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Cheney: My Hero! - 3/25/2008 10:28:01 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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Cheney On Two-Thirds Of The American Public Opposing The Iraq War: ‘So?’ [Video]
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/19/cheney-poll-iraq/

CHENEY: On the security front, I think there’s a general consensus that we’ve made major progress, that the surge has worked. That’s been a major success.

RADDATZ: Two-third of Americans say it’s not worth fighting.

CHENEY: So?

RADDATZ So? You don’t care what the American people think?

CHENEY: No. I think you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls.

-----

Cheney On 4,000 Troop Deaths In Iraq: ‘The President Carries The Biggest Burden, Obviously’ [Video]
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/24/cheney-burden/

Cheney: The president carries the biggest burden, obviously. He’s the one who has to make the decision to commit young Americans, but we are fortunate to have a group of men and women, the all-volunteer force, who voluntarily put on the uniform and go in harm’s way for the rest of us.

-----

Cheney's Five Draft Deferments During the Vietnam Era Emerge as a Campaign Issue
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/01/politics/campaign/01CHEN.html?ex=1398830400&en=1c0259e620183dd6&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

Eventually, like 16 million other young men of that era, Mr. Cheney sought deferments. By the time he turned 26 in January 1967 and was no longer eligible for the draft, he had asked for and received five deferments, four because he was a student and one for being a new father.

-----

What's not to love?

Everything about him.
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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/25/2008 10:59:37 PM   
TheHeretic


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       But, but, but...  I thought our civil liberties had been destroyed...  Why didn't Cheney just throw this impudent reporter in Gitmo?  Or simply shoot him in the face?

      I wonder what the public opinion polls would have said about WWII.  Should we have retreated back to England instead of fighting the Battle of the Bulge?

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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/25/2008 11:36:48 PM   
SugarMyChurro


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Still connecting 9/11 with Iraq, TheHeretic? How sad...



You fail it!

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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 2:55:06 AM   
Level


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There are times I would like to use the VP as a pinata.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 3:21:32 AM   
farglebargle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

       But, but, but...  I thought our civil liberties had been destroyed...  Why didn't Cheney just throw this impudent reporter in Gitmo?  Or simply shoot him in the face?


Why bother?

It's not like we have any sort of "Free Press" which would challenge him.

The "journalist" doesn't have THE BALLS to ask the simple follow up question:

"Here's a graph of what The People think of your performance, see where the graph falls off the cliff, and remains at 20%? You called this pathetic performance "fluctuations in the public opinion polls". Coupled with the overwhelming asskicking y'all got in 2006, are you dissociated from reality, or just a Lying Evil Fuck? Oh, yeah, you're what I call a "Criminal At Large", and I wonder why Cheney's walking free while the DOJ is busting people who smoked dope in the 70's and are seeing hookers...

Argh. We are nothing but Subjects folks.... Enjoy the Bread and Circuses...



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 3/26/2008 3:22:20 AM >


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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 3:24:54 AM   
pahunkboy


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Cheney is irrelevant  in 2008.

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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 3:40:42 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

There are times I would like to use the VP as a pinata.


LOL...there is lawyer in Texas who wants the first swing...

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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 3:48:34 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

There are times I would like to use the VP as a pinata.


LOL...there is lawyer in Texas who wants the first swing...



Yeah, but I bet he waits till hunting season is not in session.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 5:03:30 AM   
aviinterra


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People like him should be forced to work on minimum wage in the center of Detroit during the night shift for ten years. That will get all these stupid ideas of superiority out of his head.

However, my concern is that such a statement can be made so brazingly by one of our 'leaders' and it is not a sensation in the news, that people are not at least talking, or- for shock of the idea- revolting or clamouring for a change. The old Soviets must envy Cheney and the U.S. govt., for it is America who has done what the Soviets always dreamed of- complete control of a passive and increasingly stupid population, who waves the flag and has forgotten what it stands for.

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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 5:15:18 AM   
slavebianca


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Last week the headlines read "Cheney heads to middle east to push for peace" Thats so vile it's not even funny. Of course just like everything here in
bizarro amerika it was the opposite of the truth as exposed by his not so successful trip to saudi arabia where he was pushing for war with Iran.



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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 6:12:01 AM   
Sanity


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Cheney's right when he says that we can't govern by public opinion polls.

Reason being, public opinion fluctuates so wildly that all our policies would be like kites without strings.

< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/26/2008 6:13:21 AM >


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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 6:12:10 AM   
kittinSol


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I wish Cheney was sent over to England to do an intensive course of forced interviews with Jeremy Paxman. It would make for great entertainment, and the retributive justice factor wouldn't go amiss on quite a few of us (Heretic excluded, obviously ).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCo7qbzEX3c&feature=related

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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 6:55:06 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Cheney's right when he says that we can't govern by public opinion polls.

Reason being, public opinion fluctuates so wildly that all our policies would be like kites without strings.


Sanity:
You appear to be saying that the people are really too stupid to govern themselves.
You appear to be saying that democracy sux.
You appear to be all in favor of a dictatorship while giving "lip service" to our republican form of government.
Why do you continue to live here if you are so enamored of a dictatorship?
thompson
 
 



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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 8:57:16 AM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      But, but, but...  I thought our civil liberties had been destroyed...  Why didn't Cheney just throw this impudent reporter in Gitmo?  Or simply shoot him in the face?

     I wonder what the public opinion polls would have said about WWII.  Should we have retreated back to England instead of fighting the Battle of the Bulge?


Be, Be, Be cuz they granted themselves imunity and they think they are above the law!

This isnt wwii, in ww2 there was no ficticious enemy, and OBL is no adolf hitler.




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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 11:08:02 AM   
Sanity


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Your way, which is just mob rule, would lead to government-sponsored public lynchings of any and all suspected members of whichever group fell out of favor at any given moment. Muslims, Gays, Blacks, Hispanics, Japanese, Socialists, Conservatives... might all get their turn at slow torturous deaths.

This has never been a democracy, for that very reason. Mob rule does suck - could it be that Dick Cheney is smarter than you because he's well aware of that, while you aren't?

Public opinion is fickle, that's why we elect leaders (and always have).


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Cheney's right when he says that we can't govern by public opinion polls.

Reason being, public opinion fluctuates so wildly that all our policies would be like kites without strings.


Sanity:
You appear to be saying that the people are really too stupid to govern themselves.
You appear to be saying that democracy sux.
You appear to be all in favor of a dictatorship while giving "lip service" to our republican form of government.
Why do you continue to live here if you are so enamored of a dictatorship?
thompson
 
 





< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/26/2008 12:04:15 PM >


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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 1:51:42 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SugarMyChurro

Cheney's Five Draft Deferments During the Vietnam Era Emerge as a Campaign Issue
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/01/politics/campaign/01CHEN.html?ex=1398830400&en=1c0259e620183dd6&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

Eventually, like 16 million other young men of that era, Mr. Cheney sought deferments. By the time he turned 26 in January 1967 and was no longer eligible for the draft, he had asked for and received five deferments, four because he was a student and one for being a new father.



Don't you just love cowards. They haven't got the balls to fight themselves but by god, they got the balls to send other people to fight on their behalf.

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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 3:27:12 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Cheney's right when he says that we can't govern by public opinion polls.

Reason being, public opinion fluctuates so wildly that all our policies would be like kites without strings.


Some valid points there, Sanity, but if he could just not be so arrogant, that might help.
 
"So?" isn't an answer I like seeing from our leaders.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 3:37:06 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

CHENEY: No. I think you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls.

As undemocratic as it may sound, Cheney does have a point.

In late 1967, the United States arguably was winning the Vietnam conflict.  The massive bombing campaigns of North Vietnam during 1966/67 had devastated that nation's economy, straining its ability to support military and insurgency operations in South Vietnam:

quote:

By 1966-1967, however, after the infliction of massive casualties by the allies, stalemate on the battlefield, the destruction of the northern economy by U.S. air power, there was a dawning realization that, if current trends continued, Hanoi would eventually lack the resources necessary to affect the military situation in the South. As a result, there were more strident calls by the moderates for negotiations and a revision of strategy. They felt that a return to guerrilla tactics was more appropriate since the U.S. could not be defeated conventionally. They also complained that the policy of rejecting negotiations was in error.  The Americans could only be worn down in a war of wills during a period of "fighting while talking." During 1967 things had become so bad on the battlefield that Le Duan had to order Thanh to incorporate aspects of protracted guerrilla warfare into his strategy.

The North Vietnamese gambled in January 1968 on sparking a mass uprising and general overthrow of the South Vietnamese government with the Tet Offensive.  Beginning on 30 January 1968, North Vietnamese forces attacked targets across South Vietnam, hoping to capitalize on the apparent unpopularity of the South Vietnamese government.  By most classic measures of the military success, the Tet Offensive was a total defeat for the North Vietnamese:

quote:

The leadership in Hanoi must have been initially despondent about the outcome of their great gamble.  Their first and most ambitious goal, producing a general uprising, had ended in a dismal failure. In total, approximately 85,000-100,000 NLF and PAVN troops had participated in the initial onslaught and in the follow-up phases. Overall, during the "Border Battles" of 1967 and the nine-month winter-spring campaign, 75,000-85,000 NLF and PAVN troops had been killed in action.

Media coverage of the Tet Offensive, produced a much different perception in the United States:

quote:

The Tet Offensive created a crisis within the Johnson administration, which became increasingly unable to convince the American public that it had been a major defeat for the communists. The optimistic assessments made prior to the offensive by the administration and the Pentagon came under heavy criticism and ridicule as the "credibility gap" that had opened in 1967 widened into a chasm.

While it would be foolhardy to argue with certainty that ignoring the shift in public opinion and escalating troop levels in Vietnam ("surge" perhaps?)  would have produced a dramatically different outcome and potentially success for the United States in Vietnam, the possibility cannot be discounted.  While North Vietnam lost the military battle of Tet, the political/diplomatic aspects were a clear victory for North Vietnam, based upon the reaction of the American public to news footage of the offensive.

Public opinion should be used to set government policy and to guide evolutions in government policy.  Public opinion is a most dangerous vehicle for crafting and executing even the broadest military strategy.



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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 3:57:27 PM   
TracyTaken


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

You appear to be saying that the people are really too stupid to govern themselves.
You appear to be saying that democracy sux.
You appear to be all in favor of a dictatorship while giving "lip service" to our republican form of government.


Actually, I think our republican form of government was created because people were proving to be too stupid to govern themselves.  Articles of Confederation - the failed experiment in democracy, all that stuff. 

 




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RE: Cheney: My Hero! - 3/26/2008 4:00:39 PM   
Vendaval


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How about sending him to the front lines without any special treatment and no personal security force?
Oh yeah, and the faulty armour for both his body and the transport trucks. 
 

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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