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RE: nervous as can be - 3/23/2008 3:22:21 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Not everyone who lives in a trailer, or shops at walmart are poor.  You are projecting and making assumptions onto him that it is about money.
 
I simply answered her questions and yes, I did indicate that I see other posts making unfounded assumptions and explained that I do not feel they are helpful to her in fact, I find them detrimental to her.
 
I am not here to usurp the OPs simple question by going through your interpretation on such limited information.  I simply find your assumptions wrong.
Yes, I think you are a snob and your thoughts are no different to those that you are projecting on someone who hasn't even posted.  But as I said before, being a snob isn't a bad thing in my world.
And Yes I disagree with your post.
That is all.
 
the.dark.

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: nervous as can be - 3/23/2008 3:25:30 PM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		*dusts of the.darks soapbox

*cheers and whoops


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(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: nervous as can be - 3/23/2008 8:41:22 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		the.dark's posts made a lot of sense to Me. Maybe He is acting a bit snobbish or at least being somewhat careless in what He has said. Maybe He has been burned many times by people who have tried to take advantage of His wealth ... maybe THEY are the people He is really referring to as "those people". It could be those who think the rich owe them a living in free handouts, and they do exist! He probably doesn't think of the OP as one of "those people" because she is not like that in her attitude, because she has worked hard for what she has and isn't trying to bleed Him dry. So then, it is also up to her to learn to submit to His willingness to be generous towards her. By refusing His offers, His money etc when He WANTS to give it ... she is topping Him. she is making decisions that counter His. He wants to give it BECAUSE she is not demanding it. I think that poor snobs exist also ... they are the ones that distrust that someone genuinely wants to give. I don't think the OP wants to be a poor snob ... and I accept that it can be very hard indeed to learn to receive. Some can't receive money, some can't receive compliments, some can't receive physical help and care. It's hard to learn. Often those who are willing to give are the least willing to receive ... I remind them that when they give to someone else, they would hate their gift to be poorly received ... so why do that to those who are trying to give to them? Learn to receive gracefully and graciously ... it's a wonderful life lesson!

I hope all went well!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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(in reply to colouredin)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: nervous as can be - 3/23/2008 9:29:44 PM   
hsagnev


Posts: 188
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline 		Hi HSB,

Yeah, I have experienced a relationship with large income differentials.  My experience was a little different (perhaps) since one person has a lot of disposable cash making the other feel awkward in many ways and situations as money is spent for recreation.  I feel these differences can be worked out though. It is a bit hard to infer the true meaning from the anecdotal comments about "those" people who must live cheap to get by. It's entirely possible that he's insensitive, yet not prejudice (or a snob). I definitely feel that he should have absolutely no problem whatsoever with your income, lifestyle and home you live in and that he SHOULD visit you and SEE your house. I say he's got to accept the FULL package. Personally, I'd bet that he really doesn't care about your income at all and that's a good thing.

That is just my worthless opinion.



DAvid

(in reply to hissweetbella)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: nervous as can be - 3/24/2008 6:03:06 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Not everyone who lives in a trailer, or shops at walmart are poor

You're right.  It's usually the wealthy who do that. 
quote:

You are projecting and making assumptions onto him that it is about money

Come on, dark.  I'm not projecting or making any more assumptions than anyone else here has.  I obviously don't know the man but all I know is the exact same information everyone else here read.  I said several times "IF" he really believes what it seems he does.  I don't think it was a big stretch to assume by calling folks "those people" that he was making a big distinction between himself and "them."  Since he is the one with money, I thought it was fair to assume he was referring to those without money. 
quote:

I did indicate that I see other posts making unfounded assumptions and explained that I do not feel they are helpful to her in fact, I find them detrimental to her.
I've said nothing detrimental to her.  I've been polite, kind and supportive to her.  Anything I said that could be seen as harsh towards him I have qualified by saying "maybe he just doesn't realize that 'those people' aren't so bad after all."  I never told her to give him an ultimatum or leave.  
quote:

I am not here to usurp the OPs simple question by going through your interpretation on such limited information
Fine.  I'm not attempting to "usurp" anything either.  She asked a simple question and it's gone through pages of others' interpretations, including your own.  I don't feel my response is somehow bad or wrong.  Isn't that being "snobbish" of you to say I should "mend my ways" and think differently just to match yours or anothers' view?
quote:

I simply find your assumptions wrong

That's fine and you're right.  I'm not assuming anything more than anyone else here has.  Again, I said "IF" this and "IF" that many times.  I find it wrong that no one else can see my point, apparently.  If someone had come here and said their dom referred to any racial or religious group as "those people," this thread would be 20 pages long by now with people blasting him and her for still being with him.  On those kinds of threads, no one cares who "assumes" what whether the guy posts or not.  They tear in.  I have never tried to ascribe motives to him.  I've said "IF" a dom I was with referred to any group as "those people" in the way his sub apparently felt he did, I couldn't respect that.
quote:

Yes, I think you are a snob and your thoughts are no different to those that you are projecting on someone who hasn't even posted.  But as I said before, being a snob isn't a bad thing in my world.
And Yes I disagree with your post.That is all

I may be a snob about some things (music, chocolate, etc.) but not against people just because of the money they do or do not have at their disposal.  I'm sorry you cannot at least see my point and that you seem irked that I would make it.  That's too bad.  That is all.................luci

< Message edited by slaveluci -- 3/24/2008 6:05:54 AM >

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(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: nervous as can be - 3/24/2008 6:04:15 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

*dusts of the.darks soapbox

*cheers and whoops


Could I ask what in particular you found so cheer and whoop-worthy about that?  You can't see my point, either?.......................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: nervous as can be - 3/24/2008 6:49:57 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

You're right.  It's usually the wealthy who do that. 


My question would be is, who really is the person clearly making automatic assumptions on this thread?  Just because you live in a trailer, or a council house does not automatically make you poor or on the poverty line.
quote:

 
Come on, dark.  I'm not projecting or making any more assumptions than anyone else here has. 

 
I never said you were, I simply stated that I thought that it wasn't helpful that some people did. 
 
quote:

I've said nothing detrimental to her.  I've been polite, kind and supportive to her.  Anything I said that could be seen as harsh towards him I have qualified by saying "maybe he just doesn't realize that 'those people' aren't so bad after all."  I never told her to give him an ultimatum or leave.  

 
Detrimental does not mean your not kind or supportive.  But I do find comments that place negative thoughts onto someone when they just have no basis detrimental.  There is no need to take anything so personally.  It was a general comment to a wide base - you are choosing to personalise it.
The only thing that has personal written on it is that I said that snobbery exists in all forms and I would call you a snob as well.  But as I have repeated, snobbery is not always a bad thing.

quote:

Isn't that being "snobbish" of you to say I should "mend my ways" and think differently just to match yours or anothers' view?


Let us get to the facts and make them straight.  I never told you you should mend your ways.  They are your ways and they rock - for you.  You are the one deciding someone you have never met, only read a brief summary of, should mend their ways, because they are of 'this ilk'.  Not once did I suggest you change, or alter your opinion.
I did say I consider you are a snob.  I am a snob too over certain things - including those that shop at walmart - but why am I a snob?  Because I think that most people that shop at walmart and such places are disingenuous of local traders, and fair trade ethics.  That's nothing to do with how poor they are or how rich - so how do we know that he didn't mean that?  We don't.  But it is another option.  I'm far from well off being a single parent on a low income from a traditional working class, east end, council house background, but I uphold my integrity by shopping at chariety stores or attend my local market closer at the end when their prices drop instead of only at walmart and such places.  I am saying that only communicating to the man will she discover his intention and reasons for saying such a thing.  Second guessing sucks.
 
The moment you place yourself better than anyone else by demeaning someone into a catagory you disagree with, whether racists, elitist - or 'insertwhateverhere' -  is the moment you become them.
Ultimately - it means everyone is unequally-equal.  Snobbery rules!
 
This is my last comment to you luci on this subject, as this OP isn't about you, but about a specific question on different backgrounds co-existing.
 
the.dark.


< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 3/24/2008 6:54:07 AM >

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RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: nervous as can be - 3/24/2008 7:34:26 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Great thread, wonderful exchange of points of view, thanks to all. It's made me reconsider my own assumptions, often kneejerk , conditioned ones. I especially appreciate Darcy's reminder that people are not to be "changed", only accepted as they are. The choice, then, becomes whether or not one chooses to associate with them. I was also struck by dark's thoughts on the nature and varieties of submission. Great stuff. Thanks

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: nervous as can be - 3/24/2008 10:49:55 AM   
giveeverything


Posts: 348
Joined: 9/4/2007
Status: offline 		slaveluci.... I'm with you on this.  Of course, that's coupled with a lot of "if's" and things that need further explaination.  Here in the US we like to think we're a classless society (HA!).  And these kinds of careless words affect how we interact with people, how we perceive ourselves and how others perceive themselves and us.  It can be inexperience and ignorance and that is okay.  Along with that there has to be a level of self exploration and actualization to see how you might be biased in viewing the world.  I've had similar experiences where I, like the OP did, say, "hey that's me you're talking about" and for the most part it's been a pivitol moment in mine and the other person's relationship (almost always for the better).  I've also been called on my shit and really had to think about my ideas and biases.  That's life. 

A side note.  I think it's interesting that people talk a lot of about the culture of poverty (in the US andway) and rearely do we address the culture of wealth, which can include unearned money, status, and priviledge.  I like that people are talkign about it openly here.... I will tell you that I have a hard time feeling sympathy that some people with money feel like they've been used.  How much are workers being used?  What does it feel like to be working your ass off in the service industry -- washign, cleanign, servicing people -- who have such a different relationship to money than you do?  These are big big questions.  Not easily answered and have the ability to make people feel defensive (hell, I feel a bit defensive).

(in reply to slaveluci)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: nervous as can be - 3/24/2008 11:53:13 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		I think Level put it nicely...if he is a good man, then he won't care because he knows how hard you work and he knows what you have and have not been through.  If he is not a good man and he wants to look down upon you for where you live and what you have been able to afford and not afford, then it may be better to find out now.

You yourself made a critical point when you noted that you feel that you should not be ashamed of what you have worked hard to have.  That is the most telling point right there...if you know you have worked hard for it, if you know that you have done what you can with what you have, then there is no need to be ashamed and only you can allow him to make you feel that way because his criticism of it would be wrong, would it not?

(in reply to hissweetbella)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: nervous as can be - 3/25/2008 4:26:05 AM   
hissweetbella


Posts: 52
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline 		Just an update, as a couple of people had asked throughout the thread what happened.  Sir wasn't able to come after all.  All that worry for nothing.  Thank you all for your support and encouragement.  Seeing as he hardly ever gets over my way in his business, i doubt i'll have to confront this again for a long time.  Sad, in a way, because i had finally gotten to the point where i was looking forward to him visiting me.  Again, that you all for your contribution to the thread.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: nervous as can be - 3/25/2008 6:29:31 AM   
cjan


Posts: 3513
Joined: 2/21/2008
Status: offline 		Open question re an exchange going on in this discussion:
Considering the definition of the word "snob", rather than a subjective definition, when is being a snob iny way a "good" thing ?

quote:

snob, guilty of snobbery, is a person that adopts the world-view that other people are inherently inferior for any one of a variety of reasons including supposed intellect, wealth, education, ancestry, etc. A snob imitates the manners, adopts the world-view and affects the lifestyle of a social class of people to which he or she either belongs or aspires. That "right" is not necessarily a birth-right: a Pseudo-intellectual is a type of snob.


Emphasis in the definition is mine.

< Message edited by cjan -- 3/25/2008 6:30:59 AM >

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"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

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Profile   Post #: 72
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