RE: Learn english or go to jail

RE: Learn english or go to jail (Full Version)

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AquaticSub -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:13:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub How on earth is that possibly a shame? Knowing more than one language is better mentally and makes you more hirable! BTW, her post never said she refused to learn it or that her parents refused to teach it. Just that she didn't learn it first. I had a friend who spoke German before speaking English simply because she heard it more as a toddler, but no one was refusing to teach her English. She was quite fluent in English as a young child. It all goes back to what I said about the other "immigrants" that come here wishing to BE American. Americans speak english, or at least an Americanized version of it (so there's no hair-splitting). Teaching another language first is, to me, disrespectful and sounds more like something an illegal alien would do rather than someone wishing to assimilate and become an American. Fortunately, you don't get a bigger say in what is disrespectful to America than I do and I think that is BS. Maybe we can just cancel each other out. I think it's good parenting - teach the child the lanuage you are fluent in so you can communicate effectively, then give a shit about the rest of the world. Be it Spanish, English, French or Sign Lanuage (American or otherwise) the most important thing is that the child be able to talk to their parents. Besides, plenty of other countries have many languages. Time to get over ourselves and realize we have never been a one-language country. Or would you consider learning one of the Native American languages disrespectful too?

domahpet -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:15:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 It all goes back to what I said about the other "immigrants" that come here wishing to BE American. Americans speak english, or at least an Americanized version of it (so there's no hair-splitting). Teaching another language first is, to me, disrespectful and sounds more like something an illegal alien would do rather than someone wishing to assimilate and become an American. you said you wished you were part native american. id be so happy to take you to my reservation to meet a few of my cousins right about now. oh boy would i [:D]

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:17:58 PM)
quote: slaveboy4you: There are adults who were born in this country who can't read or write,should we deport them? Since there is no national language nor any legal requirement to speak English what is your justification for your position? thompson I never said they said they should be deported because they don't speak English. I said they should be deported for comitting a violent felony, which they did. Level pointed out something I missed in that they are resident aliens. Well, they are still aliens. They decided to rob someone and used violence in the course of that robbery. So why are they allowed to stay here? Pay attention next time thompsonx.

AquaticSub -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:18:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domahpet quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 It all goes back to what I said about the other "immigrants" that come here wishing to BE American. Americans speak english, or at least an Americanized version of it (so there's no hair-splitting). Teaching another language first is, to me, disrespectful and sounds more like something an illegal alien would do rather than someone wishing to assimilate and become an American. you said you wished you were part native american. id be so happy to take you to my reservation to meet a few of my cousins right about now. oh boy would i [:D] I'll drive. So if all immigrants should learn the native language of the country they are going to, which one do you think we should be speaking right now? I'm voting one of the Virginia tribes (I can't remember the proper names right now, sorry!).

domahpet -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:21:20 PM)
[sm=flowers.gif]you can drive my race car, i finally got it out of the shop- vavarooooooom!

Smith117 -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:21:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domahpet "a slap in the face of America" what are you smoking? you do realize dont you that this entire continent is "America"? and i do have a clue as to your race, your profile states caucasian. Ahh the cuteness continues. And here I thought this was going to be a grown-up discussion. Ah well. Let me de-split a hair or two for you hmm? UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AMERICAN. Clear? quote: ORIGINAL: domahpet do i seem somehow to not have a grasp of the english language? I don't know, I don't know what your expertise is. However, as caucasian was the closest one in the list that fit, that's what I chose. However, I would like to point out the following: Caucasian: Anthropology. Of or being a human racial classification distinguished especially by very light to brown skin pigmentation and straight to wavy or curly hair, and including peoples indigenous to Europe, northern Africa, western Asia, and India. Wow....caucasian seems to have a pretty broad scope, doesn't it? quote: ORIGINAL: domahpet i honestly have only ever been to puerto valarta, but i can guess that if you did decide to visit a smaller town, the people there would at least be polite to you, wether or not you spoke spanish. I assume you mean when they aren't trying to kidnap me for ransom so I will refrain from splitting hairs here. quote: ORIGINAL: domahpet the true shame is poeple who dont have a homeland and use being American to back up their bigotry. No, the TRUE shame is when one group of people fails to realize that another made a country their 'homeland' willingly, legally, and fully when they attack how they "have no homeland." It's afurther shame when someone who appears to support the breaking of said country's laws and then calls those who have a problem with it a bigot. I've made no bigotous claims here tonight. I said I welcome all immigrants to this nation of immigrants. But to immigrate, one must IMMIGRATE. That is, they must join that country. They must call it home and treat it as such. They must assimilate and too many do not. They come for their "better life" and then they export that better life to those in there "real homes" while they live here in squalor condidions. quote: ORIGINAL: domahpet do you realise how stupid people sound when they call themselves American? if you say that in Mexico, the Mexican youre talking to will say, "so am I". No, I don't think it sounds "stupid" when an entire country has adopted a phrase to reference themselves, regardless of what others of another country think. Besides....go to Europe and ask about Americans. They'll know who you're referring to. YOU might think that American can apply to "anyone." But it really doesn't. I dare you to call a columbian an American. Or call Hugo Chavez an American. I'm sure he'll love that. No, I don't think it sounds any stupider than someone who's been in this country for 35 years and still needs a translator. But that's just my opinion.

Smith117 -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:25:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Fortunately, you don't get a bigger say in what is disrespectful to America than I do and I think that is BS. Maybe we can just cancel each other out. I think it's good parenting - teach the child the lanuage you are fluent in so you can communicate effectively, then give a shit about the rest of the world. Be it Spanish, English, French or Sign Lanuage (American or otherwise) the most important thing is that the child be able to talk to their parents. Besides, plenty of other countries have many languages. Time to get over ourselves and realize we have never been a one-language country. Or would you consider learning one of the Native American languages disrespectful too? Do I get a 'bigger say'? No. But I don't get a lesser one either. And I, for one, am sick of hearing the argument "They came here for a better life" only to find out that they are financing that "better life" back in mexico. And I think by teaching a child a non-english language first, you are setting them behind their peers and giving them a bad educational start, not to mention being totally against what I've already said about assimilating into the country they wanted so 'desperately' to be part of that they'd sneak in here illegally.

Smith117 -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:26:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domahpet you said you wished you were part native american. id be so happy to take you to my reservation to meet a few of my cousins right about now. oh boy would i [:D] And let me take one "little" guess about what you'd have in store for me there. "Typical." Also, as a point of clarification, I said I was "told" I had indian in me, and that I wasn't sure which kind it was. Don't believe I ever used the word "wish."

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:27:17 PM)
quote: do you realise how stupid people sound when they call themselves American? if you say that in Mexico, the Mexican youre talking to will say, "so am I". Yeah, they call us "norteamericanos", which is also kind of silly. Mexico is in North America, as is the entirety of Central America.

AquaticSub -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:27:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub Fortunately, you don't get a bigger say in what is disrespectful to America than I do and I think that is BS. Maybe we can just cancel each other out. I think it's good parenting - teach the child the lanuage you are fluent in so you can communicate effectively, then give a shit about the rest of the world. Be it Spanish, English, French or Sign Lanuage (American or otherwise) the most important thing is that the child be able to talk to their parents. Besides, plenty of other countries have many languages. Time to get over ourselves and realize we have never been a one-language country. Or would you consider learning one of the Native American languages disrespectful too? Do I get a 'bigger say'? No. But I don't get a lesser one either. And I, for one, am sick of hearing the argument "They came here for a better life" only to find out that they are financing that "better life" back in mexico. And I think by teaching a child a non-english language first, you are setting them behind their peers and giving them a bad educational start, not to mention being totally against what I've already said about assimilating into the country they wanted so 'desperately' to be part of that they'd sneak in here illegally. You missed the memo. America decided we don't want to assimilate people anymore - we aren't the Borg. We are no longer the melting pot, we are the salad. One dish with lots of different flavors. BTW, this is the message being taught currently in the school system approved by the government. I know those parents are giving them an edge. I'm starting to look for work now and I tell ya... I'd trade being behind a few years when I was child and catching up for the competive edge and the pay increase of being able to speak two languages.

domahpet -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:28:21 PM)
good luck with that outlook. im sure youll go far and make lots of very interesting friends with it. hey aquatic- lets go for a drive![;)]

AquaticSub -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:31:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domahpet hey aquatic- lets go for a drive![;)] Can we stop and get some Indian? I'm starving...

Smith117 -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:31:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub I'll drive. So if all immigrants should learn the native language of the country they are going to, which one do you think we should be speaking right now? I'm voting one of the Virginia tribes (I can't remember the proper names right now, sorry!). I've addressed this in another thread. So I'll paste it here: quote: domahpet where are your parents from? are you 100% native american? maybe you should go wherever theyre from? just because you were born here..... This is an increasingly ridiculous argument to use in this debate. We (european settlers) came here, we fought with the natives, we made deals with the natives, we fucked over some of them (manhattan for a handful of beads........"how"). Regardless, of how we obtained it, we took ownership of this country. We didn't "sneak in" and try and assimilate into native american society, we brought our own. Right or wrong, that's what happened. We didn't sneak in here and live on the native american govenerment's dime while demanding we had a right to be here because we snuck in. We came in and took it, bought it, stole it, whatever. The "maybe you should go home unless you're native american" argument is ridiculous. This is our country. The settlers may have gotten it in a fucked up manner.....go complain to them. I had nothing to do with it. My ancestors came over in the 30's (I think) and came through Ellis island like the rest, with papers. My great-grand parents were full-blooded german and came here and made lives for their familes, many of whom enlisted in the US military and fought against their parents' former countrymen.

domahpet -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:32:37 PM)
lol! feather or dot??? dammit there goes my pepsi![:D]

slaveboyforyou -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:33:01 PM)
quote: could it have anything to do with the fact that im not caucasian? You sure look part caucasian. Hispanics are not the only inhabitants of the Americas with native ancestors. You'll find that many of us Anglos have them too, but most of us don't make a point to completely ignore our European ancestors in order to take refuge as a victimized, oppressed minority.

AquaticSub -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:36:14 PM)
Paranoid much? Not to mention your point is easily used against you. If they are trying to take over, if it doesn't matter how we got it (and lying is pretty sneaky), it doesn't matter how they are planning to do it. Plus, this country doesn't even have an offical language!

DomKen -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:37:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 Tell me something, since you appear quite indignant about the mexican race, despite your claim of being born 'here,' .....if I picked a rural neighborhood at random in mexico and went there.....how many people would be speaking to me in english? I ask because here there are groups who consider it a crying shame that a school can't teach a hispanic child in spanish. How many places in mexico would cater to me if I didn't speak english? (And you can't name resort towns like Cancun and Cozamel.....that's too easy) I've got a lot to say on this. You've clearly never traveled in Mexico. I've never encountered anything but friendly people quite willing to accomodate my lack of Spanish. There are plenty of places in Mexico where US citizens have retired with a small nest egg to take advantage of the lower cost of living and the warmer climate. From all accounts they have no problems. As to domahpet's background, she's telling you her ancestors were here before Colombus as were some of mine. Settler's stole their land and tried to wipe them out in ways sufficient to disgust anyone and now you're saying they should be forced to abandon their own tongues so their children will speak English as if they don't all learn it anyway. It is wise of you to remember that virtually the entire land mass of the lower 48 states is only US soil by ignoring the treaties the US signed and broke with those nations. I'm sure my relatives would gladly trade dustbowl OK for the northern half of GA, AL, most of TN and a substantial portion of the Carolinas which was stolen from them with out even the pretense of a valid treaty.

AquaticSub -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:38:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domahpet lol! feather or dot??? dammit there goes my pepsi![:D] I was thinking Indian from India. Athough, now that I think about it, I haven't had "offical" Native American foods - just what has made it into "American" food. Like popcorn!

Smith117 -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:39:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domahpet good luck with that outlook. im sure youll go far and make lots of very interesting friends with it. Funny you should mention that. I've always been the type to have a small group of close friends, and only ONE "best" friend. Of my group of friends, only one good friend and my BEST friend are local. My best friend of 16 years is a mutt like me. My only 'local' "good friend" is..... wait for it..... this will shock your own sensibilities..... she's mexican. [sm=biggrin.gif] Of course she says "American of mexican decent" and it's one of our funny lil back and forth things. I'll ask her a question about mexican tradition and she'll say "how the hell should I know?" And I reply "because.....you.......you're mexican!" And retorts "I am AMERICAN of mexican decent!!! I didn't even learn spanish until a few years ago!!!" It's really quite funny. As a matter of fact, that's how all of our lil group is. She had me over for a party one night, and I was the only white guy there. The rest were hispanic and there was one black girl. We started trading stories of getting pulled over and I mentioned getting pulled from my car during a stop. The black girl chimed in "Why'd they stop you?" And I just looked at her and said "They thought I was black." Everyone, including her, started cracking up. For my friends and I, immigration and all isn't about race. It's about laws and doing things right. That's why my friends know I'm not a bigot or a racist. We have differing views on some things, but they know where I stand and respect my views as I do theirs. At the close of this I will say one thing. Most bills being passed here about "illegial aliens" and such.....they clearly say "illegal aliens" in the bills' text. Yet the largest and most vocal group I see whining about being called criminals are the hispanics. Do hispanics really think they are the only ones seeking a 'better life' in this country? How presumptuous.

DomKen -> RE: Learn english or go to jail (3/27/2008 9:40:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Smith117 We didn't sneak in here and live on the native american govenerment's dime while demanding we had a right to be here because we snuck in. You best learn some history. Specifically Jamestown and Massachusett Bay Colony history.

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