RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (Full Version)

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subtee -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 1:51:49 PM)

Hi Steel;

I was going to write that it seems to me most are not following your request, vis a vis:

quote:

1)      Yes I am involved in a situation that kind of relates but I am NOT looking for advice or Justification just other peoples Opinions.
2)      I’m not looking for flaming opinions but personal opinions that can or can’t relate to the situation and why.
3)      What I am posting isn’t a direct reflection on what is happening in my life at the current moment but a compilation of lots of events that occurred over the past 11 years I have been involved in this lifestyle. (Basically this isn’t really about “ME” right now it’s about Relationships within this lifestyle in general.)


Uh, and I guess I just did.

I have two things to add, that probably matter not at all, since I'm in a very different situation than you are. First, as to the post, "what are you getting and what that's worth": I will tell you that I'm not in a relationship, but I still decide I'm going to quit trying about every 2-3 weeks. If it weren't for you hilarious, smart, annoying and very cool people, I'd probably be long gone.

Secondly, I believe that we who would like to soar over the peaks have no right to bypass the valleys, no matter how low they may bring us.  

Tee



LostLittleSoul2 -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 1:58:04 PM)

"I can clean a DISASTER Area of a home in a day, Because I start and don't stop till it's done."

Sounds lovely...when you are in the area, you are very welcome here [&:]



LaTigresse -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 2:05:23 PM)

There was a time in my life I was doing a very good job of wallowing in self pity, feeling like I was giving alot more than I was getting. I was constantly physically exhausted, beat, and emotionally drained.

Then I realized that I was doing it, I was not living true to myself. It was a painful process to get where I am today. Today, each day, each facet of my life feels like a treasure, a blessing. I understand what it means to live "with joy".

The wonderful part is that now I never think "am I giving more than I am getting" because I don't even think about how much I give versus what I am getting.

If something in my life isn't working, I fix it, change it or remove it. I refuse to do nothing then bitch, whine and feel sorry for myself. That is not productive AND, if I am honest with myself, I created the mess to begin with.



derfrewop -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 2:26:22 PM)

This problem comes up in most vanilla relationships. And everyone here except for Micheal is giving out the vanilla answer. BDSM has some major advantages for relationships. But only if you use it to advantage.

Lets look at what is going on in her head when she is doing the dishes. "mumble goddamned dishes mumble, he never has to do them, mumble, treats me like a house slave mumble mumble grrrr, guess submission means I don't get my needs fulfilled grrrrrrrrr"

In your head "grrr why wont she do what I want, grr i try and nothing motivates her mumble mumble, constant battle not worth it grrrrrrrrr"

The end result- she gets attention by you doing the dishes and then you have make up sex. But its probably not very good because she just bluntly proved that you were not dominate.

Everybody mostly behaves according to the rewards they expect. For a masochist that means the pain, emotion, drama etc. Every masochist I know is more than happy to continuously misbehave if it will get them what they want. But that is an impossible dynamic for anybody except the masochist to deal with. Its hard to think a relationship is worth the effort if the effort is always dealing with misbehavior that is intentional.

In a vanilla relationship there is no way out of this particular death spiral. Think how many subs here talk about previous abusive relationships and realize that a lot of the time they were getting exactly what they wanted while driving their partners insane. It all finally blows up when the partner really does lose it.

The great big huge advantage that BDSM type relationships have over vanilla is that there is somebody who is specifically responsible for controlling punishment and reward. For a masochist, punishment is the reward. The way to punish a masochist is to ignore them.

So change the dynamic. You should know something she really likes. ( My girl loves getting flogged to orgasm) and something she really dislikes but you like (clothespins).

"Here's the deal, the dishes have to be done by one of us. Whoever does them gets the reward. If you do them, you get a nice flogging, if I do them, I get to play with the clothespins. Its entirely your choice, I'll be happy either way."

Now for both of you, the inner dialog is more along the lines of "Damn doing the dishes sucks but ohhhh its going to be a lot of fun tonight"

Again, the advantage of a D/s relationship is that there is somebody explicitly responsible for setting up rewards and punishments so both sides get maximum happiness. The secret to success is to grasp that responsibility firmly and always be looking for ways to fine tune it for more happiness. It doesn't always work and your mileage may vary but it is an incredibly powerful tool if you use it correctly.






Prinsexx -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 2:33:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Dude,I learned this the hard way.
 
Fuck the roles. Fuck the stereotypes. Fuck the expectations.
 


fuck it all.........(sometimes i cope.....)



xxblushesxx -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 2:35:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah


the ammoount of time they spend dreading doing the task is how long the task itself would have taken them if they just did it.


I have a problem similar to this. I believe it's related to my ADD. It could also be caused by depression.



BitaTruble -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 2:35:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

I have always been of the belief that a Master doesn't has the slave he wants, he has the slave he deserves. If you want a different sort of slave, then be a different sort Master.

Celeste


Thanks for the compliment Celeste!


It is a compliment to you (and others who seek and accomplish growth). Absolutely - because 10 years ago you couldn't have gotten BSB much less kept her because you didn't deserve her. You've grown and are reaping the benefits of your growth. My well wishes to both of you for it.

Celeste



Prinsexx -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 2:45:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: derfrewop



For a masochist, punishment is the reward. The way to punish a masochist is to ignore them




exactly !
BUT it could also be very tiring for you as a Dominant (see i can see it from your side of the dynamic) if you feel you always OWE her something. That you always owe her a reward, that you owe her a good caning or even that you owe her something that she dowsn't want like the clothespins.
It's very tiring to be left feeling you owe a girl anything and especially so when this gets invisibly woven into the fabric of an LTR.
That feeling of the dynamic being a certain way, having to be a certain way, turns any relationship to shreds.
Forgive me is i am wrong, but i am certain that this is the root of breakdown, of promiscuity, of disloyalty. You know wanting to play with another sub because you feel the need to get back to the days when there were no expectations and it just WAS. There was no price to pay.

In the beginning most slaves would have done all the dishes, walked over hot coals to do them and sewn a dress and been up before dawn......
Just maybe let her know how tiring it is to feel responsible for her inabilities to manage.....as somewhere it sounds like she made you feel responsible for that.......

further...i remember being in a relationship with a Dom once and not being able to manage the dishes....he simply wrapped all the dishes in the fkn table cloth and smashed the lot...et voila! no more dishes....that seemed to have solved it if i remember.......



Prinsexx -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 2:47:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah


the ammoount of time they spend dreading doing the task is how long the task itself would have taken them if they just did it.



I have a problem similar to this. I believe it's related to my ADD. It could also be caused by depression.

or the fact that it's the soddin dishes.......xx



Prinsexx -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 2:56:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

There was a time in my life I was doing a very good job of wallowing in self pity, feeling like I was giving alot more than I was getting. I was constantly physically exhausted, beat, and emotionally drained.

Then I realized that I was doing it, I was not living true to myself. It was a painful process to get where I am today. Today, each day, each facet of my life feels like a treasure, a blessing. I understand what it means to live "with joy".

The wonderful part is that now I never think "am I giving more than I am getting" because I don't even think about how much I give versus what I am getting.

If something in my life isn't working, I fix it, change it or remove it. I refuse to do nothing then bitch, whine and feel sorry for myself. That is not productive AND, if I am honest with myself, I created the mess to begin with.


Damn and there was me thinking i could get away with it!
i always get the results of my communication i do know that...it's just such a hard pattern to break the one that goes oh i can't cope, oh i'm really having a breakdown, oh my god i can't do this anymore....wallow wallow.....i see myself from master's eyes and really i know i am truly pathetic at times and that's the point that pulls me up short and gets me back into serving....the thing is noone beats me up better than i do sometimes...poor me etc etc etc.....
it's a pattern that i struggle with and just loving myself and getting someone else to beat me is looking a healthier option.....but playing that subtle game of can't cope IN ORDER to get the punishment...well..what can i say other than it simply doesn't work.



Madame4a -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 2:58:20 PM)

I ask myself this question often -- in the end, I come to the conclusion that I want (perhaps need) too much.



SteelofUtah -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 2:59:58 PM)

that is a valid statment I have come to this answer a couple of times in the past as well The issue comes when I try to determine the next mode of action.

Steel



Madame4a -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 3:00:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse


The wonderful part is that now I never think "am I giving more than I am getting" because I don't even think about how much I give versus what I am getting.

If something in my life isn't working, I fix it, change it or remove it. I refuse to do nothing then bitch, whine and feel sorry for myself. That is not productive AND, if I am honest with myself, I created the mess to begin with.



The first part of this... does it come in a bottle?  I need a shot of it...

the second... I try to live my life that way too.. its really all about taking responsibility for your choices, feelings and actions...



Madame4a -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 3:05:14 PM)

When you find the answer to that.. tell me, and I'll pay you...

[sm=applause.gif]



domiguy -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 3:16:44 PM)

I believe what you ask from others can only be answered by you. As much as it pains me I must agree with Bita. You kind of get what you deserve.

How is anyone supposed to look into your situation and respond?... A woman that watches hours of tv? Does she work? What attracted you to her in the first place?



We all seek something different and Michael hit the nail on the head...."The sort of women I want/lust for/have is the strong independent type who is intelligent and insightful."

I don't think I would be happy with someone who took pride in doing the dishes...It just isn't that big of a deal.

So it all begins and ends with you.



RCdc -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 3:51:39 PM)

In response to the scenario itself, if I was faced with that situation - whether partner or friend, I would seek medical attention for them.  My initial reaction is that it shouts of depression, particularly if the person does not have a job.  But I know that isn't necessarily what you wanted a response on, but I think it relates, because someone who is depressed will not be getting out what they put in - at least not in their perception.  And no amount of micro management will assist.

quote:

My Question is do you ever feel that what you are putting in isn’t worth what you are getting out and what do you do to try and fix this issue? I would like opinions from both sides please.

 
In a relationship?  Right at this moment as it relates to my life?  No.  I never feel that.  But if I did -  and it could not be resolved due to lack of enthusiasm, then the relationship would end.
 
the.dark.



LadyPact -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 4:19:10 PM)

I will simply state that I have all that I need, and certainly more than I deserve.

May everyone be so happy.



kallisto -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 5:03:42 PM)

I always try and put in the relationship what I expect to get out of it.  I'm probably a little on the crazy side with my thinking.   I work outside the home, but thoroughly enjoy taking care of the house, cooking, etc.  It's quite theraputic for me.  But I've never had a problem with asking for help when I've felt overwhelmed or overworked.   I can see someone not wanting to do things they don't enjoy.  But we all have those tasks at one time or another.  

Putting in what I think it's worth is what I believe is making the relationship work.  No matter what kind of relationship it is.   If my Dom has laid down rules and expectations of me, then I need to put forth 100% all of the time.   Sure, there are times where I won't make the grade.  But if He sees me trying and knows I'm doing my best, then He's more likely to either help or be satisfied that I'm doing everything I can.   That's what I want to do - my best for Him.  Then in my mind, I'll get the best of Him.    But it doesn't just go with "doing the dishes or cleaning the bathroom".   It goes along with every aspect of our relationship.  



derfrewop -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 5:42:31 PM)

quote:

It's very tiring to be left feeling you owe a girl anything and especially so when this gets invisibly woven into the fabric of an LTR.


Being a Dom is hard work.
Being in a relationship is hard work.
It might be possible to think that as a participant in a long term relationship there is nothing owed. Unlikely but perhaps possible.

But it is much harder to think that, as the owner of a sub, there is no obligation. At the very least, there is the obligation to take up the responsibilities of the dominate. Which, in a nutshell, is to organize punishments and rewards so that both sides get what they need.

To say there is no obligation on the part of a Dom is impossible to distinguish from the sociopaths credo of "I take what I want and give nothing back".

As for the suggestion of letting her know how tired it makes him, it won't work. Either it is simply reinforcing the dynamic that she will get attention if she doesn't do the tasks or it is saying that he is tired of her. I would suggest that this is much more likely to cause disloyalty than anything I suggested.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: ~What you are getting and what that's worth.~ (3/21/2008 6:07:35 PM)

Is the issue here truly housework?  Do you have a situation where you each have a different definition of what is clean?  Or is the lady just overwhelmed due to depression or some other ailment?

If it's just housework, start a friggen chore chart the way you would with a kid---make the list, check them off, take a break in between tasks for an oreo.   Not everyone can handle an array of tasks in  an organized way.  If she is  in a depression, the act of getting up and putting on matching socks has essentially taken away what little decision process she can muster.  That she is displeasing you by not being able to perform a task that an alert eight year old can do....well, that's not helping.

If both parties are working  all day......well yanno?  Hire a fucking maid if the bathroom bugs you so much.  Or just live with the notion that Donna Reed only lives on TV.  I am the kind of person that can't go to bed if there are dishes in the sink.  If she is not one of those people, washing the dishes is not going to make her feel better. 

Are you truly feeling cheated because your sub is not doing enough housework?  Or is it something else?  What are you doing for HER that is as meaningful to her as menial chores are to you?



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