RE: The Prodical Slave

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denimknight -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/2/2005 6:18:21 PM)
quote: DK - I appreciate your defense of women argument, however I think you may be off base on this one. I never felt like a "child" when I myself felt I deserved punishment for not only perpetrating the deception after our split, but for being responsible for that breakup at all. In retrospect, punishment probably is not appropriate in this case, because it was no defiance or disobedience that was in play, but.......weaknesses and failings I have yet to learn how to, dare I say it, "control". I know RainGod loves me, and I know he seriously considers his responsibilities as my Master, and since I was the one that original brought the word "punishment" into my "coming bacK", I think he felt that he needed to weigh that as well. I don't see him as sexist........I do see him as Dominant. If we are talking about a Domme in the same context, would that make her sexist as well? And speaking as a flesh and blood feminine type of submissive, I kinda like the idea of a "big strong man" teaching, defending, protecting and looking after me and my best interest. I wouldn't have it any other way. I am perfectly CAPABLE of taking care of myself, but God what a relief when I don't have to do it alone or that I can just "obey" sometimes and not have to "decide". It's part of what appealed to me about a D/s relationship in the first place. Someone in a few posts back brought up the idea that punishment might be something the submissive desires in order to "atone" for what she feels she did wrong, and for closure. I thought about that and I can relate that a part of me felt that I needed to prove I was prepared for that and would submit to that, after I had failed so miserably before. However, now that I have been forgiven, and we are making an effort to communicate better, I have let that go and the only thing I have to prove is that I am going to make my best effort to not repeat my mistakes. Know what I mean? I would never EVER consider RainGod sexist. He is PERFECT in my bok. Naturally in your relationship your happiness comes above anything else (with the exception of your safety). However, I think if anything I am using the circumstances of this case to consider something larger. It goes beyond you and into a set of ideologies and concepts that guide the dynamic of your relationship with him. I have no doubt that you would never consider him sexist. However, this is largely because he exists in your heart's blind spot. As you say he is perfect in your book. That in and of itself greatly slants your perception of him. I have the benefit (and drawback) of an entirely outside perspective. I have no feelings about Raingod one way or another and thus can objectively analyze him based upon his responses here. You asked the question of if we were talking about a Domme in the same context would actions/ideals that mirror Raingod’s make her sexist. Honestly, yes I think they would. Taking into consideration the technical definition of sexism to be having baseless preconceived notions about someone’s abilities based upon their physical sex or gender. With that said I will point out something that few seem willing to give me any credit for. I try to make very very few definitive, all or nothing statements. If you'll notice I have a tendency to present concepts in terms of "I think" or "It seems to me that" or "you might consider". I do this intentionally. While I take pains to remain a detached observer I also believe in the innate value of my fellow human beings. As a result regardless of what analytical findings I may come up with based upon the case study that has been presented here I wish you and your master happiness together or otherwise. Respectfully submitted dk

yinofsedona -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/5/2005 10:14:44 PM)
Good evening. i happened across this thread and having read it in its entirety felt compelled to speak….for the first time, actually, in a venue such as this. i am, by nature and lifestyle, a 44 year old female service oriented beta submissive/masochist. i also served, for 10 years, as Executive Director of a 5-county Family Crisis Center, providing prevention and intervention services for victims and perpetrators of domestic violence and sexual crimes. Additionally, i sat on the Executive Committee of the Board of the Statewide Coalition for as many years, helping to draft legislation, which later became law. One of the topics that i spoke frequently about was the difference between domestic violence and the BDSM D/s lifestyle…a difference which has always been crystal clear to me. i celebrate what i consider to be the true D/s relationship as it is solidly based upon trust and communication. …which is not to say it’s easy. Thank goodness for venues such as this as it promotes communication and open dialogue about the rather unique issues that we, in this lifestyle, encounter! Here are what i consider to be some primary differences between violent (ie dysfunctional) relationships and those of D/s. 1. The Cycle of Violence model. Escalation…Acute battery…Honeymoon phase. This is a cycle which increases in frequency and severity over time. This is not present in what i consider a healthy D/s relationship. Submissives/slaves do not live a life of “walking on eggshells”. They do not wonder if they will be alive the next day. Their life is not that of fear and agony. Their life is that of devotion, reverence, obedience and blissful servitude. There is no “safe word” in domestic violence. No CHOICE! There is no yin/Yang. No balance whatsoever. It’s all really about choice and consent, isn’t it. 2. The Power Wheel model. The Dom/me does not use the tactics that a perpetrator of domestic violence or sexual crimes employ to get what they want from their sub/slave. Google “Power Wheel”…you’ll understand. The true submissive/slave WANTS to serve, to please, to obey! This is how they are hard wired. They live this life by choice. They seek it, they follow it, they crave and need it. Lastly…the words “safe, sane and consensual” These words mean everything to the D/s world…and not a damned thing to a violent relationship. i am proud to say that i am a submissive and a slave. i am also intelligent and posses a healthy self esteem and sense of self worth. To me, life is about balance. Perhaps this is why i chose “yin” as a screen name. Out in the world i have been, and still am, in a position of upper management. When i come home, when i leave the office, when i leave the world outside, i want, i need to let it all go. i need to hand over the power, the control of my life to another. i Want to be protected, to be guided, to be loved, to be disciplined and yes…to be punished when deemed necessary. Like many, i find great catharsis in punishment. And YES, there is a little girl inside of me, too. There will always be. One who accepts that she wants and needs a parent, a loving Daddy. Why not??? What does a Daddy represent but love, safety, guidance, understanding, acceptance and direction? That’s a bad thing??? Hello!!!! And i truly wonder….the word “sexist”. Can it really be applied to our world? C’mon!! Think about it!! Safe, sane, and consensual Domination and submission. That’s what we’re about. Again…..Hello!!!! If someone has issue with sexism..perhaps they need to re evaluate their attitudes toward this life/lifestyle. Karl and Sigmond may have had a field day with me..but i say (and pardon my French, but) Fuck em! Who cares. I’m a happy camper!! And, in the end, what truly matters? Respectfully, yin of Sedona Aka julia

Lordandmaster -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/5/2005 10:56:04 PM)
RainGod, you've gotten a lot of good advice, but there's no right or wrong answer that any third person can give you. The answer is in your heart. Good luck to you both.

JustaTop -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/5/2005 11:40:16 PM)
Let's cut to the chase here,shall we? Are you going to be waiting for her to pull the rug out from you again after this? If you can't get past that in trusting her,just drop it now.[&:]

kimmypuss -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 2:03:12 AM)
hate to break it anyone , in here, but sounds like Love to me. That's where your big-time protocols fail. And that's ok, fellow humans. *huggs for them both.

RainGod -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 7:26:21 AM)
JustaTop posts: quote: Let's cut to the chase here,shall we? Are you going to be waiting for her to pull the rug out from you again after this? If you can't get past that in trusting her,just drop it now. I think kimmypuss best answered that in her post listed directly under yours: quote: hate to break it anyone , in here, but sounds like Love to me. That's where your big-time protocols fail. And that's ok, fellow humans. *huggs for them both. This is about so much more than having her as a slave, or having a sex partner. kimmy is correct in that this may well be love, and it is. I have never had a slave, nor would I ever accept the submission of someone merely based on physical desire. No, I am not saying that is wrong.... just not for Me. I believe I have exhibited a great deal of trust allowing her to come back, and in the light of the feelings involved, and that I deeply care for her and believe in her, I cannot simply "drop her". If I did, I would be the one who has failed most heinously. Thank you, kimmypuss.

EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 7:37:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RainGod I believe I have exhibited a great deal of trust allowing her to come back, and in the light of the feelings involved, and that I deeply care for her and believe in her, I cannot simply "drop her". If I did, I would be the one who has failed most heinously. Relationships need a lot more than "feelings" in order to survive and thrive. There's a huge difference between dropping someone like a hot potato and saying "You broke a serious commitment with me, I don't want to go through that with you again." Ultimately it's obviously your choice, you have to decide what risks you can take and what work is necessary in this situation. But no one fails because they make the choice that ultimately is what is right for them, even if it happens to hurt someone else in the short term.

RainGod -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 8:54:18 AM)
I personally applaud yinofsedona with her very professional imput into this thread, and also thank her for this portion in particular: quote: i am proud to say that i am a submissive and a slave. i am also intelligent and posses a healthy self esteem and sense of self worth. To me, life is about balance. Perhaps this is why i chose “yin” as a screen name. Out in the world i have been, and still am, in a position of upper management. When i come home, when i leave the office, when i leave the world outside, i want, i need to let it all go. i need to hand over the power, the control of my life to another. i Want to be protected, to be guided, to be loved, to be disciplined and yes…to be punished when deemed necessary. Like many, i find great catharsis in punishment. And YES, there is a little girl inside of me, too. There will always be. One who accepts that she wants and needs a parent, a loving Daddy. Why not??? What does a Daddy represent but love, safety, guidance, understanding, acceptance and direction? That’s a bad thing??? Hello!!!! I totally agree. That was My point also. a submissive or slave doesn't necessarily have to be a person without any control whatsoever in her roles outside the home. It occurs to Me a LOT of submissives are people who have extremely hight postions in professional jobs where they make key decisions every day. It therefore stands to reason she may desire someone else to take control at home and allow her the relaxation of simply doing as she is bid to do. Nothing sexist there. Free will, free choice between two consenting adults. quote: And i truly wonder….the word “sexist”. Can it really be applied to our world? C’mon!! Think about it!! Safe, sane, and consensual Domination and submission. That’s what we’re about. Again…..Hello!!!! If someone has issue with sexism..perhaps they need to re evaluate their attitudes toward this life/lifestyle. Hear! hear! Thank you, yinofsedona!

JustaTop -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 9:41:34 AM)
It would seem you only wish to hear what reenforces a decision you have already made. Best of luck to you,but was this all just devised as a pat on the back to you? Odd,very odd.[;)]

RainGod -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 10:01:15 AM)
JustaTop said quote: It would seem you only wish to hear what reenforces a decision you have already made. Really? Did you misread this thread? Did you even read the original post? I don't see how you could come to that conclusion. quote: was this all just devised as a pat on the back to you? Lmao! I gotta tell ya... approval from My peers is not something I go to great extremes to get. I readily accept their opinions and advice,which is the reason this thread began, but no, I do not require a pat on the proverbial back from you nor from anyone else to make Me feel good. lol... I am certainly not One in need of having My ego jerked off on any regular basis. quote: Odd,very odd. No more odd than one posting when he has not contained a grasp of the thread, I would think. HTH

JustaTop -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 10:17:20 AM)
Not really,I am just looking at how you responded to the pros and cons throughout. Cons got one liner dismissals,or were pointed to pro replies. You still seem to be seeking validation,but wanted to dismiss anyone who pointed it out. And if you weren't looking for some sort of validation-why post this topic to begin with? It makes no sense. But hey,whatever floats your boat guy .....[:D]

RainGod -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 11:19:26 AM)
quote: Cons got one liner dismissals,or were pointed to pro replies. you really are quite comical. The only "dismissals" that were allegedly handed out were to those who were grossly misinformed to the topic, and in one case to the general dynamics of the lifestyle. All opinons were granted an open ear. If you can post proof where anyone was "dismissed", do so. quote: And if you weren't looking for some sort of validation-why post this topic to begin with? It makes no sense Ummm, let's see.... again I say read the original post. I posted in order to get an idea of what the correct action would be... altogether different from your supposition of My seeking a "pat on the back". you seem to be oblivious to the entire contents of this thread, and even worse you seem to be argumentative in nearly every post I see you in. It is not My agenda, nor My desire to waste valuable bandwidth nor the time of those who read here bantering with you. It is pointless for Me to wage a battle of wits with such an obviously unarmed person. Have a great day! [:)]

FLButtSlut -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 1:59:06 PM)
Obviously there are strong feelings between the two which is a wonderful thing. However, I noticed something rather odd about this whole thing. RainGod, you became a member here in July of this year. needs2serve said that she created THAT screen name and profile a couple of days after the break up to keep an eye on you, but THAT screen name was created in April 2004, more than a year prior to yours. Certainly you could have been here under a different screen name that she was then watching. But then that begs the question of "she is gone for a few weeks"....which few? The few last year when the screen name was created? The few weeks before your post asking how to punish her for leaving you? You and she, like everyone else that asks for advice are going to do whatever it is that you choose to do anyway, but it just appears that when the questions and comments are combined with those dates, which are system generated, it certainly appears as if something is missing in the way of honesty somewhere.

RainGod -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 2:22:02 PM)
quote: But then that begs the question of "she is gone for a few weeks"....which few? The few last year when the screen name was created? The few weeks before your post asking how to punish her for leaving you? Sigh. Isn't this a tiny bit petty? As far as I know, the nic was created just like she said it was, to keep tabs on Me. Thats would mean the few weeks prior to this post. quote: You and she, like everyone else that asks for advice are going to do whatever it is that you choose to do anyway, but it just appears that when the questions and comments are combined with those dates, which are system generated, it certainly appears as if something is missing in the way of honesty somewhere. I shall have her address this mess in the morning, but I assure you neither she not I are in a conspiracy to deceive you or anyone else.

kimmypuss -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 3:02:45 PM)
you are most welcome.

denimknight -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 3:19:34 PM)
Thankyou for your thoughts on this matter. However, perhaps I should make something clear once more. I do not believe that Raingod is an abusive person in or out of his relationships, at least not in the domestic violence sense of the word. I do however think that he has a sexist world view. That is to say I think that he applies inconsistent judgments of a person's abilities, place in the world, ect based upon their physical sex where physical sex has no real bearing upon the matter. Now then having established that (and hopefully cleared up anywhere I might have failed to express myself to your understanding, for that I apologize) I move onto the portion of your post dealing with sexism as the social/cultural manifestation. quote: And i truly wonder….the word “sexist”. Can it really be applied to our world? C’mon!! Think about it!! Safe, sane, and consensual Domination and submission. That’s what we’re about. Of course sexism can be applied to our world. It just may not have the same weight or negative connotation as it does in vanilla society. Sexism while always damaging to some degree does not necessarily flare into outright violence, but instead an often subconscious effort to restrain someone from reaching their full potential. The fact that one is willing to accept this and is resigned to it or even grateful for it does not mean that it isn't taking place. quote: Again…..Hello!!!! If someone has issue with sexism..perhaps they need to re evaluate their attitudes toward this life/lifestyle First and foremost I must disagree with what I am reading as your assumption that sexism is inherently a part of this Lifestyle. Sexism can be applied to any lifestyle in a wide array of different ways. I for my part have an issue with anything that causes baseless value judgments to be made about someone. So, while sexism can be applied to a M/s relationship and all too often is I do not think that it must be nor that it should be. However, that in the end is not my call to make. I only noticed the occurrence and have pointed it out. As for your point about re evaluating attitudes toward this lifestyle I could not agree with you more. I think everyone should always be reconsidering their world view, ideas, beliefs, and principals in this and every other aspect of their lives. Doing so is the only way to remain a dynamic, forward moving, person. In the course of my just slightly year long walk along this path I have been fortunate enough to offer service to a wide array of wonderful Masters and Mistresses. Each of them had their own unique style, and viewpoint with regards to this thing of ours. Having been exposed to so many different outlooks I have the benefit of being able to consider the generally applied or traditional views of those who engage in an M/s relationship against all of the other concepts I have been presented with. Having done so I believe that the majority of heterosexual male dominants function based upon sexist points of view. This is to the determent of those who serve them in my opinion, nothing more. I fear that many in this lifestyle believe that the way they have been taught is the only way or even the best way. Such a mindset crushes any hope of innovation. I believe that perhaps by tweaking some of the concepts generally considered to be a part of the M/s relationship that we can make it better. I think that perhaps recognizing sexism, as well as other negative social constructs that harm those who embrace them just as much as those to which they are applied, may be the next step in the never ending process of evolution that is as critical to this lifestyle as it is to anything else of worth. But hey I'm just throwin that out there. Respectfully Submitted denimknight

FLButtSlut -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/6/2005 3:45:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RainGod quote: But then that begs the question of "she is gone for a few weeks"....which few? The few last year when the screen name was created? The few weeks before your post asking how to punish her for leaving you? Sigh. Isn't this a tiny bit petty? As far as I know, the nic was created just like she said it was, to keep tabs on Me. Thats would mean the few weeks prior to this post. quote: You and she, like everyone else that asks for advice are going to do whatever it is that you choose to do anyway, but it just appears that when the questions and comments are combined with those dates, which are system generated, it certainly appears as if something is missing in the way of honesty somewhere. I shall have her address this mess in the morning, but I assure you neither she not I are in a conspiracy to deceive you or anyone else. You are apparently missing the point where it is appearing that YOU are being deceived. Never thought you were on here trying to deceive anyone else, just to be clear there. And by the way...I don't find it petty at all. I would want to know if someone was deceiving me. I'm sorry you didn't notice that particular item. I wasn't really trying to bring out the "claws" as you mentioned in your email to me. The "joined" date cannot be edited by the user. That "nick" has been around a while. If you are a smart man, you will stop questioning ME and start asking her about the "new" nick she created before you met so that she could spy on you.

BriansGirl -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/7/2005 2:05:12 AM)
quote: You are apparently missing the point where it is appearing that YOU are being deceived. Never thought you were on here trying to deceive anyone else, just to be clear there. And by the way...I don't find it petty at all. I would want to know if someone was deceiving me. I'm sorry you didn't notice that particular item. I wasn't really trying to bring out the "claws" as you mentioned in your email to me. The "joined" date cannot be edited by the user. That "nick" has been around a while. If you are a smart man, you will stop questioning ME and start asking her about the "new" nick she created before you met so that she could spy on you. Hey, It's me! Formerly Needs2Serve and now BriansGirl. I deleted Needs2Serve and created BriansGirl once Brian and I were comfortable with each other this past weekend. I cannot explain the 2004 joined date. I think I signed onto Collarme.com for the first time in early July of this year. RainGod and I met in early August. I have always maintained, that I did not RUN from RainGod. That is his perception and I can see how he might have viewed it that way. I always felt that he misunderstood me and basically gave me an ultimatum I was not prepared to submit to. As a result, I did not feel that I had permission to return to him. I agonized over that and it was my intention to work on my issues and then come back to him, "begging" (relax DenimKnight) to give me another chance. After about four days of miserable absence from him, I created Needs2Serve. I tried for Need2Serve, but it was already taken. I made a simple profile that I thought surely he would not find very attractive and contacted him in a very vague way, just so that I could communicate and know whether he was still in the area, or if he had moved on yet. Had he moved on with someone else, I never would have contacted him again. I lasted two weeks that way and the guilt of my deception became too much, and I missed him like hell. So, I called him and confessed my crime, gave him my password to my new nickname so that he could see that in the two weeks I had been on that name, I never responded to any of the messages I had received from anyone else. I gave him the password to the journal I had kept so that he could see what my thought process had been during those two weeks, because as bad as what I had done was, my motivation was never malevolent. And, by the way.....DID YOU KNOW, that on collarme.com, I can hit a couple of keys and change my nick name to RainGod, FlButtSlut, or Kimmypuss.....and go to the chat rooms and chat as though I was YOU, or that person? It is a MAJOR flaw in this computer (that could NEVER have incorrect information on it). All I can say is that I created the nick name approximately four weeks ago now, and kept it for three weeks. I had never heard of collarme.com until July of this year when it was recommended to me by a person on AOL. RainGod and I DO have issues to solve. Honesty is not one of them. TRUST would rank up there (on both our parts), but not due to any dishonesty on either of our parts, but more about trusting that we will be there for each other when things do not always go smoothly. But we both feel very affectionate toward each other and desire to grow in this relationship. I know a few people on here think that I should be tossed to the curb. I am an imperfect human being. I will never be perfect. All I can do is strive each and every day to be better than I was yesterday. It was never my intention to hurt Brian, to deceive him or to manipulate him. In the end, I did all three. I work hard every day to make up for that.

Soulhuntre -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/7/2005 9:40:02 AM)
Even though the thread has moved on a lot, I figued I would comment on the OP. quote: ORIGINAL: RainGod How then should the Master accept her return? Surely she should be punished in some way for the sadness caused? How then should she be punished? I can only really relate this to my house in one of two circumstances: 1) Someone asked for and was granted a release from service. In Estate terminology such a release would be considered "honorable" and would usually not carry with it any future prejudice against re-acceptance. If they desired to re-enter service in my house then they would need to justify their position and all the usual process would apply but the fact that we already know each other and she has already aquired some skills I value would count in her favor. If circumstances changes, my needs changed or in the interim a more qualified person was available for their service position they may simply not be allowed to come back. 2) Someone left service without being released. Honestly? Under 99% of the circumstances I simply would not consider accepting a future service petition from them. Let's say, however, that I did because their potential value was high and I believed that the circumstance was unique or the flaw could be corrected. I have seen this work only twice. If I was going to allow this their service would be probabtionary. At a minimum they would be allowed none of the priviledges other servants might enjoy at any time and there would certainly be no intimacy or reward for a significant period of time. In one case it was about 6 months and another almost 4. Any instance of defiance or attitude during that time would terminate the "second chance". Personally, since I am in a position with my peers to do so, it is probably ate least several weeks of that time woudl nto even be in my house but serving others... I trust their judgement and woudl want an outside opinion of her worth all over again. What position the eventually were allowd, if any would be entirely re-evaluated... all bets are off. In my house of course service and love or caring are seperate concepts. If one of my girls were to fail in this manner I would accept their apology as a Daddy and as a friend without punishing them at all... those things are about feelings and accpetance and of course if I loved them my love would remain. Service however? A place in my service isn't about those things... it is earned, it is not guarentied and it absolutely is conditional.

FLButtSlut -> RE: The Prodical Slave (10/7/2005 10:43:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BriansGirl And, by the way.....DID YOU KNOW, that on collarme.com, I can hit a couple of keys and change my nick name to RainGod, FlButtSlut, or Kimmypuss.....and go to the chat rooms and chat as though I was YOU, or that person? It is a MAJOR flaw in this computer (that could NEVER have incorrect information on it). quote: Need2Serve Oh really? And how might you do that? Nicks need to be unique, so while you might be able to create a similar name that might be mistaken, unless you actually hacked into the system and located the password, I don't see how it could be done. Although I'm certainly interested to hear. As for the "join" date, again, a system generated field that could only be adjusted by hacking into the code. Perhaps you know how to do that. I certainly don't and don't really care to do it, but I would love to hear how it is done, or better yet, how many times you have actually done it since you certainly imply that you have.

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