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RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/20/2008 6:57:29 PM   
StormsSlave


Posts: 629
Joined: 2/6/2008
Status: offline 		We are two people who have finally found one another.  Both of us have struggled repeatedly through the pitfalls of being with the wrong people.  Both of us are thrilled to finally be with a person who is our best friend, and who lets us be who we are. 

I love My Lord.  He's not just my master, or my dom, he's the love of my life.  Whenever hardship happens, we can only do one thing: cling to one another.  Whenever good times happen, we can only do one thing: cling to one another.  "WE" are stronger than "me" in this relationship.  We both agree that this is true, and therefore discuss almost everything.  Certainly, he occasionally makes decisions that are unilateral and that I must accept, but this has happened rarely and generally are things that only concern him or have to do with my health/well-being.

Anytime I have considered the issue of my own looks, My Lord has allowed me to do as I please.  I recently went back to my original color from having pink streaks in my hair.  (Impulse.)  He didn't mind the streaks, didn't mind when they were gone.   However, I am growing my hair out at his request, and we are discussing a tattoo as a "brand."  I don't think it would settle well if he "dictated" how I had to look or what I had to do with my body, but if he bottom-lined it as a command, I would probably obey.  If I chose to cut my hair, however, I would feel his disapproval, even though he would probably not say a word.  I'm not sure if it's the same, but it's motivation enough for me to keep it long, and it's just gotten long enough to start being fun, anyway, so it's hardly a burden. 

If he does approach me, my complete honesty is required.  This was made clear to me the day he told me he was going to have me.  I am not required to share all of my thoughts, of course.  My willingness to accept his honesty for what it is is also required.  In truth, the few other "requirements" he has laid out for me are directly related to the honesty issue, anyway, so I don't find his hand hard to live under. 

I do agree that whatever color Miss Charlotte's hair, she's going to be stunning. 

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/20/2008 7:07:41 PM   
StormsSlave


Posts: 629
Joined: 2/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

in a situation like you desribe i would question my intention. why do i want the hair color to change? and why do they resist?

if i thought it would be a growth experiance to be "too much of a statement" then i would likely have her do it anyway, but i would be less interested in my will being done, and much more interested what her experiance stepping out of her comfort zone was like, and what skills and talents did she use to rise to the occasion.

but then again she has said to me "you are the only person i know that gets turned on from personal growth" i know this cant be true, but i dont meet many who share that particular fettish.


Actually, My Lord does seem to enjoy this particular aspect of Dom-dom.  He often encourages certain things in me in order to improve a behavior that troubles him.  Lately, that seems to be a little self-care, as I tend to run through the world looking after everything but myself.  He seems to get a kick out of it when I tell him I'm wasting my time (which is what it feels like) and questions my need to justify it.  Don't want to hi-jack.  Just thought I'd share.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/20/2008 8:23:26 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

For the dominant types, how often are you willing to overrule your submissives opinions on things?  How lightly do you make such a demand (one that's clearly, and simply, aesthetic), without consulting her?


Stephan




 
I guess this is the heart of my objection to such a thing. Appearance, to many women, is not just aesthetic. It is directly tied in with self worth and self esteem.
 
And those are not things to be lightly and uncaringly fucked with.

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/21/2008 2:16:23 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		I have no problem with being influenced; in fact, I accept this is an inescapable fact of life and I actively encourage it.

If you, I, we can't accept that another human being has something to lend, it's a poor show. It doesn't matter that you're in a position of power; in fact, it makes it even more imperative, "give me your knowledge because I need it".

Presumably, we're talking of women who have a decent enough education behind them; I'd learn from her, no problem: on my terms, though.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/21/2008 2:31:27 PM   
jenf


Posts: 45
Joined: 12/26/2007
Status: offline 		Sometimes, its just wise to negotiate a bit...case in point...my Master told me to remove a butt plug  in the car...i questioned the wisdom of this, as it "might come out a little dirty"...He thought it over and decided it could wait. Wise decision.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/21/2008 6:16:17 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I have no problem with being influenced; in fact, I accept this is an inescapable fact of life and I actively encourage it.

If you, I, we can't accept that another human being has something to lend, it's a poor show. It doesn't matter that you're in a position of power; in fact, it makes it even more imperative, "give me your knowledge because I need it".

Presumably, we're talking of women who have a decent enough education behind them; I'd learn from her, no problem: on my terms, though.



This at the crux of the matter...Judging from many of these threads I wouldn't trust many of the women out here to tie my shoes...Somehow their lack of education or common sense would lead to my ultimate demise. Education can be gleaned through life experience...Might even be the best classroom. Just seems that so many have lacked the necessary skills to learn the lessons.

But in reality it really all depends on what is proposed....Open up you mouth I feel like I have a rather large wet dump coming on...Or I think you might look nice with one tit...Would I be surprised if my sub balked at the proposal? I would be astonished if she didn't...There is submission and then there is crazy...I seek submission with dignity and intelligence, grace and the ability of the sub to use sound judgment not only in our relationship but in her walk through this world as well.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/21/2008 6:25:54 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
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From: Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I have no problem with being influenced; in fact, I accept this is an inescapable fact of life and I actively encourage it.

If you, I, we can't accept that another human being has something to lend, it's a poor show. It doesn't matter that you're in a position of power; in fact, it makes it even more imperative, "give me your knowledge because I need it".

Presumably, we're talking of women who have a decent enough education behind them; I'd learn from her, no problem: on my terms, though.


And you were becoming such a good right cock.  What the hell happened?

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/21/2008 9:20:04 PM   
greenearth21


Posts: 228
Joined: 7/9/2006
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quote:

For the submissive types, how well do you embrace such expectations?  How much of a voice do you feel is necessary, to feel you have had your say, without feeling like you're dictating rules?


 
In a relationship that i'd be involved in, the dynamic will have been discussed, understood and agreed upon before being involved.  With that said I believe that my imput is important specifically to things tha tpertain to me and my suggestion is always free if needed or requested, but bottom line is that the last decision lies with my partner.  For them to be my partner/dom etc, I will have known , well before entering the relationshp that he values my opinions and feelings and would always be aware of how i feel or think about certain things.
I never feel like i'm dictating the rules because when making an opinion/statement without being asked, I always have a disclaimer that it is just my thought...if they care to consider it great, if not...all the same.  I also give the disclaimer because I can be passionate about something or not know the right way to say it ...therefore the disclaimer serves as a "i'm sorry if this comes out rude but its not my intention in the least"

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/22/2008 5:08:42 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I have no problem with being influenced; in fact, I accept this is an inescapable fact of life and I actively encourage it.

If you, I, we can't accept that another human being has something to lend, it's a poor show. It doesn't matter that you're in a position of power; in fact, it makes it even more imperative, "give me your knowledge because I need it".

Presumably, we're talking of women who have a decent enough education behind them; I'd learn from her, no problem: on my terms, though.


And you were becoming such a good right cock.  What the hell happened?


Jesus turned up last night and pointed the way to the golden path...........

What? You don't have something worth listening to?

Marie, we're influenced in ways we don't even understand.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/22/2008 5:49:45 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I have no problem with being influenced; in fact, I accept this is an inescapable fact of life and I actively encourage it.

If you, I, we can't accept that another human being has something to lend, it's a poor show. It doesn't matter that you're in a position of power; in fact, it makes it even more imperative, "give me your knowledge because I need it".

Presumably, we're talking of women who have a decent enough education behind them; I'd learn from her, no problem: on my terms, though.



This at the crux of the matter...Judging from many of these threads I wouldn't trust many of the women out here to tie my shoes...Somehow their lack of education or common sense would lead to my ultimate demise. Education can be gleaned through life experience...Might even be the best classroom. Just seems that so many have lacked the necessary skills to learn the lessons.

But in reality it really all depends on what is proposed....Open up you mouth I feel like I have a rather large wet dump coming on...Or I think you might look nice with one tit...Would I be surprised if my sub balked at the proposal? I would be astonished if she didn't...There is submission and then there is crazy...I seek submission with dignity and intelligence, grace and the ability of the sub to use sound judgment not only in our relationship but in her walk through this world as well.


I tend to assume men want a woman in their lives: not a child.

Perhaps a distinction between decision making, influence and consulation is necessary.

In order to make the right decision, I need all of the available information at hand; assuming common sense exists, I'd say this is as close to common sense as it gets. Without consultation, I couldn't possibly have all of the available information, and at times her background/knowledge/information will influence a decision.

I suppose there's also a distinction wrapped up in the task at hand; for example, she can make all the decisions she wants in the kitchen, within the broad scope of knowing what I like (someone knocking up salad won't get very far with me, with the exception of a spell in solitary confinement at his majesty's pleasure). Sex is an altogether different matter; there's roughly zero scope for consultation.

I reckon it depends on what a person is looking for. I want to improve my understanding of areas of interest where my knowledge is lacking, so someone I can rely on with knowledge and research skills will be more than useful. In fact, it's far more important for me than the woman's sexual experience, or lack of, because I'm pretty much going to help myself in that department, regardless.

In terms of discussing decisions, why not? What? Our egos are too big to handle being told by a woman that she thinks you've made a bollocks of it? 'No problem with that, here. I tend to see my mind as an ever-changing bundle of perceptions and ideas limited by my knowledge of myself and the world, which means I'll make the wrong decisions from time to time. 'Nothing wrong with that - win some, lose some......and learn from the mistakes

Let's be clear though, DG, if the bitch starts getting uppity on the back of a spot of empowerment, she'll find herself in the washing machine for a quick spin-dry.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/22/2008 6:32:14 AM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

For the dominant types, how often are you willing to overrule your submissives opinions on things?  How lightly do you make such a demand (one that's clearly, and simply, aesthetic), without consulting her?


 
I am always willing to overrule.... but just because I am willing doesn't mean that I will... Most times my girls are very much in line with what I want. 

As far as making choices without consulting them....  the simple stuff... too so much... the more complex issues... I generally looking for their prespectives.  Then again.. I have mades some complex stuff without their input and simple stuff with their input. 
]
i wonder if girls become more amenable to their Master's wants and get in line with them over time.  A natural progression of spending time with Them and knowing Them intimately. 

As far as the OP i think it's completely understandable that You consider a subs opinion and thoughts. As NorthernGent said
quote:

 I tend to assume men want a woman in their lives: not a child. 

  a brainless vacant-faced slave may be hard to accept for a thinking Man.  And to conquer the mind of one who is in all ways that matter, mindless, may be like conquering an empty pit...where in the hell do you plant the flag???? 

i would like to think it's a given that D/s doesn't mean i have no say in things affecting my personal welfare...some stuff is just plain stubborness, and that should be corrected...but, as a very sober-minded gentleman stated
quote:

  But in reality it really all depends on what is proposed....Open up you mouth I feel like I have a rather large wet dump coming on...Or I think you might look nice with one tit...Would I be surprised if my sub balked at the proposal? I would be astonished if she didn't...There is submission and then there is crazy ...

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/22/2008 9:12:25 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent



Jesus turned up last night and pointed the way to the golden path...........



Was it warm and wet, sexy man?

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/22/2008 9:13:57 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


...I seek submission with dignity and intelligence, grace and the ability of the sub to use sound judgment not only in our relationship but in her walk through this world as well.




_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/23/2008 6:02:35 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Was it warm and wet?



Habitable and hospitable.....

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/23/2008 4:25:18 PM   
DarkVictory


Posts: 247
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline 		I don't believe that this is a conundrum.  I believe that this is a question of responsibility.  You own a woman who has put her life in your hands, both literally, and figuratively.  As a result, you now hold the responsibility for the downstream results that will arise from your choices as her owner.  These can be as simple as having to explain a tattoo, or a corpse.  She is a slave, and in the end if you press it, she will obey.  It's what slaves tend to do.

The real question is simply this, and nothing more.  Are you willing to be responsible for the follow-on that will result?  How much do you want this?  Are you willing to displease her?  To hurt her emotionally, to cause her to doubt your judgement?  Are you prepared to have her family ask questions, to have her lose a job, her career, her life?  This is the core of what I refer to as 'House Limits' .... she may not have limits, but the house does.

I hope this answer is of some value.

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/23/2008 4:54:33 PM   
softness


Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The only time I really give her opinion real weight over mine is when it is something that will make her unattractive either in her head or in the eyes of others.  There I tread carefully, scratch that, I tread respectfully.  I don't go there lightly and only if I have some goal.



This is somethingthat I will struggle with in service. I know that the orders I will given will be followed. I also know that if those orders include changing something about my appearance that makes me think I am unattractive then as my head works right now NOTHING he nor anyone else can say will change that. If I think, right now, this second that I am ugly in my own head, then I AM ugly in my own head.

I have to be very careful, because I have the power to utterly fuck myself over in the head with things like this far more powerfully than any sadist (sorry chaps! but I can be a much crueler cunt than you, I have been fucking myself in the head for 24 years ... thats waaay more than you).

HOWEVER if I am to be a slave, I MUST give value to no other opinion than His. If I can manage to do that, with a man who is all that he says that he is, then I wont *need* to be involved in the decision making process.

< Message edited by softness -- 3/23/2008 5:00:00 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/23/2008 5:13:29 PM   
MasochistToy


Posts: 21
Joined: 1/18/2008
Status: offline 		Since I have been through this from the submissive side I will chime in. I have very long naturally dark brown hair. Daddy wanted me to die it jet black. I am also very fair skinned. He also had me cut my bangs straight across, and I had always worn them up off my forehead. The result, I looked 10 years younger with the straight bangs, but goth for about a week until the color softened slightly. I love the goth look, but I am 35 and work in an office environment so it was a little startling for my coworkers. I laughed it off and told them I sometimes get a wild hair to change my look.
I was very nervous about the change emotionally. My hair is one of my greatest vanities. Daddy understood this, but wanted what he wanted. As his slut I changed for him. Aesthetically I was not totally pleased with the results, but myself-esteem was not damaged by it. As I said the color softened, and was actually quite lovely in a week, and Daddy was thrilled with the look both immediately and when it got slightly lighter. More importantly, I surrendered one of my biggest control issues to him and he felt trusted and in control, and my submission to him deepend. It worked the power exchange beautifully for us. He could have decided to tell me to go bald, but the point was not to exert his dominance over me in an unhealthy way just to see if I would behave. The point was he had a vision of what he would like to see on me (and he thinks I am the most beautiful person on the planet so it wasn't because he wanted to improve me or change me) and I trusted him not to change my appearance in a way that damaged me.

_____________________________

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Daddys Masochist

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/23/2008 6:10:10 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkVictory

I don't believe that this is a conundrum.  I believe that this is a question of responsibility.  You own a woman who has put her life in your hands, both literally, and figuratively.  As a result, you now hold the responsibility for the downstream results that will arise from your choices as her owner.  These can be as simple as having to explain a tattoo, or a corpse.  She is a slave, and in the end if you press it, she will obey.  It's what slaves tend to do.

The real question is simply this, and nothing more.  Are you willing to be responsible for the follow-on that will result?  How much do you want this?  Are you willing to displease her?  To hurt her emotionally, to cause her to doubt your judgement?  Are you prepared to have her family ask questions, to have her lose a job, her career, her life?  This is the core of what I refer to as 'House Limits' .... she may not have limits, but the house does.

I hope this answer is of some value.



What an excellent point this is.  And something that most will never recognize.

A lot of doms/masters/owners (I'm not saying the OP or anyone in particular) think they want control of someone else's life and choices.  They fantasize about it, and talk the talk about it, but once they have it layed out before them for the taking, they don't know what the fuck to do with it, and they're scared of taking that responsibility.  Some of them find subtle ways to sniff out their sub's approval, so they can be close to sure that they're not doing something detrimental, or something without her 'consent'.   Ok, so they don't want to hurt the girl, that's honorable, but god damn it, it's risky shit that we do, isn't it?  You take the chance that you might fuck someone up, and they take the risk knowing that might happen, but they put their faith in you anyway.  It can be scary, and risky for both parties, but it's supposed to be, that's what makes it so intimate.  And the meaning of it all somehow gets diluted when you start seeking out the approval of your sub so that you can feel safer in your decisions.

< Message edited by marieToo -- 3/23/2008 6:11:26 PM >

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/23/2008 6:36:38 PM   
MontrealPhoenix


Posts: 1526
Joined: 2/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

As often as it makes really good sense to over ride. LOL
Which really isn't all that often.



I concur - especially when it comes to a decision on physical appearance. If you make someone do something they're unsure of and that will affect the way they look, it might destroy their self-esteem... and a submissive with a bad self-image isn't an enjoyable thing, from what I've heard.

Similarly, if a Dominant radically changes the way they look and it makes them look like shit, it might throw the whole fragile equilibrium off balance... we underestimate the power of vanity.

Why do you want her to go blonde anyway? Just curious.



See, I completely agree with this statement.  "Not all that often."  I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've done it, and always on incredibly trivial matters.  Hence the question "when do you?"

As for the why, she has been doing some modeling, and is likely to do a great deal more of it.  It's not simply something I'd enjoy aesthetically (I prefer natural redheads, or very dark hair) but for once, I think charlotte might look good blond, and I'm considering her desirability/employability.

Thanks for the thoughts so far, we really appreciate them.

Stephan

As someone who has the same coloring as Charlotte and tried platinum hair, TRUST me on this one, it would be a huge mistake. If you want dramatic, go for red tones not blond.
 
Personally, i love having to do what i'm told, it gives me a huge rush to know that i've got no choice but to do as he says - PROVIDED that it would do me no harm.
 
Phoenix

_____________________________

"Only in a collar can a woman be truly free"
~Tribesmen of Gor ..pg 75

"He who ties a woman owns her"
~Guardsman Of Gor pg 267



(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Dominants Discussing Decisions - 3/23/2008 6:39:58 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
This is somethingthat I will struggle with in service. I know that the orders I will given will be followed. I also know that if those orders include changing something about my appearance that makes me think I am unattractive then as my head works right now NOTHING he nor anyone else can say will change that. If I think, right now, this second that I am ugly in my own head, then I AM ugly in my own head.



I used to feel just this way, only I always felt unattractive.  Then I met him, and it wasn't the words he said that made me feel attractive and desireable, it was how he progressed me along; I'm not sure if I can even explain it.  It has to do with the way he responds to my attitude and to my submission.  Over time, I began to feel like the hottest, sexiest thing alive to him, and not because he told me so, but because of how he leads me, what he thinks up to do with me, and how he responds to it.  Now there it seems there is nothing he can do with me that could make me think less of myself in that regard.  Yes he humbles me often, but that's different than making me feel ugly or unattractive.  He has such a grip on my mind and is so bold in using it that there really isn't an opportunity to think less of myself than he wishes me to (or if I do, he catches it instantly and turns it around), because what's attractive to him goes far beyond the physical.

Just letting you know that it is definitely possible to break the habit of mentally fucking yourself over.  Spoken from a former Queen of that little club. :)

_____________________________

Good is the enemy of great.

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 60
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