deserve to be punished but I went too far. I didn't tell him that though. You went too far. You know you went too far but you did not admit this to him, nor did you apologize. Why do you feel this is okay?

xxblushesxx -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/22/2008 1:18:50 PM)
Ffs. There are very few here who are going to say that because your slave said it's ok, that makes it so. There are many abused women and men who go to court and stand up for their abusive counterparts. Still doesn't make it right. Why is it so difficult for you to tell him that you f''ed up and are sorry? Really. Makes him feel more submissive to be punished for something he didn't do? Really? pffttt...would make me want to grab the switch out of your hands and show you what 'switch' means. You messed up in the first place, but to compound it just shows the type of person you are. Domme isn't it.

Lockit -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/22/2008 2:47:15 PM)
Ignorance is bliss for some people. Denial is a way of life for some. The damage you do, whether accepted by someone who is clearly not in his own best interest is not proof to me that everything is right in the situation. So you're both confused to say the least. To continue to defend unhealthy emotional health... well... as I said... bliss and denial...

kaleique -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/22/2008 3:29:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaxineANDjohnnie "I spoke with johnnie this evening. He seems to feel he deserved the punishment. He did deserve to be punished but I went too far. I didn't tell him that though." I can't even begin to fathom myself putting up with punishment like this. However I think the thing that disturbs me more than anything is if YOU feel you went to far like you said in this post, why wouldn't you tell him that and apologize? A dominant can be wrong too. Its the ability to own up to be being wrong and taking responsibility for wrong doings that shows strength and wisdom in leadership. You would expect an apology from him for a mistake, why shouldn't he be given the same respect?

LadyPact -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/22/2008 6:19:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaxineANDjohnnie Here is an exerpt from my journal from Thursday: "I spoke with johnnie this evening. He seems to feel he deserved the punishment. He did deserve to be punished but I went too far. I didn't tell him that though.I asked him about times that I punished him in the past when he felt that he didn't deserve it, I particularly mentioned the paperwork incident. He told me that I am making the decisions for both of us. When he is punished he feels submissive but if he accepts punishment that he feels unfair he feels even more submissive.He said that he was having a "mood problem" Sunday.I asked him if he wouldn't like to have some time off occasionally from the 24/7. I mentioned that I some times get tired of managing him constantly as well. He came back right away and said he would like to take a night class." We went out last night and had a great time. I think that johnnie is not all that frail psycologically and that things will be alright with him. Physically, I see a lot of people with tattoos in our society. I can't but think that those must have been painful to recieve and that they are marks that will be carried for a lifetime. I think that johnnie's lacerations and bruises will be gone sooner than that. johnnie will be alright and our relationship will be alright so those of you who were worried about him or us can relax. Maxine I think this might be My last visit to this thread. Just because Johnnie thinks the punishment was 'deserved', doesn't matter to Me much. Anybody who's had any type of dealings with abuse victims knows that the perception of 'fair' and 'unfair' is skewed. More often than not, these are the influences of the abuser. Repeated patterns have an effect on the mind. Countless abuse victims spend years unlearning these things. All you need do is talk to any of the numberous people who have experienced abuse themselves to know this. Listen. I wish the two of you the best of luck. I really do. Not just for Johnnie's sake, but for yours as well. Eventually, if you keep going this way, there will be more incidents. More times of having to say you're sorry. More times that you remind yourself of having to 'make up' what went wrong. More regret, more guilt, more mistakes. You have an opportunity before you. You have the chance to fix this, make it right, and not go down the same path again. You received some wonderful opinions and advice in this thread. Take yourself out of the picture and hear them objectively. Maybe then, you'll see what the rest of us see.

Boondoggle -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/22/2008 6:59:38 PM)
My advice, at this point, is to seek out a councilor, both for yourself, and for you as a couple. I see that you live in St. Paul, and, being a Mpls resident myself, I know of at least one kink friendly councilor in town who will see couples (the one I see) and I know there are others.

LadyLolly -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/23/2008 1:12:44 AM)
Ok, having read everything, the posts, the profile, even previous posts - there is something not "feeling" right here. In spite of that... I kept waiting for something, anything to explain the OP's mindset, something that had been left out about the dynamic - something, anything. As a dominant, the "lip" and attitude requiring correction could very well be valid. For that matter a dominant can change thier mind and not necessarily need to recall what they decided before if they later chose differently (exceptions of course being negotiated limits and parameters). Some use consistancy to train, others inconsistancy. As a sadist the severity of the correction dosen't necessarily shock or squick me. Some s-types will deliberately provike a D to get a response or even to initiate a /D s exchange. There are all kinds of posible elements that are not the root issue here. It's one thing to have the capacity (and even derive enjoyment) to impart great intensity and another to do so with enough knowledge and control to do so without harm. It's not BDSM safe and sane sadism but perhaps unresolved anger and issues resulting in abuse or De Sade style sadism. In any case, the OP lacks control for some reason and should be far more concerned with that issue than she appears to be. It's a big red warning flag screaming DANGER, UNSAFE, BAD STUFF, WRONG!.. What does matter and is the foundation issue for the majority of respondents - and to my own mind, is the issue of loss of self control by the OP and subsequent "glossing" over of it. The OP mentions being afraid of "snapping" or losing it before. She should obviously be very concerned.about this and certainly does need to address and resolve the root cause behind it and master control of herself - both for her sake and for his. If therapy will assist in identifying, understanding and gaining control by all means make use of it. Perhaps there are underlaying issues the OP needs to resolve to help her maintain before she should allow herself to go there at all. None of us would be considered safe or sane if we insisted on blythy hopping, let alone dragging others, into a car with no brakes or steering .OP your instability of control is no small matter - get it together and under control before you run that boy and yourself into a wall. By all means do admit you have a control issue. Do discuss it with him and apologize. Do deal with it before there are more serious consequences.

thetammyjo -> RE: Unfair Punishment (3/23/2008 6:34:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaxineANDjohnnie johnnie will be alright and our relationship will be alright so those of you who were worried about him or us can relax. Maxine You need to remember that YOU are the one who brought this issue to this forum. Attempting now to blame those folks who gave you feedback for over reacting is both insincere and frankly not worthy of anyone calling herself/himself a dominant. Dominants take responsibility. I still stand beyond my idea of you using a chore chart and keeping track of any changes to your schedules as a well to help you avoid some communication problems. Now you can choose to ignore my advice and the advice of others but if you do please know that the problems will continue to rear up in your dynamic. Doing the same thing but expecting different results may be a sign of insanity -- I wonder how many people have heard that expression before.

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